Correspondence with Memphis city council

[LagerHead]

I sent the following to the Memphis city council, and here is what followed:

Dear Memphis City Council Members,

I have been following the results of House Bill 962, which allows Handgun Carry Permit holders to carry their guns in restaurants. As a result I came across a story about metal detectors at the entrance to Beale Street. It is my understanding that even outside restaurants, on the street, where it is perfectly legal to carry, you are harassing law-abiding citizens to ensure they don't exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. While I recognize the fact that the Tennessee legislature has seen fit to allow restaurant owners to choose to deny me this right, I'm not sure what the motivation behind your warrantless searches on a public street are.

I would like to invite you to read the followin

I would like to point out a few statistics regarding gun owners and crime which have apparently been ignored in Memphis. This is taken from Gun Facts by Guy Smith. I would highly recommend reading the pamphlet in its entirety. The following is in response to the myth that concealed carry laws increase crime:

Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.1

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).2

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second.3 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.4

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws5:

Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.6

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995,7 the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.8

Type of Crime % Higher in Restrictive States

Robbery 105%

Murder 86%

Assault 82%

Violent Crime 81%

Auto theft 60%

Rape 25%

1 Florida Department of Justice, 1998

2 Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Cramer C and Kopel D. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994

3 Some criminologist believe measuring first year change is shortsighted as it takes more than a year for permits to be issued, reach critical quantities, and for the criminally minded to recognize the new situation and avoid violent confrontations.

4 Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001.

5 Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, Lott, John R., and Mustard, David B. J. of Legal Studies, vol.26, n.1, pp.1-68 (Jan. 1997): This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S., from 1977 through 1992. During this time ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the US would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults – and saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.

6 FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 2004 - excludes Hawaii and Rhode Island - small populations and geographic isolation create other determinants to violent crime.

7 Federal legislation created a nation “gun-free schools” policy, effective in 1996. Some criminologists maintain this created a new dynamic, encouraging mass murder on campus. Thus after 1995 it is increasing difficult to make comparisons based on the effects of CCWs and mass shootings.

8 Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, John Lott and William Landes, Law School of the University of Chicago, Law & Economics Working Paper No. 73

Until Memphis changes its policy and abandons its policy to harass me needlessly when entering Beale Street, I and countless other permit holders will find other places to spend our hard earned dollars on vacation.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

Robert

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Thanks however I will forward info from the MPD on crimes committed by legal gun permit owners

Respectfully

Janis Fullilove

City Council Dis 8 P2

576-6786

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Dear Ms. Fullilove,

Believe it or not, I would appreciate that very much. I would like to see every single one of them. But not unless you include every single gun crime comitted by those who were carrying illegally with it. You should be able to have the former done in no time; the latter, however, will take a considerable amount of time. Therefore, I patiently await your response.

Sincerely,

Robert

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This was just sent. I will let you know what else, if anything, transpires.

[G27]

Don't hold your breath. Memphis is a crap-hole because of the city council.

Nice collection of facts, though...

[Guest db99wj]

Very nice, let us know what Janice Fullofdrugs has to say about this.

[Guest Khitan]

I just spoke with Performa Management, according to them the City of Memphis left the decision of banning guns on the Public Street called Beale up to Performa Management. (901.526.0115)

Now, I'm trying to understand how the City can give a private entity the right to do something that even the City can't decide.

I'm investigating further.

[Guest redbarron06]

I just spoke with Performa Management, according to them the City of Memphis left the decision of banning guns on the Public Street called Beale up to Performa Management. (901.526.0115)

Now, I'm trying to understand how the City can give a private entity the right to do something that even the City can't decide.

I'm investigating further.

I would think that would not be legal beacuse it is a public street and no private company can have jurisdiction over it.

[G27]

I just spoke with Performa Management, according to them the City of Memphis left the decision of banning guns on the Public Street called Beale up to Performa Management. (901.526.0115)

Now, I'm trying to understand how the City can give a private entity the right to do something that even the City can't decide.

I'm investigating further.

Interestinger and interestinger...

[Guest 270win]

Memphis does not care. The city council is full of crack heads and criminals. They cater to their own kind, which are crack heads and criminals. I'd carry if I went to a park in Memphis and conceal it well. It's not like there are metal detectors and the gang bangers are sure carrying theirs. If they can't keep the hookers and drug dealers off the streets, I doubt you'd have any problems hiding a small handgun on you with a permit in a park in Memphis.

