Conservatives For Patients' Rights

[Guest CK1]

So, before any of you extreme right-wing wingnut/tin-foil hatters break out your gear to run down and ruin any intelligent discussion or debate at your local town hall meetings regarding health care reform, figured i'd give you a quick heads up so you can avoid looking stupid (or get busted up by the Unions who have announced to stand against you)...

FYI, Conservatives For Patients' Rights, the wonderful company that has been spending like crazy running false-truth/scare tactic/paranoia commercials in middle TN and other areas with "low education/high intolerance" communities in an aim to block heath care reform, and funding (oh, i mean "organizing") fake grassroots support for people to crash town hall meetings and disrupt the health care reform proceedings, may not be the picture of patriotism that you may have thought.

you see, CPR is a multimillion dollar, non-profit lobbying group founded and funded by former hospital executive Rick Scott. Scott was ousted as chief executive officer of the Columbia/Hospital Corporation of America in 1997, after the hospital chain was investigated for fraud. In a plea agreement, the company paid $1.7 billion to settle the charges.

Scott started CPR in March 2009, seeding the group with $5 million of his own money to "promote free-market health care reform solutions" and lobby against President Barack Obama's proposal for a government-run health care option.

Creative Response Concepts, a conservative public relations firm known for its 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' campaign during the 2004 presidential campaign, handles CPR's messaging.

their commercial "Squeeze" has been running nationally on CNN and Fox News, and is part of a $1.4 million buy that began July 15th despite the fact that although CPR lists individual sources for each statement in the ad, the facts are largely taken out of context, come from biased industry groups or have been discredited.

stopping, or getting in the way of meaningful health reform means you have chosen to be a part of causing or prolonging someone's suffering!

you can check my facts, just thought you'd like to know...

-and oh yeah... Police Departments, Fire Departments, and the U.S. Postal Service are all examples of things someone could call "Socialist" that are partly government run for the common good that work, and work well, so please spare me, or anyone else any overtly racist "Obama as the Joker" etc. type BS... you're not fooling anyone.

i pray none of you, or those you love gets sick and can't afford treatment.

remember, Jesus was a liberal, Hitler was a conservative.

seeing this unrestrained, overtly racist, right wing posturing on TGO every single time i take a look at this site gets infuriating... i see more "us versus them" than i see anything that resembles any political ideology and being a firearm enthusiast is NOT synonymous with these beliefs and just gives us all a bad name.

i know i could get thrown off this site for voicing these opinions (even though there's an amendment i believe that's BEFORE the 2nd amendment...) but i just don't really care. this "one-side being represented only" is getting out of control.

[Guest slothful1]

stopping, or getting the way of meaningful health reform means you have chosen to be a part of causing or prolonging someone's suffering!

Puh-leeze. Spare me the drama. At present, we have a bunch of scumbag private insurance companies that at least have to compete with each other. You want to replace that with ONE tax-funded scumbag organization that can do whatever it wants. Remember the old Lily Tomlin skit? "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company."

i pray none of you, or those you love gets sick and can't afford treatment.

My wife turns 28 today. She has had five open-heart surgeries (plus a number of more minor surgeries) and she will require another to replace a valve in 10-15 years. If Obama gets his way, I don't expect her to live much past 45. I don't require any Republican astroturfing to make me mad about that.

[56FordGuy]

So, before any of you extreme right-wing wingnut/tin-foil hatters break out your gear to run down and ruin any intelligent discussion or debate at your local town hall meetings regarding health care reform, figured i'd give you a quick heads up so you can avoid looking stupid (or get busted up by the Unions who have announced to stand against you)...

We can't ruin any local town hall meetings, because it seems like our elected representatives won't hold them. As for the Union folks, well...color me skeered.

FYI, Conservatives For Patients' Rights, the wonderful company that has been spending like crazy running false-truth/scare tactic/paranoia commercials in middle TN and other areas with "low education/high intolerance" communities in an aim to block heath care reform, and funding (oh, i mean "organizing") fake grassroots support for people to crash town hall meetings and disrupt the health care reform proceedings, may not be the picture of patriotism that you may have thought.

you see, CPR is a multimillion dollar, non-profit lobbying group founded and funded by former hospital executive Rick Scott. Scott was ousted as chief executive officer of the Columbia/Hospital Corporation of America in 1997, after the hospital chain was investigated for fraud. In a plea agreement, the company paid $1.7 billion to settle the charges.

