Glocks and things like kabooms, firing out of battery, etc...

[Tempest455]

Have similar problems ever been reported using cheap ammo and Beretta's?

[Urse]

Yep Any gun can have this problem.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-EvhL3k-1o[/ame]

[Marswolf]

Have similar problems ever been reported using cheap ammo and Beretta's?

I'm sure they have, but I can say that I have shot SMG ammo in my Beretta 92SB with no problem. I won't advise doing that, but the gun stayed together.

[molonlabetn]

There were some slide problems with a certain run of Beretta 92F pistols having metallurgical flaws which resulted in quite a number of slide separations in conjunction with hot ammo... hence the subsequent 92FS line, (Safe) which had a new locking block, and slide-block design (among a few other minor changes). I haven't heard of the earlier 92SB models having any such problems.

[Guest Fred LE FI]

Just another Glock religionist trying to ignore the gun's obvious faults and deny reality.

Are you just stirring things up or are you really a dolt?

Fred

[The Rabbi]

Guys, it's a pistol. It isn't someone's wife, girlfriend or daughter. You won't get to Heaven faster or slower if you have one or dont. It's a gun. No point name-calling or denigrating each other over it. Thats truly dumb.

And anyway real guns have cylinders.....

[towerclimber37]

hahahahahah

Rabbis' got a point.

Fred, make nice nice with the other humans

Shannon, I'm a confirmed Browning religionist..everyone has their own way to salvation (or in my case, salivation! must.have.another.browning...)

[Urse]

Guys, it's a pistol. It isn't someone's wife, girlfriend or daughter. You won't get to Heaven faster or slower if you have one or dont.

Actually you might get to heaven faster if you need it and don't have it.

And anyway real guns have cylinders.....

How about this one Rabbi?

[The Rabbi]

That's nice, Urse. Is that your new concealed carry weapon?

How about this gem,

[The Rabbi]

And here's the comment on it, truer words never spoken:

That looks like the unholy offspring of a Ruger revolver and a Hammerli target pistol. The Ruger must have "had it's way" with the Hammerli after the Hammerli had a few too many drinks.

[Marswolf]

Are you just stirring things up or are you really a dolt?

Some dolts think I'm a dolt.

I'm actually as critical of the guns I carry as the ones I don't.

[DavidD]

I understand the unsupported chamber, but what exactly is "Firing out of battery"?

Dave

[The Rabbi]

Slide isnt all the way forward when it fires.

A CZ-52 will do the same. Oops.

[Marswolf]

Technically, "out of battery" just means that the gun - whether a handgun or a cannon - is not in condition to fire. As Rabbi said, for our purpose it means that the breech has not completed its forward travel.

If the gun fires before the breech is closed, that means that the round has not been placed fully into the chamber and thus gives a weak area than may rupture when the gun is fired. That is bad.

[towerclimber37]

Slide isnt all the way forward when it fires.

A CZ-52 will do the same. Oops.

Rab, I thought that the rolling block dealie in a '52 kept it from doing that!

sheesh...and here I thought it was a great pistol. *sigh*

[K191145]

A few months ago I traded in my full size Kimber 1911 for a Glock 21SF. Now I would have kept my Kimber but it was a $$ issue, I loved to shoot the Kimber, it was the most accurate handgun I have ever had but I hardly carried it. The reason I wanted the Glock soo bad was because of their reputation for reliability. Frankly, I couldn't trust the Kimber not to malfunction on me,(not going into full battery at times), Now it was reliable if I kept it wet with oil, fired quality factory hollow points but the occasions where it did fail didn't give me full confidence in it as a carry weapon, I know I could have gotten it tweaked a little by a gunsmith. Also I never cared for grip safeties, in a stressful situation with a fast draw one may not get the perfect grip and the SA trigger pull was too light for a stressful encounter IMO. I have had it double fire a couple of times because of the recoil and light SA trigger. I wanted the Glock21 because 1st, 13 rounds of .45 instead of 8, 2nd, toughness and reliability, 3rd, a not soo light DA trigger with takeup, 4th, don't have to oil it every week weather I shoot it or not, 5th, still good accuracy although not as good as the Kimber.

I checked the chamber and it is fully supported, I have also been firing quite a few +P Honaday 230 grain HPs with no problem. That's what I keep it loaded with for carry now. I will not shoot re-manufactured ammo and I know not to shoot lead bullets out of it. I'm sure some will think I'm crazy or stupid for trading my Kimber for it but my motivation was practicality, I mean what good was the Kimber if I never carried it.

[towerclimber37]

yep, you're nuts!!

but I like your tag line

[Marswolf]

I'm sure some will think I'm crazy or stupid for trading my Kimber for it but my motivation was practicality, I mean what good was the Kimber if I never carried it.

