Gabe Suarez on caliber choice.

[TGO David]

You are a jackass. Gabe did not have a felony.

Ah, name calling... the refuge of the intellectually weak. Gabe wasn't convicted of a felony but he was up against felony charges was he not? It really doesn't matter, because I never said that I disagreed with his teachings nor did I say that I thought he should be ignored because of his murky past. I just said that I weigh a man's character along with everything else before making a decision to invest in that person or in whatever they are selling.

Apparently that offends you because you elevate these professional trainers to hero-like status in your mind, or at least you act like you do. Since this is the case, there's really nothing left for you and I to discuss.

I can agree with that but at the same time, given his side of the story, I personally don't see that he has done anything unmoral or unethical. He was acting in good faith in that what he was doing was legal. He wasn't acting maliciously, trying to swindle money or run a scam. He was openly training people to better defend themselves after checking with his WC lawyer and DR. Yet people act as if he was out there selling crack to school kids or something.

Nah, I think a lot of the charges against Suarez are too cloudy to carry a whole lot of credibility so I am siding with him until my trust is proven to have been misplaced. I said earlier in this thread that I know people who plead out to lesser charges just to escape the Judicial circus with a little bit of their souls intact. It really sounds like this is what Mr. Suarez did and I cannot condemn him for that at all.

Somehow Pharmtecher decided that I was criticizing specific people (Gabe) rather than being critical of generalities. Who knows. I've got better things to do than argue with him about something we are actually on the same side of.

[E4 No More]

Search is your friend.

So is asking friends.

[TGO David]

So is asking friends.

Most of us here don't have friends.

[Metalhead]

That's ok David, I still love you.

[Guest JHatmaker]

Ok, great debate on here guys, but let's watch the name-calling. Not to sound like a first grade teacher or anything, but there's no need for that to make your point, etc (and it's against the Code of Conduct here anyways).

As far as caliber goes, like some others have stated, I prefer to use different calibers depending on what I'm in the mood to carry. I used to be in the boat that the smaller the gun the better for concealed carry, but after reading some articles and watching a couple shooting shows, I decided instead of trying to fit something in my pocket, to dress appropriately for a full size gun.

It's like Clint Smith says in his DVD series ads, "it's big when I pull it out, and when I carry it" (That's what she said!, heyooohhhh!)

I carry either a standard size 9mm with 15+ rounds, or a .40 S&W with 10 rounds. Sometimes I even carry the big daddy Glock 20. Regardless I always have a back up gun in a pocket somewhere.

And if you carry muliple magazines along with a .45, then there you go. (I know it's not as good as already having 19+ rounds in an XDM vs having to reload your 1911, but sometimes bigger is better) That's what she said! I'm on a roll!

And then the .357 SIG debate can come in I guess. Isn't that a better cartridge to use if your attacker is behind some kind of barrier? Seems like I read that the .357 SIG can go through glass/thin barriers and still retail it's accuracy and force better than other cartridges. Someone correct me if I wrong.

[E4 No More]

Most of us here don't have friends.

Wow! That's so sad. I view all of you that are friendly to me to be friends that I haven't met yet.

[TGO David]

Good points, Jason. I would add that carrying additional mags for your 1911 still puts you somewhat behind the curve in terms of capacity when you consider that you can also additional mags for your Glock 19 and have double the number of rounds per mag.

It's really all about what you want to carry and whether you shoot it reliably and are good at reloading it under pressure. I think in most encounters, 16 rounds of 45acp for your 1911 are going to be sufficient provided you hit everything you pull the trigger on. I tend not to carry my 1911s for other reasons.

[Smith]

So is asking friends.

In this case search is best because it is a long and convaluted debate. It's not a topic that can be related in a couple of sentences. Well, i guess it could but his followers would disagree.

[E4 No More]

In this case search is best because it is a long and convaluted debate. It's not a topic that can be related in a couple of sentences. Well, i guess it could but his followers would disagree.

I was just wondering who he was; not a biography. That's all.

Edited August 4, 2009 by SWJewellTN

[Guest JHatmaker]

Good points, Jason. I would add that carrying additional mags for your 1911 still puts you somewhat behind the curve in terms of capacity when you consider that you can also additional mags for your Glock 19 and have double the number of rounds per mag.

Yep, forgot about that.