Scott started CPR in March 2009, seeding the group with $5 million of his own money to "promote free-market health care reform solutions" and lobby against President Barack Obama's proposal for a government-run health care option.

Creative Response Concepts, a conservative public relations firm known for its 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' campaign during the 2004 presidential campaign, handles CPR's messaging.

their commercial "Squeeze" has been running nationally on CNN and Fox News, and is part of a $1.4 million buy that began July 15th despite the fact that although CPR lists individual sources for each statement in the ad, the facts are largely taken out of context, come from biased industry groups or have been discredited.

stopping, or getting in the way of meaningful health reform means you have chosen to be a part of causing or prolonging someone's suffering!

you can check my facts, just thought you'd like to know...

I haven't checked your facts, because I'm missing your point. A group is running commercials that challenge socialized medicine. It was, according to you, founded by a man that was the CEO of a company that was investigated for fraud. What does that have to do with our country heading down a socialist path?

-and oh yeah... Police Departments, Fire Departments, and the U.S. Postal Service are all examples of things someone could call "Socialist" that are partly government run for the common good that work, and work well, so please spare me, or anyone else any overtly racist "Obama as the Joker" etc. type BS... you're not fooling anyone.

The government's job is to do what the private industry can't. Fire and police departments fall under that category, in my opinion. I could do without the Post Office, and for being run well...of those three, only the USPS is run by the Federal government, and aren't they losing money and raising stamp prices again?

i pray none of you, or those you love gets sick and can't afford treatment.

Doesn't Medicare, or TennCare here in TN, cover those that legitimately can't afford treatment? Even then, you think that some bureaucrat 500 miles away knows what's better for your family's health than you do?

remember, Jesus was a liberal, Hitler was a conservative.

Hitler wanted the government to run pretty much everything to craft the 'perfect' race of people. To paraphrase what Jesus said, sell whatever you need to be able to get the tools to defend yourself. Care to explain yourself a bit more on this one?

seeing this unrestrained, overtly racist, right wing posturing on TGO every single time i take a look at this site gets infuriating...

Stop looking? Or, point out the racism? I've missed it. My problem is not with Barack Obama the man. It's with his policies. There's a difference.

i see more "us versus them" than i see anything that resembles any political ideology and being a firearm enthusiast is NOT synonymous with these beliefs and just gives us all a bad name.

It's this "let's all eat brownies and get along" mentality that will destroy our country. What if we had done that with Britain, or Hitler?

i know i could get thrown off this site for voicing these opinions (even though there's an amendment i believe that's BEFORE the 2nd amendment...) but i just don't really care. this "one-side being represented only" is getting out of control.

I doubt your opinions would get you tossed off here. Just for the record, though, no website really falls under the 1st Amendment. It's a private playground, where the owner makes the rules. If I don't want a person in my house, the freedom of assembly doesn't mean I can't throw them out. It's my house. The same goes for the internet. Users are guests on the administrators playground, both here and everywhere else.

Edited August 7, 2009 by 56FordGuy

[TripleDigitRide]

I sometimes wish I was 8-years-old again. Then, none of this *beep* would matter.

Maybe it shouldn't bother me to the point it does, but I am beyond sick and tired of political talk. It really sickens me to hear either side spew their BS anymore.

I should have known better than to click on this thread.

Carry On!

[Guest mikedwood]

I'm scared of the governements plan for one reason and one reason only. I use to be for universal health care, I really did. Makes no difference to me who I pay for my health care it costs about the same and is rising.

I don't like the amount of control it will give the govenment. I'm not exactly a tinfoil hatter but on somethings I'm not that far off.

I can see it now. Any food with over 10 grams of sugar is outlawed, any softdrinks, red meat. Maybe a card for each family and you can buy groceries from the government approved list with a certain allowable amount of calories per person.

It won't go that far Mike. You are most certainly a tinfoil hatter one might say.

But in the UK the red light cameras worked so well they installed cameras on darn near every street corner. To protect them from terrorists and only terrorists. You don't want the terrorists to get us do you? No, certainly not, no one wanted that. Those cameras haven't caught a terrorist yet but they use them to write tickets for littering and no poop scooping for your doggie.

