Fingerprinting Question

[Patrick Henry]

When applying for a carry permit, where do your fingerprints go?

Do they retain them or dispose of them after the background check?

I am just curious as I know some states do not take prints for the background check.

[Guest DefensiveGuy]

In Jackson TN, they did mine at the UPS Store. Part of the $115 is for this service.

They have computer scanning software and prints are sent via data to Nashville.

They gave me a phone # number to call as i was wrapping up at the DMV. I called out in the parking lot and a lady gave me a appointment number. I then went to the UPS store and gave to them.

[Fallguy]

They take two sets...one set is sent to the TBI the other set to the FBI.

What those places do with them after a check is done I'm not 100% sure, but I assume they keep them on file.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well, there are 3 background checks for a HCP, I don't know how the fingerprints are used honestly. I wouldn't think they run them. They probably just keep them "just in case".

[Kegger]

They run your prints to see if they match anything in the state or federal system.

Then they run your name, and finally social.

Then they keep your prints on record at the FBI and TBI.

[Guest Muttling]

They run your prints to see if they match anything in the state or federal system.

Then they run your name, and finally social.

Then they keep your prints on record at the FBI and TBI.

I don't know about the TBI, but I don't think the FBI is allowed to keep such a record. They are not the agency issuing the license so keeping personal identification information is paramount to the old FBI files of J. Edgar Hoover.

TBI may be able to get around the privacy issue because the state is issuing the license and it could be considered identification data for the license.

On a related note, I held a Q clearance in the early 90's (Department of Energy equivalent to a DoD Top Secret....don't be impressed, everyone had them back then). I did a FOIA requesting my FBI file in 2003 and it came back saying "no data". If they didn't keep my information from a Q or all the facilities I've worked on, I'd be very surprised to see them hang on to prints from an HCP.

BTW....Here's another thread where this was discussed and there's a quote from the Tennessee code which states the prints will be used to conduct a computer search. It says it will be sent to the FBI, but Tennessee law doesn't stipulate what a Federal agency does.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/23158-procedures-issuing-handgun-carry-permit.html

Edited July 29, 2009 by Muttling

[Raoul]

I don't know about the TBI, but I don't think the FBI is allowed to keep such a record.

Right. I'm sure they just thow those print away.

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I think in these times of technology they probably retain them somehow electronically. And take faith in being a good person, hoping the information doesn't somehow come back and haunt me.

Yes, other states are lax about giving out permits. And that kinda bothers me...

But that is a really good question, I know when I applied & signed the magic line I pretty much gave authorization for the TBI & FBI to do whatever they want, but I'm sure they're not going to say, sell this information off or somehow use it against me.

I was feeling kinda "exposed" getting fingerprinted. People get in trouble and have no choice in the matter, but I voluntairly did so. But it was worth it, getting the HCP card in the mail makes that ouch go away!

[9teeneleven]

Does anyone else feel weird that a) the whole fingerprinting process is outsourced to a private company (cogent), and the fingerprinting is done at another private business (the UPS store)? All a little to 1984 for me. Not only does the government now have my prints, but at least one private company.

[Defender]

Although I don't often wear my tinfoil hat, I worry that my prints are on file. I had my prints taken in the military several times for various security clearances, as well as for my HCP. Seems a shame, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that they are on file SOMEWHERE still. What worries me is with the direction we seem to be heading in this country, I'd feel way more comfortable if they DIDN'T have my prints. And speaking of HCP, I went for years never getting a HCP nor even joining the NRA because I didn't want my name to be ion any eventual "roundup list". I got past those fears and am a NRA member and obviously a permit holder also, but I still worry...Likewise when I buy a gun form a gun store, I worry that the record of who has that gun could someday come back to haunt me if there ever is a confiscation of guns in this country. Those of you who say it could never happen here...just remember...the Germans said the same thing back in the 1930's...but it did happen!

[Raoul]

Does anyone else feel weird that a) the whole fingerprinting process is outsourced to a private company (cogent), and the fingerprinting is done at another private business (the UPS store)? All a little to 1984 for me. Not only does the government now have my prints, but at least one private company.

Our private info is in so many databases the prints probably don't matter.

[Garufa]

The prints go into your "file".

