Demos Banning Guns - My Correspondence with owner

[Mike.357]

hex says

it's not the same as the restaurant deal,

it is the same thing. Not allowed to possess the gun. That is the bottom line.

I do not differentiate the why's in the matter.

I refuse to not live life because of a gun.

If I want to go somewhere or eat somewhere I will, if the gun is not welcome then it can stay behind.

If I feel I must have a gun to go somewhere, I am not going anyway.

[Volzfan]

David:

Thank you for writing us about your position on guns in restaurants. As a gun owner myself, I know the arguments for allowing guns. I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns. I also spoke with several police officers as well. I knew no matter which way we decided, we would lose customers. Also, I knew that 80% of restaurants surveyed were going to post no guns along with shopping malls that have already decided on this issue. This was purely a business decision based on the facts that I had in front of me at the time.

I understand your position that many people with concealed guns were eating with us prior to this law, but this was illegal in all restaurants that served alcohol prior to this law as well. However, this was a personal choice of our customer, and not something that we can't enforce now anyway.

I understand if you do not want to eat with us, and I really hope you change your mind. I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.

I hope you understand that I do not want to lose a customer, and I have lost sleep over this decision. Regardless of what I choose, I am going to be wrong.

Again, please help me change this law where the legislature will do the right thing instead of trying to save their chances for re-election by riding the fence.

Thank you,

Peter

Peter Demos

President

Demos' Restaurants

1119 NW Broad St

Murfreesboro TN, 37129

615-225-8797

615-962-9285 (fax)

[GLOCKMEISTER]

but his opinion is wrong... I 'd like to see the 80% of places that are going to post!!!

He's lieing out his azz, period.

I'd love to make an example out of him on this issue... and cost him lots of $$$$!!!!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I have been emailing him back and forth all day... I'll keep ya'll posted. FYI I think hes about to break.

Heres what I sent him.

To whom it may concern,

I'm writing this with a heavy heart that's full of regret. I have recently been made aware of your decision to place bans on the legal carrying of firearms in your business establishments. I have been a loyal customer and legal carry permit holder for 15 years. I was also a police officer for 10 years. I now feel discriminated against by your place of business. You are alienating close to 300,000 of Tennessee's most law abiding and honest citizens. People that have been patronizing yours as well as other business establishments for over 15 years without any negative incidences. I will not continue to patronize your business as long as any ban exist taking away my legal ability to protect myself and my family.

What you might not know or understand is handgun permit holders have to complete and pass background checks to be able to purchase a handgun. Handgun permit holders also have to pass extensive TBI, FBI, Local, and International background checks to be able to legally carry their handguns. In order to pass these background checks they can have NO ALCOHOL related arrests in the last 5-10 years. So were not dealing with a bunch of drunks that's going to break the law. These are the best and most law abiding of our citizens.

Like I said this ban cant just be about alcohol because permit holders wont be able to drink. So its really no difference then them carrying in Wendy's or Shoneys like they have been for 15 years! This seems to be about infringing on our constitutional right to "keep and bear arms"... This right might I add was given first by God, then by our Constitution, and finally by our legislature. This issue is also about higher crime and the need for honest citizens to be able to protect themselves. They haven't had a problem in 35 other states, like Georgia and Kentucky with similar legislation and they wont in Tennessee.

Have you thought about the liability issues that involve your decision? If permit holders decide not to ban your establishment, by opting out of the state law, are you not opening yourself up to litigation? If a customer had the ways and means in protecting themselves, but couldn't, and you didn't provide adequate security or lighting? Wouldn't you be liable? You wouldn't be if you just followed the letter of the law. Your opting out may open up a larger can of worms.

I wonder if those that have been murdered in or around these restaurants had a voice would they agree with your limits on their defense? Let me give you just a few examples off the top of my head. Do you remember or know who Paul Reid is? He's a mass serial killer that preyed on Middle Tennessee Restaurants back in 1997. He was convicted of at least 7 deaths but was suspected of many more. Who can forget the young people killed in the execution-style murders at Bellacino's Pizza here in Nashville back in 2007? Do you remember the robbery and murder of O'Charleys manager Nadir Bahmanziari just last year?

How about the latest, stalker and murderer Hank Wise ambushed and killed Ben Goeser at Johnny's Sports Bar, here in Nashville, on April 2, 2009. His widow Nikki was on the Senate floor when they voted to override the Governors veto. What you may not know is Ben and Nikki Goeser had a Handgun Carry Permits but chose to be law abiding citizens and left their firearms in their vehicle. They wanted to carry for protection but legally couldn't and chose to obey the law. They weren't drinking that night, they simply were there for karaoke. They both had extensive firearms training and knew what the stalker Hank Wise looked like. If one of them had been armed Ben would have at least had a chance to live. Instead poor Nikki had to watch her husband get gunned down and murdered by a criminal. She had time to call 911 before shots were fired, so where were the police? Btw, what law stopped Hank Wise from bringing his illegal gun into the bar? Nothing... criminals don't follow rules!!!