That worked so well that the pilot program of putting cameras into the homes of troubles youth just concluded with 2,000 families. It worked so well they are adding 24/7 cameras installed into another 50,000 homes.

What does that have to do with health care? I hope we never find out.

[USMCJG]

I will say this again. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIBERAL ABOUT SOCIALISM. The far left wing defines themselves as LIBERAL, yet nearly all of their policies would be much more accurately described as AUTHORITARIAN.

Free market economics is LIBERAL.

Government control of huge sectors of the economy is AUTHORITARIAN.

Being free to express your opinions at a town hall meeting is LIBERAL.

Being accused of being part of some nefarious plot for stating your opinion at a civic function is AUTHORITARIAN.

Questioning authority and demanding answers before allowing some vague policy to be shoved down your throat is LIBERAL.

Blindly following someone else's policy just because they say it will be good for you without fully disclosing how so, well, that's just STUPID.

The biggest problem with socialized health care is that the government has ABSOLUTELY NO CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to do such a thing.

Standing up for the Constitution and the individual rights of free people is LIBERAL.

Taking the rights away from free people "for their own good" is AUTHORITARIAN.

Jesus was a Liberal, Hitler, Stalin, and Obama were/are Authoritarians.

[Mark@Sea]

Okay, let me come right out and admit it. I despise Obama because of his color. I will argue against his goals and policies because of his color. I will automatically assume a slanted viewpoint about everything he says, because of his color.

I can't help it, I never could stand Reds.

Original post has some facts, some inferences, couple of accusations made in very poor taste, and several statements that are exactly opposite the truth.

Rather than dissect them, which would "infuriate" someone, I have a few questions. Really easy questions.

By what constitutional authority does Obama propose to take control of healthcare in this country? Yes, I said healthcare. If the government controls the insurance, it certainly controls the healthcare.

What assurance have I that this is not a large first step toward a single-payer health system, such as the ones in Europe, Britain and Canada that are currently killing their citizens? Especially as noted democratic figures, including Obama himself, are on record as calling it a crucial first step toward such a system?

With a deficit three times (and growing rapidly) of the size of the deficit last year, vastly expanded over the Bush deficit that (according to our new president) was a grave danger to America and a matter of fierce urgency, why is doubling this (already tripled) deficit a sane idea?

How can closing presidential and congressional town-hall meetings to all except union supporters, guaranteeing that citizens with opposing viewpoints are not heard, be good for the democratic process?

How can anyone begin a post with warnings that union 'activists' are going to 'bust' on protestors, and end the same post with a complaint about their right to free speech?

Lastly, have you considered that the debate might possibly be so 'one sided' because a majority of Americans (according to Rasmussens' latest poll) are against government controlling their healthcare?

Edited August 7, 2009 by Mark@Sea

[USMCJG]

I sometimes wish I was 8-years-old again. Then, none of this *beep* would matter.

Maybe it shouldn't bother me to the point it does, but I am beyond sick and tired of political talk. It really sickens me to hear either side spew their BS anymore.

I should have known better than to click on this thread.

Carry On!

Honestly, I'm a bit sick of all the politics myself. But to quote Thomas Paine- "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777.

[Guest SUNTZU]

So, before any of you extreme right-wing wingnut/tin-foil hatters break out your gear to run down and ruin any intelligent discussion or debate at your local town hall meetings regarding health care reform, figured i'd give you a quick heads up so you can avoid looking stupid (or get busted up by the Unions who have announced to stand against you)...

Links to the unions that are going to be there, please. If they really want to start busting up people, I'll gladly be there to greet them.

[Guest 3pugguy]

So, before any of you extreme right-wing wingnut/tin-foil hatters break out your gear to run down and ruin any intelligent discussion or debate at your local town hall meetings regarding health care reform, figured i'd give you a quick heads up so you can avoid looking stupid (or get busted up by the Unions who have announced to stand against you)...

