Demos Banning Guns - My Correspondence with owner

[Volzfan]

I just wanted to send a quick note about the Tennessean article where you said that you were not going to allow law abiding HCP holders to carry in your restaurants. Unfortunately, I'll have to add Demos' to the list of restaurants that I'll no longer be able to visit. I know that you've got a great business and even in this tough economic time you apparently don't need my dollars.

I have been going to the restaurants that don't serve alcohol for years with my handgun and have never had a problem with anyone identifying me as someone with a gun. Most people in TN have been dining with us for years without having any clue that we are sitting at the next table. The only reason for their fears now is the way the media have portrayed those of us who carry a weapon for our own security. It seems that you have also fallen for the smear campaign that the media in TN is waging against us.

I would urge you to reconsider your decision to post your restaurants. Give us a 1 month trial and you will see that there will be no issues and the rest of you customers will not notice anything different.

Thank you for a wonderful eating experience and thank you for your thoughtful consideration of my request.

Respectfully

Volzfan

[Guest HexHead]

Could they even do that with private property? That just does not seem right.

Several other states have. IIRC, KY and GA are two of them.

And sure it does. The state tells businesses all the time things they have to or can't do. "HCP holders can carry into any restaurant". Pretty simple. The state doesn't allow them to post signs that blacks or gays aren't welcome.

Why are legal, licensed individuals that have been vetted by the state any different?

[Guest m&pc9]

The state tells businesses all the time things they have to or can't do. "HCP holders can carry into any restaurant". Pretty simple. The state doesn't allow them to post signs that blacks or gays aren't welcome

I never thought of it that way. I now feel like I am being discriminated against:(

[Guest Hyaloid]

I never thought of it that way. I now feel like I am being discriminated against:(

Help, help I am being repressed!

[Guest tonybon]

i just sent the email i had a free dinner card i ask them to give me a address where i could send it to them as i will not be needing it due to the no gun postings.

[Guest KWW67]

Man I hate that. I love their food.

Mr. Demos,

I would first like to begin by saying you have some of the best food in the business and I frequent your Lebanon store regularly. I am a non drinker, former law enforcement and a handgun permit holder. I must say I am saddened at your decision to post your business prohibiting lawful people from carrying on their person in your restaurant. I carry in restaurants everyday, non serving establishments before the law of course, and never had a problem. I am truly sorry but I will no longer visit your restaurant, and I will encourage my family and friends to do the same. This includes large birthday and business gatherings I have arranged in the past. There are too many other big name and small name establishments who have refused this prohibition, and have expressed their belief in the 2nd amendment and faith in our governing body. The opt out was included as a courtesy to businesses and to avoid the appearance of ramming a law down private business. Again, I respect your stance, please respect mine. I have been asked several times "why do you need a gun?". I return with the question "Why do you insurance?" If you are so confident nothing will happen, then you should cancel all your insurance policies because it will never need to be used. If one keeps tabs on the news at all it should answer the question of why I need a gun. Being a former police officer I have seen first hand why law abiding citizens need to carry a gun. Should you ever decide to remove the posting from your door, I would be very eager to return to your great food. But until then I must support establishments that support my lawful rights.

[redstategunnut]

ADAPT AS YOU SEE FIT:

21 July 2009

Peter Demos

Demos’ Restaurant

1115 Northwest Broad Street

Murfreesboro, TN 37129

Re: Handgun Ban

Dear Mr. Demos,

It is with regret that I write this letter. I have long enjoyed your family’s great restaurants.

I am a 41-year-old, self-employed attorney and father of two. I make a comfortable living for my family and we dine out very often. I am also a local elected official, currently serving my third term on the Board of Mayor and Aldermen in Franklin, Tennessee. I also coach and sponsor little league baseball and football teams, and do other volunteer work in the community. I have never been arrested or charged with any crime. For the last fifteen years, I have been a handgun permit holder, and I have carried a handgun every day everywhere it is legal to do so.