The legislature gave business owners that don't want to participate in this legal activity the right to opt out by placing legal signage on their business entrances. We as patronizers have the right not to do business with them. Some will post signage banning, but statistics show most wont. They don't want to alienate a certain legal class of citizens. Citizens that have been deemed safe... citizens with $$$$. They realize those persons have been eating in other restaurants like Wendy's and Capt. D's for many years with no problem. They have been eating in your restaurant, but chose to follow the rules. Why now are you so scared they will break them all the sudden? Do you realize how many the chain restaurants that are doing business in those other 35 states elected to not post signs? O'Charleys, Longhorn, Chilies, Logan's... again with so far no problems!!!

In closing I have chosen to take my money to those places that will not alienate and discriminate against me. Those places that respect my rights and will allow me the ability to protect myself. Criminals will carry firearms into your business, they always have and nothing you can do will change that. Your actions only limit the law abiding, and make it public knowledge to criminals that no one on the premises can stop them. I hope you reconsider your decision, I really love your food.

Phillip Arrington

-------------------------

Heres what he sent back... notivce he said he hasnt posted and it seemed he may be rethining the issue a bit. I think we need to keep the emails flowing.

Phillip:

Thank you for writing us about your position on guns in restaurants. As a gun owner myself, I know the arguments for allowing guns. I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns. I also spoke with several police officers as well. I knew no matter which way we decided, we would lose customers. Also, I knew that 80% of restaurants surveyed were going to post no guns along with shopping malls that have already decided on this issue. This was purely a business decision based on the facts that I had in front of me at the time.

I am aware of the liability issues as well. There have been many insurance companies that have told restaurants they are going up on rates or dropping them if they allow guns. This has not happened to us, but we are up for renewal next month, so we will see.

I know the screening process people must go through, but unfortunately, I did not hear from many people who wanted guns until after the decision was made. I will consider more of this, and I still have not posted the signs.

I understand if you do not want to eat with us, and I really hope you change your mind. I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.

I hope you understand that I do not want to lose a customer, and I have lost sleep over this decision. Regardless of what I choose, I am going to be wrong, and people will be disappointed in us.

Again, please help me change this law where the legislature will do the right thing instead of trying to save their chances for re-election by riding the fence.

Thank you,

Peter

Peter Demos

President

Demos' Restaurants

1119 NW Broad St

Murfreesboro TN, 37129

615-225-8797

615-962-9285 (fax)

------------------------------------------

heres my last response to him...

Peter,

Respectfully I disagree with your reasoning about this issue. I think when

its all said and done you will find out that over 90% of the restaurateurs

will end up respecting the new law and their customers right to protection.

This is what has happened in every other state where this type of

legislation exists. None of the big chains are opting out as far as I can

tell, why should you?

Honestly I think you didn't hear from many permit holders about this issue,

because we never dreamed you would make it in this negative way. How many

calls/emails have you received since it was publicized?

I have been doing research on the Insurance issue. I haven't found any

companies that have told their customers their rates would rise or their

policies canceled if they simply abide by the law. Again this law is present

in 35 other states and this rate/cancellation thing hasn't happened in any

of those states. I don't see where this is an issue. You have to look at the

big picture. What are you prepared to do to insure my families safety while

dining with you or going to and from my vehicle? If something happens are

you prepared for the liability or at least the bad press an incident would

receive? Can you imagine how the NRA would spin it so out of control?

On the legislative issue, they didn't ride the fence. That part of the law

has been in effect since 1994. Business owners have always had the right to

properly post their businesses to not honor permits. As of right now I'd say

99% honor them. Back in 1994 companies all over, some as big as Wal-Mart,

decided they had nothing to fear from law abiding citizens. There were a

very few that posted, but after a few months of losing business and seeing

there was not a threat they took their signs down. Crime also tripled in

some of those businesses when they posted. Blockbuster videos were robbed

almost nightly back in 94 until they took their signs down. Criminals

stopped robbing them when they realized they were no longer a soft target.

Other businesses also couldn't afford to provide adequate security to

protect their staffs and customers from these new criminal threats, so they

took their signs down too. So in short, the legislature did their job, they

passed the law the people wanted.

As of right now I honestly hesitate to continue dining with you period

because of your knee jerk reaction to this new law. However I will tell you

this, if you do decide to respect our constitutional and God given right to

protect ourselves, and not post signage, I will be a customer for life.

