Did anyone attend the Knoxville City's Mtg yesterday attempting to ban guns in parks?

[Guest tnvolfan]

Guns in parks’ vote postponed for now

Council bumps resolution so all members can discuss it

BY HAYES HICKMAN hickmanh@knoxnews.com

The decision of whether the city of Knoxville should opt out of the new “guns in parks†state law was postponed until Aug. 25 by City Council members Tuesday, albeit begrudgingly by some.

The postponement, unanimously approved, was proposed for the sake of waiting until all nine council members could be on-hand to discuss the hot-button issue. Councilman Steve Hall was on vacation. The resolution was bumped four weeks rather than two weeks until the next meeting Aug. 11, since Vice Mayor Bob Becker will be absent then.

“I think we ought to deal with that when everyone is at the table,†said Becker, who sponsored the original resolution and made the motion for its postponement.

Council members Barbara Pelot and Joe Bailey urged their fellow council members to end the habit of postponing votes for the sake of their personal schedules, though.

“This council is getting too comfortable with postponements,†Pelot said.

Councilwoman Marilyn Roddy said she would agree to the delay only if members would support holding a public forum to hear all opinions on the issue.

“We need to allow robust public discussion,†she said. “I know there are passionate opinions on both sides.â€

Views were mixed among the council as well, according to those reached for comment before of the meeting.

Becker and Chris Woodhull both said they’re in favor of prohibiting fi rearms within city parks. Bailey said he’d like to hear an argument for why the prohibition is necessary at all.

Pelot said she’s still undecided — she was leaning toward the side of gun-rights advocates on the issue, until recently when the tone of many of their e-mail messages became more “alarming.â€

“I haven gotten the most mean-spirited e-mails … from these so-called welltrained, law-abiding, permitholding people,†Pelot said. “If they can e-mail me in those tones, how do I know they’re not just as dangerous (as criminals)?â€

Doug Bataille, Knox County’s director of parks and recreation, said the county’s parks advisory board is set to meet Monday to consider a local prohibition. Its proposal would be referred to County Mayor Mike Ragsdale, who in turn would make a recommendation to the County Commission.

“We’re also very interested to see what the city does,†Bataille said. “It’d make a lot of sense for the city and the county to have the same ordinance.â€

Several local governments across Tennessee already voted to opt out earlier this month, including the city councils of Memphis and Chattanooga. Metro Nashville’s City Council postponed the matter.

In the Knoxville area, the city of Dandridge opted out, while the Oak Ridge and Anderson County voted to let the new state law stand.

Hayes Hickman may be reached at 865-342-6323.

[Oh Shoot]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/24853-knox-city-council-meet-july-27th-urgent.html

We've lost the last few posts there due to the TGO server glitches, though...a couple of them extensive. I'll try to recreate mine sometime this evening.

- OS

[Guest VolGrad]

Pelot said she’s still undecided — she was leaning toward the side of gun-rights advocates on the issue, until recently when the tone of many of their e-mail messages became more “alarming.â€

“I haven gotten the most mean-spirited e-mails … from these so-called welltrained, law-abiding, permitholding people,†Pelot said. “If they can e-mail me in those tones, how do I know they’re not just as dangerous (as criminals)?â€

I exchanged e-mails with Mrs. Pelot this afternoon. She was quite pleasant actually. She expressed to me that the paper didn't exactly portray what happened. She didn't just receive "mean spirited e-mails". She received actual threats from folks claiming to be carry license holders. She was genuinely concerned for her safety. I would bet whomever sent them likely sent the same threats to other council members.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame her for wavering in her support. She thanked me for taking the time to contact her and told me how much she appreciated and respected my position. She thanked me for the tone of my messages as well.

Whomever sent those messages really did a number on "us". Please recall whenever you contact someone to be respectful and polite no matter what. It takes a long time to build a good rapport. It only takes one time to destroy it.

[leroy]

I exchanged e-mails with Mrs. Pelot this afternoon. She was quite pleasant actually. She expressed to me that the paper didn't exactly portray what happened. She didn't just receive "mean spirited e-mails". She received actual threats from folks claiming to be carry license holders. She was genuinely concerned for her safety. I would bet whomever sent them likely sent the same threats to other council members.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame her for wavering in her support. She thanked me for taking the time to contact her and told me how much she appreciated and respected my position. She thanked me for the tone of my messages as well.