FYI, Conservatives For Patients' Rights, the wonderful company that has been spending like crazy running false-truth/scare tactic/paranoia commercials in middle TN and other areas with "low education/high intolerance" communities in an aim to block heath care reform, and funding (oh, i mean "organizing") fake grassroots support for people to crash town hall meetings and disrupt the health care reform proceedings, may not be the picture of patriotism that you may have thought.

you see, CPR is a multimillion dollar, non-profit lobbying group founded and funded by former hospital executive Rick Scott. Scott was ousted as chief executive officer of the Columbia/Hospital Corporation of America in 1997, after the hospital chain was investigated for fraud. In a plea agreement, the company paid $1.7 billion to settle the charges.

Scott started CPR in March 2009, seeding the group with $5 million of his own money to "promote free-market health care reform solutions" and lobby against President Barack Obama's proposal for a government-run health care option.

Creative Response Concepts, a conservative public relations firm known for its 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' campaign during the 2004 presidential campaign, handles CPR's messaging.

their commercial "Squeeze" has been running nationally on CNN and Fox News, and is part of a $1.4 million buy that began July 15th despite the fact that although CPR lists individual sources for each statement in the ad, the facts are largely taken out of context, come from biased industry groups or have been discredited.

stopping, or getting in the way of meaningful health reform means you have chosen to be a part of causing or prolonging someone's suffering!

you can check my facts, just thought you'd like to know...

-and oh yeah... Police Departments, Fire Departments, and the U.S. Postal Service are all examples of things someone could call "Socialist" that are partly government run for the common good that work, and work well, so please spare me, or anyone else any overtly racist "Obama as the Joker" etc. type BS... you're not fooling anyone.

i pray none of you, or those you love gets sick and can't afford treatment.

remember, Jesus was a liberal, Hitler was a conservative.

seeing this unrestrained, overtly racist, right wing posturing on TGO every single time i take a look at this site gets infuriating... i see more "us versus them" than i see anything that resembles any political ideology and being a firearm enthusiast is NOT synonymous with these beliefs and just gives us all a bad name.

i know i could get thrown off this site for voicing these opinions (even though there's an amendment i believe that's BEFORE the 2nd amendment...) but i just don't really care. this "one-side being represented only" is getting out of control.

Do you actually have a point you wanted to make somewhere in this post or are you just seeking attention and trying to be offensive? Like one of the OP, wrote my wife has also had a tough couple of years - cancer and other surgeries (6 total) - so I think we have a pretty good idea of a family member with serious health issues and the implications of the system and related actions. You nor any other fool who wants to "educate" me has anything to offer.

So I tell you what: you might want to rethink your soapbox BS and efforts to preach to this board about things you know nothing about - cause you come off like a total fool in your rambling and pointless (except to be offensvie to those who have actually gone thru serious health and healthcare issue) posting.

You might be a wonderful person and a scholar of great reknown, but it is not evident by your post.

And by the way, you can actually go and read the Constitution at that place called the "Library" and see what is really covered by the First Amendment (and quit clicking by without reading those pesky terms of service and codes of conduct for forums).

Edited August 7, 2009 by 3pugguy

[rg65]

FYI, Conservatives For Patients' Rights, the wonderful company that has been spending like crazy running false-truth/scare tactic/paranoia commercials in middle TN and other areas with "low education/high intolerance" communities in an aim to block heath care reform, and funding (oh, i mean "organizing") fake grassroots support for people to crash town hall meetings and disrupt the health care reform proceedings, may not be the picture of patriotism that you may have thought.

Please enlighten me on the "false-truth(s)/paranoia" that are in these commercials.

-and oh yeah... Police Departments, Fire Departments, and the U.S. Postal Service are all examples of things someone could call "Socialist" that are partly government run for the common good that work, and work well, so please spare me, or anyone else any overtly racist "Obama as the Joker" etc. type BS... you're not fooling anyone.

from: Federal news, government operations, agency management, pay & benefits - FederalTimes.comPostal Service’s financial woes deepen

Postal Service’s financial woes deepen

By gcarlstrom@federaltimes.com

August 05, 2009

The U.S. Postal Service lost $2.4 billion in the third quarter of 2009 as mail volume plummeted for the 10th consecutive quarter, according to data released by the Postal Service today.....

Total losses for the first nine months of the year are now a staggering $4.7 billion — and postal management expects that number to climb above $7 billion by year’s end.

i know i could get thrown off this site for voicing these opinions (even though there's an amendment i believe that's BEFORE the 2nd amendment...) but i just don't really care. this "one-side being represented only" is getting out of control.