Thanks You,

Phillip Arrington

Then He said unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him

take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let

him sell his garment, and buy one. "

Luke 22:36

[Mike.357]

Demos writes

and I still have not posted the signs.

look to me that you all are good to go there.

[Guest HexHead]

but his opinion is wrong... I 'd like to see the 80% of places that are going to post!!!

He's lieing out his azz, period.

I'd love to make an example out of him on this issue... and cost him lots of $$$$!!!!

I think that 80% number he's using is the TN Hospitality Assn.'s fuzzy math. According to the article in the Tennessean, they sent out 650 questionnaires to their member ship and got 100 responses. That's about a 15% response rate. Of those 100 responses, 78 said they were going to post, which is a total of about 12% of their membership. I would imagine only those that planned to post or were fervent about the issue even bothered to respond to them. So in reality, 12% of the THA establishments are going to post, which is a more realistic figure.

As for the 80% of the 150 phone calls he got that said they wouldn't eat there if he didn't post, he should realize that liberals never follow through on anything they say. They are weak by definition. They may stay away for a week or two, but don't have the commitment or the backbone that an HCP holder does.

But I agree, we should make an example out of him.

[Guest m&pc9]

Those were excellent letters Phil.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

THANK YOU... We need more written besides me, looks like he's on the ropes on this issue!

[Guest HexHead]

Putting up a sign that discriminates against legal, licensed HCP holders that have been vetted by the state is really no different than putting up a sign that says "No Blacks" or "No Gays".

[VolunteerGuns]

guns in restaurants

Inbox

X

Peter Demos

to me

show details 12:23 PM (4 hours ago)

Reply

Adam:

Thank you for writing us about your position on guns in restaurants. As a gun owner myself, I know the arguments for allowing guns. I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns. I also spoke with several police officers as well. I knew no matter which way we decided, we would lose customers. Also, I knew that 80% of restaurants surveyed were going to post no guns along with shopping malls that have already decided on this issue. This was purely a business decision based on the facts that I had in front of me at the time.

I know the commitment that people who have carry permits have, but unfortunately, I did not hear from many people who wanted guns until after the decision was made. I will consider more of this, and I still have not posted the signs. I hope that these sites you refer to do not post our name until these signs go up as this will create more problems for both sides.

I understand if you do not want to eat with us, and I really hope you change your mind. I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.

I hope you understand that I do not want to lose a customer, and I have lost sleep over this decision. Regardless of what I choose, I am going to be wrong, and people will be disappointed in us.

Again, please help me change this law where the legislature will do the right thing instead of trying to save their chances for re-election by riding the fence.

Thank you,

Peter

Peter Demos

President

Demos' Restaurants

1119 NW Broad St

Murfreesboro TN, 37129

615-225-8797

615-962-9285 (fax)

"There are two ways of meeting difficulties: you alter the difficulties or you alter yourself meeting them."

-Phyllis Bottome, Author

[VolunteerGuns]

{I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns}

If we keep this mail/email campaign up his figures will change RAPIDO!!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

dude... you didnt tell him this was on the net did you?

[Guest HexHead]

THANK YOU... We need more written besides me, looks like he's on the ropes on this issue!

Just sent this to him via "Contact Us"....

To Peter Demos:

Although I live in Nashville, I used to eat at your Murfreesboro location whenever I was down there on business. In fact, I used to schedule going there on Wednesdays, since I liked your daily specials that day.

I've never gone to your Nashville location, because I wouldn't eat at restaurants downtown since I refuse to walk 3-4 blocks downtown at night to an unsafe parking facility. Now that restaurant carry has been granted by the State, I was looking forward to doing so. Well, after reading about you planning on posting your restaurants, that's not going to happen, and I won't be eating at any of your other locations either.

I see you've fallen to the Tennessean's and media's hysteria and that's a shame. You consider people that have had multiple background checks every 4 years and are vetted by the state unworthy of your hospitality. Putting up a sign to keep us out is discrimination, just as if you put up a sign that said "No Blacks" or "No Gays". Of course, that would be unthinkable. I'll miss your steaks and spaghetti, but there's plenty of other places willing to serve them to me... and make me feel welcome.

[Volzfan]

Here's their data about 80% that was in the Tennessean article that Mr. Demos was also in;

Walt Baker, CEO of the Tennessee Hospitality Association, said his group has received about 100 responses to a statewide survey of 650 restaurant owners. He said 78 percent of the respondents said they would ban guns on their premises.

It says that 78 out of the 100 who responded, which is close to 80%. However they sent a survey to 650. So 78 out of 650 surveys sent out is only 12%. I'm guessing that the other 550 didn't think is was important enough to respond to the Tennessee Hospitality Association.