Whomever sent those messages really did a number on "us". Please recall whenever you contact someone to be respectful and polite no matter what. It takes a long time to build a good rapport. It only takes one time to destroy it.

I sent Mrs Pelot an e-mail note this morning after reading the KNOXNEWS article RE: "Mean Spirited HCP holders" and got much the same pleasant reply back as indicated in your post.

Here is the quote lifted from her reply:

"...I certainly hope that those who share your position, and are asking me to respect it as well, will make their comments respectfully and reflect the integrity of the majority of permit holders. It alarms me, and I am confident it would you, that they ask support and then make threats to those who hold a differing view. The newspaper quote failed to mention the threats which had been made to Council members who might be in disagreement.. ..."

It appears to me that Mrs. Pelot may be lumping all HCP owners in the same basket right now. We need to work on changing this opinion with kindness and respectful correspondence and discussion. As VOLgrad mentioned above, we need to be winsome, kind, and respectful in our contacts with everyone; especially those we seek to influence.

Food for thought,

LEROY

[USMCJG]

I exchanged e-mails with Mrs. Pelot this afternoon. She was quite pleasant actually. She expressed to me that the paper didn't exactly portray what happened. She didn't just receive "mean spirited e-mails". She received actual threats from folks claiming to be carry license holders. She was genuinely concerned for her safety. I would bet whomever sent them likely sent the same threats to other council members.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame her for wavering in her support. She thanked me for taking the time to contact her and told me how much she appreciated and respected my position. She thanked me for the tone of my messages as well.

Whomever sent those messages really did a number on "us". Please recall whenever you contact someone to be respectful and polite no matter what. It takes a long time to build a good rapport. It only takes one time to destroy it.

I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, of those "permit holders" who sent threatening emails weren't permit holders at all. From a strategy standpoint it would be pretty smart, although criminal, for opponents of handgun carry in parks to claim to be permit holders and act threatening. I certainly wouldn't put it past many of the people referred to as "liberals" to do something like that.

[Glenn]

I went. There is some discussion a few posts ago. after it was delayed one councilman asked for those that came to support opt-out to stand up. I didn't see anyone stand. When he asked those that came to oppose opt-out to stand there were 20-25. We have to get a huge turnout at the workshop on the 20th and at the vote on the 25th. Afterwards some of us stood around and talked. A lawyer named Michael Mollenhour is trying to organize opposition. He apparently knows several of the councilmen. He took my email and and is going to start a mailing list for information. If anyone wants to get on the mailing list they can PM me and I will forward them any information.

We have got to have a big turnout.

Glenn

[macville]

A lawyer named Michael Mollenhour is trying to organize opposition. He apparently knows several of the councilmen. He took my email and and is going to start a mailing list for information. If anyone wants to get on the mailing list they can PM me and I will forward them any information.

Yes, Michael is a great guy. My wife's family has known him for a long time and I am sad that we didn't see him while we were there last night. We got there late and when they said the vote was going to be pushed back we left right away.

Two things though. I got an email from Mayor Haslam today stating that there would be a meeting on the 20th and a vote on the 25th. I thought that it was pretty impressive that someone in his office cared enough to let people know about the next meeting/vote. I figure if he wanted the ban (which he says he doesn't, but you know politicians...) there wouldn't have been an email sent out saying anything about when the next meeting would be. If I wanted something to fail I would make sure the opposition wouldn't know when it's happening.

Second, do we still know about legal carry in the meeting room? I know the main part of the building is posted, but I didn't see anything about it being posted in that room. You don't go through the metal detector, so I was thinking that it may not be banned in that room. I noticed that Lumpy says he doesn't have a gun there, but the reason was never because he couldn't legally carry.

Matthew

[Glenn]

When I got there the only way in was through the metal detectors. I am pretty sure carry is prohibited anywhere in the city-county building.

Glenn

[macville]

When I got there the only way in was through the metal detectors. I am pretty sure carry is prohibited anywhere in the city-county building.

Interesting. When we walked in, the two guards sitting there kinda gave us a blank look and then pointed the room over to the right. Did not go through metal detectors.