:rolleyes:

[Mike.357]

I would say that since the prints are done with a computer they are on file FOREVER.

It is not like they are taking up any space.

I think we all have files.

Big brother is always watching

[Guest Muttling]

Federal big brother really does not scare me at this point in time. A number of government beauracrats have been run through the coals and the days of Hoover's FBI files along with the Big Red scare haven't left the minds of our people. Between privacy laws, FOIA, and groups like the ACLU, a career FBI guy is hanging his livelihood on the line and possibly risking criminal conviction to keep such information.

That said, the private companies are a very different story and they aren't subject to FOIA or a multitude of other regs that restrict the FBI. The data bases that private investigators can access are quite frightening. Everything you've ever put on a credit card application is in a data base that is more complete than the government is allowed to have, but the PIs can legally have.

Data management technology is getting pretty impressive and the private sector is starting to use it in ways that we have long said the government can't.

[Guest DefensiveGuy]

Sorry about my first answer. I misunderstood the question:rolleyes:

I have no idea if the prints are kept. It would be interesting to know but once they are scanned and sent out in bits and bytes, who knows for absolute sure.

Yep it made me a bit uneasy getting the thumbprint (prior to July 1) to purchase and the HCP full set of prints.

I had to keep telling myself that it was to weed out the felons.

I'm one week into the big wait now.

[9teeneleven]

Federal big brother really does not scare me at this point in time. A number of government beauracrats have been run through the coals and the days of Hoover's FBI files along with the Big Red scare haven't left the minds of our people. Between privacy laws, FOIA, and groups like the ACLU, a career FBI guy is hanging his livelihood on the line and possibly risking criminal conviction to keep such information.

That said, the private companies are a very different story and they aren't subject to FOIA or a multitude of other regs that restrict the FBI. The data bases that private investigators can access are quite frightening. Everything you've ever put on a credit card application is in a data base that is more complete than the government is allowed to have, but the PIs can legally have.

Data management technology is getting pretty impressive and the private sector is starting to use it in ways that we have long said the government can't.

This is a good point. Read an article a few weeks ago about how credit card companies mine your every purchase. Purchase certain products? You may be more at risk to default, and have your interest rate raised simply because of the items you've bought. I worry less that the TBI knows what guns I own, and more that private companies willing to mine and sell purchase information know everything I have bought at a gun store if I use a credit card. I pay cash or Postal M.O. for every gun I buy.

[Guest 3pugguy]

I think in these times of technology they probably retain them somehow electronically. And take faith in being a good person, hoping the information doesn't somehow come back and haunt me.

Yes, other states are lax about giving out permits. And that kinda bothers me...

But that is a really good question, I know when I applied & signed the magic line I pretty much gave authorization for the TBI & FBI to do whatever they want, but I'm sure they're not going to say, sell this information off or somehow use it against me.

I was feeling kinda "exposed" getting fingerprinted. People get in trouble and have no choice in the matter, but I voluntairly did so. But it was worth it, getting the HCP card in the mail makes that ouch go away!

Since I was fingerprinted for the Navy, then for a job I held in California that had strict background checks, I did not give it a second thought when doing my HCP prints.

[Guest canynracer]

Does anyone else feel weird that a) the whole fingerprinting process is outsourced to a private company (cogent), and the fingerprinting is done at another private business (the UPS store)? All a little to 1984 for me. Not only does the government now have my prints, but at least one private company.

IF UPS store was the only ones doing it, yes, that would be weird...

but they arent...there are several places to get them done, some electronic, some are not.

[Guest proudsuthrner]

i have no idea what they do with them, but i'm sure that my fingerprints will be in a database somewhere for atleast the rest of my life. only because i was in the military.

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I guess fingerprinting is "outsourced" because those machines are big $$... but the place I got mine done at was a youth counceling service - not for profit - and the lady was grumbling about the state owing her money...

but I guess if the whole fingerprinting process was causing any problems (such as honest joe citizen being pinned for prints they found at a crime scene 1,000 miles away) I like to think we would hear about it by now.

My only gripe about the whole process is not knowing what information (FBI, TBI, state) has about me. When you get a check on your credit done, they have to offer you a copy of that information (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time) so I think it's reasonable they should offer the same. After all I paid for it!