So the moral of the story is 9mm is superior! End of discussion, close the thread....

Seriously though, as much as I love 1911's and the .45 round, it's hard to argue with volume (not size but quantity), and the majority of the time 9mm will win in that regard. If you had an XDM9 (19+1) and an extra magazine (19) that's 39 rounds (vs. 15 with a single stack 1911 (7+1) and extra mag (7))

[Mark A]

Who can fault Gabe's point of view.

After all, he sells this:

Don't Shoot Me Banner - DSM-CCW

David, since I haven't mailed you my hat and shirt order yet can I get one of these with the TGO logo on it as well?

thanks.

[TGO David]

David, since I haven't mailed you my hat and shirt order yet can I get one of these with the TGO logo on it as well?

thanks.

Yep! But ours are being made in pink, gray and white urban camo with lime green letters.

[nightrunner]

And then the .357 SIG debate can come in I guess. Isn't that a better cartridge to use if your attacker is behind some kind of barrier? Seems like I read that the .357 SIG can go through glass/thin barriers and still retail it's accuracy and force better than other cartridges. Someone correct me if I wrong.

i was once told that when involving car doors in a shootout, you want .357sig if you want to shoot through the car door or 10mm if you want to slam the door on the BG!

[et45]

Wow! That's so sad. I view all of you that are friendly to me to be friends that I haven't met yet.

[Spiffy]

i was once told that when involving car doors in a shootout, you want .357sig if you want to shoot through the car door or 10mm if you want to slam the door on the BG!

10MM will vaporize the car door, car, bad guy, road under the bad guy and car, and cause a rift in the space time continuum and disrupt interstellar travel. The point............ Be sure of your backstop.

[TGO David]

10MM will vaporize the car door, car, bad guy, road under the bad guy and car, and cause a rift in the space time continuum and disrupt interstellar travel. The point............ Be sure of your backstop.

Well played.

[10Kilr]

Thread got derailed..........a little.

[Guest JHatmaker]

Thread got derailed..........a little.

Much like that time a dude supposedly shot a train with a Glock 20 10mm and derailed it...

[NuTcAsE]

Much like that time a dude supposedly shot a train with a Glock 20 10mm and derailed it...

That's true! The round penetrated the side of the third car, made it's way through a luggage car, two passenger cars, past an old lady in the bathroom, into the engine and hit the Conductor in the ass who subsequently lost control and derailed the train.

[gsbell]

Chuck Norris vs the 10mm, bets?

[nightrunner]

Chuck Norris vs the 10mm, bets?

that would be epic, no

LEGENDARY!

[Oh Shoot]

10MM will vaporize the car door, car, bad guy, ...

Gabe sells special Don't Shoot Me for 10mm owners.

Note that round did not actually strike perp. It wizzed over his head and lodged in tree, but force wave was enough to cause internal hemorrhage and death.

- OS

[Guest 3pugguy]

I agree with most of what he said, but I would like to point out the flaw in this statement: I hear this a lot. I read it a lot. I even believe it an extent. However, the flaw in the statement is the assumption that the same advances made with 9mm projectile construction have not been applied to the .40SW or the .45ACP projectiles as well.

The statement strives to compare the "modern 9mm" to the antiquated .45ACP TMJ ball round. Apples and oranges! If you compare the modern 9mm to the modern .40SW or the modern .45ACP, the bigger projectiles are still expanding to bigger sizes than the modern 9mm.

Granted, expansion is not the end-all be-all measurement of a projectile's effectiveness. You also want a healthy balance of penetration and, given the choice between the two, you want penetration more than you want expansion.

I just think that the argument made with this particular talking point is flawed and doesn't really belong in the debate in the presented form.

+1

ALL ammo is getter better.

[SavageSig]

+1

ALL ammo is getter better.

As times change, standards change.

For instance, a V8 was once considered mandatory for a car that accelerates decently. Improvements to engines in general have made 4 cylinder engines as powerful as V8s in the past. Modern V8's are still more powerful, but modern 4 cylinders have more than enough ooomph for the average driver.

I think this fellow Gabe is trying to say that modern .45 rounds are still more powerful than modern 9mm rounds, but modern 9mm rounds have passed the threshold of lethality that makes them OK for EDC.

[Guest JHatmaker]

The imfamous ballistics gel chart (inc 10mm)