I certainly doubt it! It is my experience that conservatives are way more TOLERANT of liberals than liberals are of conservatives;)

I heard this on the radio today here in Memphis (I could not get the youtube video to embed properly). This is from 1961!

YouTube - RONALD REAGAN SPEAKS OUT AGAINST SOCIALIZED MEDICINE & SOCIALISM!!

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

CK1, is there a point to this post or are you ranting?

If its a rant, I hope you feel better getting that out.

If not, please understand that any backlash has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion, but rather its presentation.

Even though you may have an opinion, bashing others is the least effective way to go about making your point. Present your argument, support it with facts, and state your peace. People will disagree with you, it doesn't matter who you are, however, at least you had a chance to change some minds.

If you feel CPR is a dishonest organization, then say so without all the name-calling. I don't really know a thing about CPR or give a damn about what they say or do. All of my opinions are formed from the digestion of information from many sources, left, right, and neutral. If you want to make a case to me to care, then do so.

If your point is about the board leaning in one direction, then that is to be expected to some extent. Birds of a feather, so to speak. HOWEVER, no one is stopping you from posting or starting threads with a well formed argument for your point of view. If you are tired of the politics, read another section. I haven't seen many off-topic posts in the non-political sections.

Statements like "Jesus was a liberal, Hitler was a conservative." only lower your credibility and make you sound ignorant and do nothing for your point.

I have not seen any racism on this board, as you claim. I have been a victim of racism, religious bigotry, and various other forms of ignorant hatred, and I know it when I see it. The Obama as the Joker has absolutely NOTHING to do with his race and everything to do with his politics.

You seem to hate people for your assumptions their personal beliefs, which is just as bad as being racist because it is prejuding someone on a percieved assumptions. I don't hate Obama. I don't hate liberals. I just disagree with many of their opinions and I have strong criticisms of Obama's actions and abilities as the president.

So I ask, please, if you are going to contribute, contribute something of value. You may not have a single person agree with you, but at least you are bringing something useful to the table.

[Guest Hyaloid]

My first instinct when I read the original post was to remove it.

It is intentionally inflammatory and unnecessarily aggressive in it's tone and language towards other forum members.

However, I am letting it stand as is. I think there have been a couple of very well reasoned responses by our members, and I would ask the original poster to feel free to DEBATE THE ISSUES.

However, if you guys start getting out of line and thumping your chests ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE, your post will get deleted, the thread will be closed and I will be recommending bans of the temporary or permanent nature.

If you cannot keep it civil and free of personal attacks (ALL SIDES), then don't post.

Thank you and carry on.

[Guest redbarron06]

I see more "us versus them" than i see anything that resembles any political ideology

I got some news for you. It is us against them. "US" being those that want to keep our rights, our religion, and our freedoms against those of "them" that want to steal the benifits of our labor, limit our ability to make choices in our health care, and require us to provide for those that are to lazy to provide for themselves.

We want our country to look at the very documents that founded this country and obey the rules printed there in. We want to pratice our religion and you to pratice yours if you choose to. We want to be able to protect ourselves and our family and not wait on an underpayed govt employee to show up to investigate it after the fact. We want to put criminals in jail for committing crimes.

They want to limit our choices. They want to tell us how to educate our children. They want to take the money that we went out and earned and give it to somebody that did not earn it. They want to look at the Constitution like most people look at speed limit signs (well it is just a suggestion, we can go 5 or 10 over). They want us to trust their all knowing, all seeing, ability to govern the blind without question. For example look at the Cash for clunkers. A program that was going to last for months, well ends up it lasted for days and what do they do vote to STEAL 2 billion more dollars from those of us that are earning the money.

Lets look at your examples of things the govt does right.

Military well for over 200 years now they have been getting the job done but it was not because of Congress it is because of those that put the uniform on. However it is not quite that simple. The AH-64 Apache helicopter cost when they were contracted 12 million per copy. AH-1 Cobra helicopter (it was already in the inventory along with all of the spare parts trained mechanics ect) cost to upgrade to the latest version 6 million per copy. Newer version of the Cobra carries more, longer, and faster than the AH-64. Just about every year on most military bases they have what they call "million dollar minute". They take all of the ammo that they had bought for the year that had not been used and go to the range and shoot it all up in one day. reason behind the waste "if we dont use it we cant get more next year".

