Legal carry in church?

[Timberdoodle]

Hey guys, I do not post often, but visit the site very often.

I have a question. I am a little confused. OK Im always confused.

I was at a rehersal dinner at a church this weekend. We were going thru the moves and I sat down in a pew during some dead time. My brother-in-law sat down next to me and pulled out a new glock that he purchased. He was just wanting to brag on it.

I was under the impression that it was illegal to carry in a church. Is it legal or a non carry situation?

Thank you in advance!

[Guest pjblurton]

Not unless the church is posted.....

Now whipping out your Glock in the middle of Church...Not so smart....

[ttocswob]

Legal in TN - & I practice what I preach .

[Guest bkelm18]

There are very few places in TN that are automatically off limits. Churches are not one of them. They have to be posted like anywhere else.

[Guest db99wj]

An exception: My church is off limits.....there is a school too. Same property.

[BigPoppa]

Not unless the church is posted.....

Now whipping out your Glock in the middle of Church...Not so smart....

Yes. what he said.........................

[Guest bkelm18]

An exception: My church is off limits.....there is a school too. Same property.

That's true. If the church is also a school, then it would be off limits.

[E4 No More]

Personally, I'd ask the preacher how he felt about it. I did.

[Timberdoodle]

Not unless the church is posted.....

Now whipping out your Glock in the middle of Church...Not so smart....

Thank you. I was under the impression that they were off limits.

As for whipping out the glock, he was showing it to me in a very discrete manner. No one was anywhere within sight of where we were. He was very professional and safe about the whole thing. I just thought that it was a no-no to have it at a church, but was not posative.

Now, is a daycare for children off limits? I always disarm when taking my son into daycare. I figure it is probably considered a school type situation. Am I correct or is it ok if not posted?

[Guest bkelm18]

To be honest, I'm not sure what the state considers a school.

[macville]

That's true. If the church is also a school, then it would be off limits.

Does anyone know how this exactly works? I am wondering about carrying at my church because we evidently offer some kind of "school" classes (I thought it was just daycare)

The law says:

[39-17-1309:

( (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.]

I also noticed that it says: (d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6²) high and fourteen inches (14²) wide, stating

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), “prominent locations about a school†includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias.

------

Okay, that said, I am still not sure if my church applies. First, the classes are Preschool, Full Time Preschool (day care!), State Certified Accredited Kindergarten (which is what may apply),

Kindergarten/First Grade Cooperative Program (which is a homeschool type program) & 2nd-5th Grade Tutorial/Enrichment (sounds like an in room tutor)

But here's the kicker. NO WHERE on the property does it have the proper sign posted required by law. Would I assume that by that, the classes my church offers do not qualify to be a "school"? Or are they just idiots (which wouldn't surprise me!) and totally ignored the law about posting nice big signs. It's kinda of a big deal because I go there a lot as a youth leader and don't want to be committing a crime by carrying.

Matthew

[Guest bkelm18]

Does anyone know how this exactly works? I am wondering about carrying at my church because we evidently offer some kind of "school" classes (I thought it was just daycare)

The law says:

[39-17-1309:

( (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.]

I also noticed that it says: (d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6²) high and fourteen inches (14²) wide, stating

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), “prominent locations about a school†includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias.

------

Okay, that said, I am still not sure if my church applies. First, the classes are Preschool, Full Time Preschool (day care!), State Certified Accredited Kindergarten (which is what may apply),

Kindergarten/First Grade Cooperative Program (which is a homeschool type program) & 2nd-5th Grade Tutorial/Enrichment (sounds like an in room tutor)

But here's the kicker. NO WHERE on the property does it have the proper sign posted required by law. Would I assume that by that, the classes my church offers do not qualify to be a "school"? Or are they just idiots (which wouldn't surprise me!) and totally ignored the law about posting nice big signs. It's kinda of a big deal because I go there a lot as a youth leader and don't want to be committing a crime by carrying.

Matthew

I think the "State Accredited Kindergarten" is what would get you. It's possible they are ignorant of the law and haven't posted signs.

[daddyo]

As has been said, not illegal to carry in a church unless they've posted. I think it's a good idea to have permission from a minister, though.

And, I agree, whipping out your weapon in that setting is stupid. There are plenty of sheep in churches, and some of them don't like sheepdogs (until the wolf shows up, of course).

[macville]

I think the "State Accredited Kindergarten" is what would get you. It's possible they are ignorant of the law and haven't posted signs.

So do you have any suggestions how I might find out if it's legal to carry or not?

Matthew

[Guest bkelm18]

So do you have any suggestions how I might find out if it's legal to carry or not?

Matthew

Not sure to be honest. We could always submit for an AG Opinion on what he considers a school with regard to carrying. Perhaps one of the lawyers on the board here could speak up if they have an idea.

[Guest redbarron06]

I would say that the kindergarden thing would get you. As far as it not being posted that would be the responsibility of the school and would not be a defense on your part.

[Steelharp]

There are so many that carry at my church... it's awesome...

[Guest bkelm18]

I would say that the kindergarden thing would get you. As far as it not being posted that would be the responsibility of the school and would not be a defense on your part.

Yeah, carrying in a restaurant that's not properly posted= Ok. Carrying in a school that's not properly posted= Hope you like dudes named Bubba.

[macville]

Okay, found the school on this website: TN:Ed:SDE Directory Home Page which makes me believe it would qualify as a "school" as they rent my church buildings. It's really absurd that I can't carry on Sunday morning and Wednesday nights because a school for 5 year old's meets there 5 days a week. I'm glad to see that some 5 year old is "supposedly" safer because I can not carry my firearm on the same property.

Gag me.

Matthew

[daddyo]

If I weren't allowed to carry in my church, I think I'd be looking for another house of worship.

[Guest TNK]

I really don't see why it would be any of the preacher's business or anyone else's at the church. It might destract people if you have it open, so I wouldn't do that. I also turn my phone off so that I wont distract people also...lol. You have it to protect your family and yourself. The church doesn't belong to the preacher its everyone's who attends. If I was gonna ask anyone it would be the elders, but hey I shoot with those guys so im sure they don't care lol.

[Guest Swamprunner]

I don't do that. House of the LORD and all of that. I leave my shootin' iron out in the truck, but on Wednesday nights, I still have my holster on. In our church handbook, it is prohibited. That being said, I fully support the leadership of our church, and feel they were inspired to address this issue. Until this changes, I'll support the church leadership. A sign of legal dimensions is not necessary. Now then, if a member is found to be in possession of a firearm, I'll quietly counsel him/her, and not make a big deal of it. If a bad guy comes in to cause harm, I guess I'll be bringin' my SOG to a gun fight.

[TNTitan]

To be honest, I'm not sure what the state considers a school.

Im wondering this too.. what about people who home school?

[Guest Marine03]

On Sundays and Wed nights school isn't in session therfore would you still be carrying at a school if you're there for church? I would think the argument could be made that if school isn't in that it is then a church building not a school building. I would say it depends on what is going on at the time (school or church). I don't know what the law states thats just my reasoning. I carry in my church which also has a school k-12. It's only 2 miles from a minimum security prison and 1 mile from a loony bin. Occupants of both have been known to wander in. But I also know of 6-10 others that are packing too.

[Guest Marine03]

Im wondering this too.. what about people who home school?

I cleaned my guns during school. Home schooling has many benefits.