[Guest m&pc9]

Just sent this to him via "Contact Us"....

I would like to see his response about being discriminated against.

[VolunteerGuns]

dude... you didnt tell him this was on the net did you?

No. Only told him that if/when he chooses to post his business, he will be marked as HCP unfriendly, and that info has a way of circulating. Not only will (websites etc.) state his view of permit holders, but will offer alternatives for us to patronize who share our ideals and choose not to restrict us from legal carry.

[Guest tonybon]

just got a reply email so i thought i would share:::::Anthony:Thank you for writing us about your position on guns in restaurants. I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns. I also spoke with several police officers as well. I knew no matter which way we decided, we would lose customers. Also, I knew that 80% of restaurants surveyed were going to post no guns along with shopping malls that have already decided on this issue. This was purely a business decision based on the facts that I had in front of me at the time.I understand if you do not want to eat with us, and I really hope you change your mind. Please do not mail your gift certificate back to us as you can still use this to buy carry out. We really do not want to be in this position, and I hate that I am.I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.I hope you understand that I do not want to lose a customer, and I have lost sleep over this decision. Regardless of what I choose, I am going to be wrong.Again, please help me change this law where the legislature will do the right thing instead of trying to save their chances for re-election by riding the fenceThank you,PeterPeter DemosPresidentDemos' Restaurants1119 NW Broad StMurfreesboro TN, 37129615-225-8797615-962-9285 (fax)"There are two ways of meeting difficulties: you alter the difficulties or you alter yourself meeting them."-Phyllis Bottome, Author

[MudBugjr]

Seems like a great form reply they keep sending out. If I'm not wrong they own and operate Toots as well. I'm thinking about stopping by their office in the Boro. So have they actually posted as of yet with signage and all?

[56FordGuy]

Seems like a great form reply they keep sending out. If I'm not wrong they own and operate Toots as well. I'm thinking about stopping by their office in the Boro. So have they actually posted as of yet with signage and all?

I believe that they sold Toots, and it is now owned by someone else.

[Guest HexHead]

Saw this on their website. 'Splains a lot....

Peter graduated from Middle Tennessee State University with a degree in Sociology in 1995, and received his Jurist Doctorate from University of Missouri-Kansas City in 1998. He became a member of the Tennessee Bar Association in 1999. Peter currently sits on the Board of Directors for the Rutherford County Chamber of Commerce, board for Rutherford County Convention and Visitors Bureau as the Treasurer, the board for Leadership Rutherford, and chairs the Government Affairs Council for the Rutherford County Chamber. Peter believes it's important that the restaurant gives back to the community. He exercises this belief through major fundraisers for Special Kids, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, Domestic Violence Shelters, United Way and various other homeless shelters and charities throughout Middle Tennessee.

Obviously a liberal.

[Guest tonybon]

Just mabey the HCP holders of Tennessee should form a council and do the charity thing for good press. Cant let them have all the "GOOD PRESS" my :2cents:'s

[Guest PUBBOY]

Nice job, Mick.

As usual you state your (our) case very eloquently.

I'll send them a letter as well.

[Mike.357]

Peter graduated from Middle Tennessee State University with a degree in Sociology in 1995, and received his Jurist Doctorate from University of Missouri-Kansas City in 1998. He became a member of the Tennessee Bar Association in 1999. Peter currently sits on the Board of Directors for the Rutherford County Chamber of Commerce, board for Rutherford County Convention and Visitors Bureau as the Treasurer, the board for Leadership Rutherford, and chairs the Government Affairs Council for the Rutherford County Chamber. Peter believes it's important that the restaurant gives back to the community. He exercises this belief through major fundraisers for Special Kids, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, Domestic Violence Shelters, United Way and various other homeless shelters and charities throughout Middle Tennessee.

hex writes

Obviously a liberal.

if he is a liberal on these qualifications, I think we need more liberals. Sounds like a hell of a guy in spite of his view on legal carry.

[Guest trigem]

That it's an open invitation to the bad guys to put up a sign that says my customers don't have guns!

By the way, went to Burger King last week (their not posted No Guns)

but they have a sign near the entry door that says there's a $25,000 reward for the conviction of anyone who does harm any of their employee's

Gee, they know it can be dangerous working at a restaurant:koolaid:

I wish we could put together a list of crimes at restaurants over the last few years...

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I find it hard to believe 150 people called Demos and said they weren't going to eat there if they allowed guns. :poop: big

Guess if I ever get the opportunity to eat there again I'm going to leave the gun at home, get drunk, make a mess within a 3 foot radius of my table, abuse the waiter, and leave no tip. You know what? I think I'm going to find someplace near where I live that has posted and do just that!