Post Office Well first of all it is required by the Constitution that the federal govt do this. Are they cost effective? Yes, especially if you are shipping out junk mail that fills up land fills. Are there private companies that do the job better? Yes that is why they are in buisness.

If you will take a look at your argument and remove the emotion and look at it logically. I understand it is hard to do. The Constitution gives no authority to congress to provide health insurance to the public. This can not be argueed. It is not there. That same documnet gives Congress no authority to give people $4500 for trading a car. As much as it would be great for everybody to have a new car and health insurance The government of both "US" and "THEM" have no authority to pass such a regulation. If you want health insurance for the rest of your life, I can tell you a couple of ways to get it. Move to a country that supplies it, or do 20 years in the military, or find another employer that will provide it for you. Other than that, any law to create a public option, for health insurance including Medicare, and Medicade is a violation of the Constitution anyway you look at it.

If you think "US" vs "THEM" is bad now, just hide and watch what it will turn into if the liberals keep forcing this socialist crap down the throats of the people of this country and pushing us kicking and screaming down this path. Consertivitives and Liberals are everywhere, there will be no Mason/Dixon line next time.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

Troll. Be careful what you say. I think there needs to be health care reform, but there is nothing wrong with the framework in place now. All projects need maintenance. It is an unfortunate fact that all people die. It is also a fortunate fact that most people would already be dead if it wasn't for the American health care system as it is now. The government cannot "run" anything except into the ground, as a rule. Government? Stay the F out of my life.

[Guest Bingo1]

Creative Response Concepts, a conservative public relations firm known for its 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' campaign during the 2004 presidential campaign, handles CPR's messaging.

It's highly amusing that CK1 (and, apparently, most of those who now denigrate legitimate voices in opposition to Obamacare as the illegitimate progeny of conservative "astroturfing") incorporates some "astroturf" of his own in his rant. CK1 et al have recieved their "marching orders"...recently dictated by the Democratic National Committee itself. Writes Jeff Emanuel at RedState.org ...

To that end, Jen O’Malley Dillon, executive director of the Democratic National Committee, sent an email to supporters this afternoon that is virtually dripping with desperation. Called “5 Facts About the Anti-Reform Mobs,” Dillon’s email is a frantic effort to reassure the shrinking, increasingly-fringe minority that actually support’s the President’s debt-growing and government-expanding programs that, against all evidence, they are the true majority on this issue and the opponents of their increasingly-unpopular proposals are an angry, paid, fringe “mob.”

Dillon wrote:

5 facts about the anti-reform mobs

1. These disruptions are being funded and organized by out-of-district special-interest groups and insurance companies who fear that health insurance reform could help Americans, but hurt their bottom line. A group run by the same folks who made the “Swiftboat” ads against John Kerry is compiling a list of congressional events in August to disrupt. An insurance company coalition has stationed employees in 30 states to track where local lawmakers hold town-hall meetings.

<snip>

It’s time to expose this charade, before it gets more dangerous. Please send these facts to everyone you know. You can also post them on your website, blog, or Facebook page.

RedState.org - cont'd

The left understands what legitimate "swiftboating" portends...and it terrifies them. Little wonder they see a "swiftboat" behind every political bush.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Bingo1

[Guest jwb68]

... figured i'd give you a quick heads up so you can avoid looking stupid (or get busted up by the Unions who have announced to stand against you)...

That crap might work in Shumerland, Obamaland or Teddyland. The sheep in those states dont push back.