I don't think you are crazy at all. While I like 1911s, I've never carried one for business, and that includes back before the military chose the Beretta M9. I chose to not carry any pistol in Vietnam, rather than carry a M1911. It gave me extra rounds for the M16 that I needed on a couple of occasions. Since then, I've been in a position where I can carry my own personal weapons.

The 1911 was nicknamed the jam-o-matic by military folks a long time ago. Good lubrication seems to be the secret of keeping them working. Grease works better than oil BTW.

[TGO David]

The 1911 was nicknamed the jam-o-matic by military folks a long time ago. Good lubrication seems to be the secret of keeping them working. Grease works better than oil BTW.

Nah... the 1911 works great if a competent smith goes through it and sets it up to be a workhorse rather than a showpiece. Kimber makes a decent enough starting point and most run well out of the box, but there's a reason why most SWAT teams and such have their 1911's fully worked over.

Were I in K191145's shoes, I would have had that firearm's chamber reamed to SAAMI specs and probably ditched the stock Kimber extractor for a Wilson Bulletproof extractor. Those two things would probably fixed a lot of the feed problems he experienced.

A 1911 set up as a fighting pistol will generally run as well as any Glock on the market and be just as receptive to abuse and neglect. No need to oil them to the point that they drip all over the place.

[molonlabetn]

I would bet that a good aftermarket, self-lubricating coating would be very beneficial to the reliability of a 1911. Few stock 1911s are both extrordinarily accurate and reliable, but are almost sure to be one or the other. I never felt under-equipped with one.

[The Rabbi]

You can make your Kimber or other 1911 shoot both more accurately AND more reliably by trading it for a SIG P220.

[TGO David]

I would bet that a good aftermarket, self-lubricating coating would be very beneficial to the reliability of a 1911. Few stock 1911s are both extrordinarily accurate and reliable, but are almost sure to be one or the other. I never felt under-equipped with one.

I've been using some new stuff lately that I really like a lot. It's called "Weapon Shield" and is available from Steel Shield Technologies. The proprietor is the guy who invented Shooter's Choice FP-10 when he worked for a previous employer.

He was (may still be) giving away free samples if you emailed him at gcfennell@steelshieldtech.com and requested it. I'm really impressed with the product and will be ordering some soon from one of the distributors.

I thought you guys would love some free product and I already got mine so here grab it while you can.

THR thread on it(alot of responses):

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=253758

Free 14 day offer - Weapon Shield CLP

Alot of you folks know me but I've been gone for the last 3 years. Most of you who do, know that I am the inventor of FP-10 and former Tech Director of MPC. That's all history. Without going into detail, I left MPC in the summer of 2004 via a hostile take over and formed Steel Shield Technologies, Inc. 2 years ago. I've been low profile due to legal reasons but thats all over as well. I'd like to give you some facts:

1. FP-10 is NOT my product anymore. When I left, things changed...and so did many of the products including the FP-10. In the last 2 years, many people have contacted me expressing their concerns that it "...didn't work like it used to". My only response was that I had no control over it or the company since '04 and assured everyone that there is an alternative that works even better than my old FP10 or any other product out there of the same or similar nature...that is "Steel Shield Weapon Shield CLP".

2. Not only did we bring back the past performance and quality of my original FP-10, but we took it to a new level, increasing it's corrosion protection even more as well as it's outstanding ability to lubricate and clean without the use of solvents, volatiles, along with being non-toxic and environmentally friendly.

So in order to prove and perpetuate the cause and demonstrate the "Weapon Shield CLP's" enormous abilities and claims, I will extend to the FIRING LINE, a free 2 week offer:

Just send us an email to gcfennell@steelshieldtech.com including your name and mailing address. I'll send you a free 1 oz bottle of "Weapon Shield" and YOU be the judge. This'll cost me but the return is worth every penny...and you all get to experiance the best of the best. That's my confidance level on "Weapon Shield" and the rest of our product line.

Once again, as before....I'll put my product where my mouth is for the next couple of weeks. All I ask in return is an honest posting and/or review of Steel Shield's "Weapon Shield".

Best regards

__________________

George C. Fennell, L.E.

Steel Shield Technologies, Inc.

President-Technical Division

http://www.steelshieldtech.com

gcfennell@steelshieldtech.com

[Guest Steelharp]

Pay no attention to Rabbi... he gets "SIG-ons"...

[TGO David]

I wouldn't kick a SIG 220 out of bed for eating crackers, that's for sure. The P220 Carry Elite Two-Tone makes me want to whip out a cloth diaper and start polishing a firearm just for Triggertime.

[The Rabbi]

I wouldn't kick a SIG 220 out of bed for eating crackers, that's for sure. The P220 Carry Elite Two-Tone makes me want to whip out a cloth diaper and start polishing a firearm just for Triggertime.

Makes me want to take it to the range and shoot it. Hmm....