I kinda had to laugh at the security. If I were a councilperson I would not be happy. The two guards outside were unarmed, and then the city policeman there standing near the door would probably have been shot 5 times before he'd be close to drawing. I'm not saying he's slow or anything, but one cop standing at the door isn't going to really stop anything from going down sadly enough. I don't mind disarming if you provide proper security, but that's just really laughable to me.

Matthew

[Oh Shoot]

I went. There is some discussion a few posts ago. after it was delayed one councilman asked for those that came to support opt-out to stand up. I didn't see anyone stand. When he asked those that came to oppose opt-out to stand there were 20-25. ..

I watched on TV and that was correct. Joe Hultquist, who had asked for the standing count, even said "no one?", best I remember.

You can watch the meeting at:

Community Television of Knoxville | Community Access | Knoxville, TN

or direct to the video itself:

City Council - July 28, 2009

All the carry discussion happens at first of meeting, shortly after prayer and whatnot.

- OS

[Guest tnvolfan]

I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, of those "permit holders" who sent threatening emails weren't permit holders at all. From a strategy standpoint it would be pretty smart, although criminal, for opponents of handgun carry in parks to claim to be permit holders and act threatening. I certainly wouldn't put it past many of the people referred to as "liberals" to do something like that.

I exchanged emails with her too, apologizing for whatever was sent to her, but telling her my serious doubts about someone with a HCP doing it. As a lady HCP, I invited her to shoot with me at Coal Creek Armory on a Tuesday

"Ladies' Day," which is when I always shoot, and I tried to tell her what a great bunch of folks we shooters are. I hope to meet her at the next meeting. We need to make a big POSITIVE showing. I do believe some naysayers are out there trying to sabotage us.

[Guest bkelm18]

While I wouldn't put it past the anti's sending those emails, I certainly wouldn't put it past some HCP holders as well. As we have seen here from time to time, there are people with HCPs that certainly have anger management issues as well as people who really don't think about the consequences of their actions before they mouth off. I hope they are investigating the threats so we can find out if they really had an HCP or not.

[macville]

While I wouldn't put it past the anti's sending those emails, I certainly wouldn't put it past some HCP holders as well. As we have seen here from time to time, there are people with HCPs that certainly have anger management issues as well as people who really don't think about the consequences of their actions before they mouth off. I hope they are investigating the threats so we can find out if they really had an HCP or not.

Tell her to look up names in the data base the stupid Memphis paper has up. It won't be that useful unless someone has a really distinct name, but there's a chance that might be useful. BTW, shouldn't the emails sent to her city email address be public record?

Matthew

[Oh Shoot]

...BTW, shouldn't the emails sent to her city email address be public record?..

Unless you found a different one, Ms. Pelot's email listed on City Council webpage is an AOL one.

- OS

[macville]

Unless you found a different one, Ms. Pelot's email listed on City Council webpage is an AOL one.

My bad, some of the people have @cityofknoxville.org email addresses.

Matthew

[Oh Shoot]

Bob Booker, my own 6th district councilman, just returned my call from few days ago before the meeting (he's the only one who doesn't have email addy listed on webpage).

He's totally AGAINST handgun carry in Knoxville parks. No how, no way, in any of them. Admitted that in no way could he be convinced otherwise.

- OS

[Worriedman]

I have had a conversation via e-mail with Ms. Pelot as well. She said the messages in question were signed, and that is what led to her concern. It would appear from the tone of her reply that she is a HCP Holder.

I also felt that fellow permit holders needed to address the negative impact and concerns these irresponsible people were bringing to the Council at a time when serious, respectful discussion and advocacy should be practiced. I was interested to learn that the Jackson area had experience similar behavior and lack of judgement by a few and just how it can impact a decision we must make on the issue. Thank you for your interest in the Knoxville process. I hope that the conduct at the public hearing will allow us to feel comfortable in supporting the 2nd amendment. For me, it is a very weighty matter and I will give it my most dedicated attention.

To achieve or goals, the use of reasoned informational exchange is the best approach. What good could be expected to come from threats?

Edited July 31, 2009 by Worriedman

[Oh Shoot]

I have had a conversation via e-mail with Ms. Pelot as well. She said the messages in question were signed, and that is what led to her concern. It would appear from the tone of her reply that she is a HCP Holder. ..

There is no Pelot anywhere in TN, in HCP database.

- OS