[Guest 44M]

I sometimes wish I was 8-years-old again. Then, none of this *beep* would matter.

when I was 8 year old we had socialized health care and I didn`t have anything to worry about. When I was sick I would go to the doctor got checked,got my prescription,went to the pharmacy and then home. Didn`t cost me a one penny. Everybody had then (and most European countries do have it today) guaranteed health care. My mother just got diagnosed with brest cancer few weeks ago, after mamogram she was in the operating room in 2-3 days and was home in another 3-4 days. No insurance problems, no waiting, no circus with deductibles or secondary insurances or whos going to pay for what or I don`t know what. That is socialized healh care, when you`re sick you go to the doctor and you get treated. The problem here in US are gazilliondollars worth health insurance companies who would be out of business overnite if that happeneds and everything you watch on TV and all the propaganda how socialized health care is a some terrible thing is nothing but a bunch a bologna. I love that TV comercial with that woman from Canada who wasn`t happy with her health care in Canada so she came here...? but nobody told us how much she had to pay for it because I know, she didn`t have health insurance here being from Canada. Paying $800 for ambulance or $2000 for 4 hour wait and few shots of baby motrin and tylenol at the emergency room for your baby is another example of how working man gets riped off. US Goverment runs the whole country and I don`t see the reason why they couldn`t run successful health care.Don`t believe everythign you see and don`t judge something you don`t know anything about.And unles you lived in the socialist country you don`t know what socialized health care is all about. Germany is socialized country, and you`d like to have one of those new S Class Daimlers now, wouldn`t you?

Db

[canadienmike]

when I was 8 year old we had socialized health care and I didn`t have anything to worry about. When I was sick I would go to the doctor got checked,got my prescription,went to the pharmacy and then home. Didn`t cost me a one penny. Everybody had then (and most European countries do have it today) guaranteed health care. My mother just got diagnosed with brest cancer few weeks ago, after mamogram she was in the operating room in 2-3 days and was home in another 3-4 days. No insurance problems, no waiting, no circus with deductibles or secondary insurances or whos going to pay for what or I don`t know what. That is socialized healh care, when you`re sick you go to the doctor and you get treated. The problem here in US are gazilliondollars worth health insurance companies who would be out of business overnite if that happeneds and everything you watch on TV and all the propaganda how socialized health care is a some terrible thing is nothing but a bunch a bologna. I love that TV comercial with that woman from Canada who wasn`t happy with her health care in Canada so she came here...? but nobody told us how much she had to pay for it because I know, she didn`t have health insurance here being from Canada. Paying $800 for ambulance or $2000 for 4 hour wait and few shots of baby motrin and tylenol at the emergency room for your baby is another example of how working man gets riped off. US Goverment runs the whole country and I don`t see the reason why they couldn`t run successful health care.Don`t believe everythign you see and don`t judge something you don`t know anything about.And unles you lived in the socialist country you don`t know what socialized health care is all about. Germany is socialized country, and you`d like to have one of those new S Class Daimlers now, wouldn`t you?

Db

I come from a socialist country and I understand how socialized health care works. Lots of people from Canada are coming here for health care regardless of cost. What does that say to you that they are willing to pay big bucks to something they can get for 'free' back home? It says to me that there is something broken. Private health providers are on the rise in Canada and doing very well.

Some of the problems back home are the wait times for anything major. Need and MRI? Get ready to wait 6-18 months. That knee replacement? You should have it in 18-24 months. Need to go to the ER? Unless you are having a heart attack, get ready to wait 18 hours. Move and need a new doctor? Good luck with that if you are in a small town. A friend of mine's aunt died because of this. She had cancer in remission but needed follow ups and they moved to another small town. She couldn't find a doctor to see, so the cancer came back and by the time she saw a doctor it was too late.

No system is perfect, but to say that socailized health care always works and is the best system is not quite accurate. There are costs to every system.

[Guest redbarron06]

when I was 8 year old we had socialized health care and I didn`t have anything to worry about. When I was sick I would go to the doctor got checked,got my prescription,went to the pharmacy and then home. Didn`t cost me a one penny. Everybody had then (and most European countries do have it today) guaranteed health care. My mother just got diagnosed with brest cancer few weeks ago, after mamogram she was in the operating room in 2-3 days and was home in another 3-4 days. No insurance problems, no waiting, no circus with deductibles or secondary insurances or whos going to pay for what or I don`t know what. That is socialized healh care, when you`re sick you go to the doctor and you get treated. The problem here in US are gazilliondollars worth health insurance companies who would be out of business overnite if that happeneds and everything you watch on TV and all the propaganda how socialized health care is a some terrible thing is nothing but a bunch a bologna. I love that TV comercial with that woman from Canada who wasn`t happy with her health care in Canada so she came here...? but nobody told us how much she had to pay for it because I know, she didn`t have health insurance here being from Canada. Paying $800 for ambulance or $2000 for 4 hour wait and few shots of baby motrin and tylenol at the emergency room for your baby is another example of how working man gets riped off. US Goverment runs the whole country and I don`t see the reason why they couldn`t run successful health care.Don`t believe everythign you see and don`t judge something you don`t know anything about.And unles you lived in the socialist country you don`t know what socialized health care is all about. Germany is socialized country, and you`d like to have one of those new S Class Daimlers now, wouldn`t you?