I've carried mine pretty much everywhere in Memphis city limits that it is not a felony (school grounds and courtrooms) and will continue to do so. I don't advocate breaking laws, but the crime is so bad in that city, and I know how and what to conceal, that I'll continue to do what I need to do to protect myself if I have to go into Memphis for whatever reason. I try to avoid it whenever I can.

Edited July 22, 2009 by 270win

[LagerHead]

Memphis does not care. The city council is full of crack heads and criminals. They cater to their own kind, which are crack heads and criminals. I'd carry if I went to a park in Memphis and conceal it well. It's not like there are metal detectors and the gang bangers are sure carrying theirs. If they can't keep the hookers and drug dealers off the streets, I doubt you'd have any problems hiding a small handgun on you with a permit in a park in Memphis.

I've carried mine pretty much everywhere in Memphis city limits that it is not a felony (school grounds and courtrooms) and will continue to do so. I don't advocate breaking laws, but the crime is so bad in that city, and I know how and what to conceal, that I'll continue to do what I need to do to protect myself if I have to go into Memphis for whatever reason. I try to avoid it whenever I can.

Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, huh? You nutcase!

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Memphis does not care. The city council is full of crack heads and criminals. They cater to their own kind, which are crack heads and criminals. I'd carry if I went to a park in Memphis and conceal it well. It's not like there are metal detectors and the gang bangers are sure carrying theirs. If they can't keep the hookers and drug dealers off the streets, I doubt you'd have any problems hiding a small handgun on you with a permit in a park in Memphis.

I've carried mine pretty much everywhere in Memphis city limits that it is not a felony (school grounds and courtrooms) and will continue to do so. I don't advocate breaking laws, but the crime is so bad in that city, and I know how and what to conceal, that I'll continue to do what I need to do to protect myself if I have to go into Memphis for whatever reason. I try to avoid it whenever I can.

razorback2003 - you must be one of those vigilantes that we heard so much about in the news recently.

[Guest db99wj]

I believe Beale Street has been deemed a Special Entertainment district, and know for sure Performa is the management company.

I have been downtown a lot recently, on job assignments, during the day, and everytime, Beale Street is barricaded (closed to through traffic, delivery trucks, maintenance trucks, etc ok) between 2nd and 4th streets going east-west. No special events going on, nothing. Just during normal day time hours. You can cross Beale at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

I've got an email out to someone that will know. Hopefully I will hear back soon. I will let everyone know.

[Guest Khitan]

I just confirmed with the City Attorneys office, Beale street was leased to the Beale Street Merchants Association, so it is no longer a public street. It is considered private property of the BSMA, so they can do what they like with it.

[Guest db99wj]

I just confirmed with the City Attorneys office, Beale street was leased to the Beale Street Merchants Association, so it is no longer a public street. It is considered private property of the BSMA, so they can do what they like with it.

Ha, just got word back from contact, same thing. The City Council made a "special city council resolution" making it that, so they could lease it, and close it down. He did say it is open to through traffic some times, but they can close it whenever and it is closed during certain times. He went on to say, that you can look at the street as being a "yard" for all the establishments on Beale, thus their property, thus not being able to walk down Beales with your permit.

[Guest nokomom]

Well then I would like to draft a proposal for MY street in Central Gardens and make it private too. They can consider my street the "yard" of all of the residents that live here. We can put up big iron gates at the entrances and keep out all of the people who don't belong here. With less crackheads roaming up and down my street freely crime should go down and we could sleep easier at night. Imagine the outcry if we put up a big security fence around Central Gardens!

[TripleDigitRide]

Well then I would like to draft a proposal for MY street in Central Gardens and make it private too. They can consider my street the "yard" of all of the residents that live here. We can put up big iron gates at the entrances and keep out all of the people who don't belong here. With less crackheads roaming up and down my street freely crime should go down and we could sleep easier at night. Imagine the outcry if we put up a big security fence around Central Gardens!

You'd have to be as naturally crooked as the local governemnt. It's probably safe to say you're not, so you'd be better off moving to your East.

[Guest nokomom]

Knee-jerk reactions like the city council leasing Beale opens the doors to all kinds of other silliness. Where will it stop? Will it ever end?

[TripleDigitRide]

Where will it stop?

If/When the People decide it's time to take back our Country.

Will it ever end?

If/When the People decide it's time to take back our Country.

Until then, the American People will continue to be treated like sheeple strug-out on large doeses of scopolamine.