Db

I have lived in a socialist country. As far as "guarenteed health care for everybody" yep they guarentee you health care but not timley care. You dont like the commercial with the lady from canada Ok fine talk to the folks from England, Germany, several South American countries, all over Europe, Africa and even the former Soviet Union. We have the premiere health care system in the world. Yes it has problems. It is not perfect but then again nothing is.

Once again you are thinking with emotion. Take that out of the arguement. The FACT of the matter is that Congress can not legaly impose this on the people of this country. Just because the violated the law with medicare, Social Security, Freddy and Fannie, and Cash for clunkers does not mean that they should be violating the law again.

US Goverment runs the whole country and I don`t see the reason why they couldn`t run successful health care.

You mean like they ran the "Cash for Clunkers"?

Name 3 programs that they run that successfully work?

I tell you what for every program you name that does work I can name at least 5 that dont.

[Guest 44M]

try to get that knee replacement here withouth a healt insurance....

people from Canada are coming here for health care regardless of cost. What does that say to you that they are willing to pay big bucks

it tells me that they have big bucks, those people are not the one we are talking about and not the one who care about anyhting because they have,as you said "big bucks"..here is about the working man and women who work hard and have no big bucks..we are talking about their health care..that is one thing about socialized health care, it is not focused on people with "big money" but on the regular middle class, hard working folks who are the back bone of this country. But I do agree, no system is perfect.

Db

[canadienmike]

try to get that knee replacement here withouth a healt insurance....

it tells me that they have big bucks, those people are not the one we are talking about and not the one who care about anyhting because they have,as you said "big bucks"..here is about the working man and women who work hard and have no big bucks..we are talking about their health care..that is one thing about socialized health care, it is not focused on people with "big money" but on the regular middle class, hard working folks who are the back bone of this country. But I do agree, no system is perfect.

Db

If the system is broke to the point that those with money are willing to spend it, hows does that help the middle class that can't afford it. For something like a knee replacement where you can wait for 2 years, albeit in great discomfort and not really having a full life, then fine. But what if you need an mri that will find something that needs to be treated right away? After the 6-18 months it takes, it may be too late to help you. How does that help the working man or middle class?

[Guest 44M]

talk to the folks from England, Germany

I lived in Germany for 5 years, so I know what is that I`m talking about, I have friends all over the Europe also, being from Europe I know little more than many people here and they are going to have a problem trying to sell me a scare tactics about socialized health care. Yes, we here have a great health care, if you are covered, if you don`t get droped because of preegzisting condition or million other reasons. Health insurances here have an army of lawyers who don`t do anything else but try to find a flaw in your profile if they get the hospital bill they don`t wont to pay.I work for goverment and I personaly have very good health care insurance but its not all about me, there is 50 000 000 american people who don`t have nothing. And I know what a problem is, problem is in the fact that most of those people are black but nobody admits that but we all know about it. Blacks are the poorest and most of those 50 000 000. But you know what, they are Americans, same as anyone else, and they deserve it too, unlike the reach fat a$$ CEO`s who sent the bigest companies over the edge and still accepted millions of dollars in bonuses. That is what is wrong here, little man,black and white, is getting run over by the rich folks who don`t care about nothing but how to make another million..

Db

[Guest slothful1]

it tells me that they have big bucks, those people are not the one we are talking about and not the one who care about anyhting because they have,as you said "big bucks"..

People don't become rich by spending money unnecessarily. If care at home is good quality and free/cheap, why do they spend "big bucks" to come here?

[Guest 44M]

well, I`m going to go play with my kids now..I have enough of this beating the dead horse/health care arguments...I shouldn`t be worried, I have awesome health insurance..

Db