Your decision to ban handguns from your restaurants is, of course, your decision to make, and I trust you must have your reasons to do so. This, however, will result in me not patronizing your restaurants so long as you maintain this ban. Most of the quarter million handgun permit holders in Tennessee likely will feel the same way, and we are a very passionate and committed bunch of people. Your restaurant has already been posted as banning handguns on numerous websites frequented by handgun permit holders. Those same websites are disseminating the name and location of restaurants that do not post, as well.

As handgun permit holders are by and large exceedingly inclined to obey the law, it is unlikely you will have any permit holders violate your posted ban, we simply won’t come to your restaurants. Despite the hyperbole and hysteria disseminated in the media, so far, I have not personally encountered a single restaurant that has posted a ban, I have only read about restaurants that have posted or plan to post a ban.

I wish you well in your endeavors and invite you to reconsider your position. If you would like to discuss this matter with me, you can contact me at your convenience.

Sincerely yours,

[ttocswob]

Letter sent - short version: Love your food, won't be back, since I made the difficult decision to get HCP and arm myself, other restaurants don't discriminate against lawful gun owners, you will be missed.

Demo's had great food, too.

[G27]

what he is saying is that nothing has changed at his restaurants. No guns on July 13 and no guns now. Same difference.

Well, from his perspective maybe.

From my perspective it's "Not allowed to defend myself on 07.13, still not allowed (though it's now his choice) on 07.14."

See the difference?

[G27]

I never thought of it that way. I now feel like I am being discriminated against:(

That's why I call it a civil liberty in discussions - it's truly what it is.

Heck, skin color and race aren't even mentioned in the BoR...

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

mhouston

Excellent letters to Demos'. For me it doesn't matter because I seem to be the one person in TN that never enjoyed Demos' at all. I will keep specific comments to myself. I am happy to see you have a very well thought out debate with them though. Even though we have now learned that their responses were more than likely corporate copy/paste, your side of the discussion was very well handled.

[E4 No More]

mhouston

Excellent letters to Demos'. For me it doesn't matter because I seem to be the one person in TN that never enjoyed Demos' at all. I will keep specific comments to myself. I am happy to see you have a very well thought out debate with them though. Even though we have now learned that their responses were more than likely corporate copy/paste, your side of the discussion was very well handled.

I've had supper there once, and I wasn't impressed. I wouldn't tell them that, however.

[VolunteerGuns]

Mail Sent

[Mike.357]

Well, from his perspective maybe.

From my perspective it's "Not allowed to defend myself on 07.13, still not allowed (though it's now his choice) on 07.14."

See the difference?

I see what you are saying. I understand the line of thought.

One thing I won't do, that is become such a gun nazi that I will refuse to go places or participate in the parts of life where my handgun is not welcome. I can't have my gun in the Smoky's but I really enjoy going there. I am still going to go. I like Hooter's chicken wings. They say no guns, but I am still going to go once in a while.

But also to each his own. I fully respect those that feel put upon over this thing. I blame the law makers for passing a chicken scratch bill that allows someone to pick and choose if they will follow a law or not.

It is a tough decision, really it is.

[G27]

I see what you are saying. I understand the line of thought.

One thing I won't do, that is become such a gun nazi that I will refuse to go places or participate in the parts of life where my handgun is not welcome. I can't have my gun in the Smoky's but I really enjoy going there. I am still going to go. I like Hooter's chicken wings. They say no guns, but I am still going to go once in a while.

But also to each his own. I fully respect those that feel put upon over this thing. I blame the law makers for passing a chicken scratch bill that allows someone to pick and choose if they will follow a law or not.

It is a tough decision, really it is.

QFT. Well said.

[-boatman-]

I see what you are saying. I understand the line of thought.

One thing I won't do, that is become such a gun nazi that I will refuse to go places or participate in the parts of life where my handgun is not welcome. I can't have my gun in the Smoky's but I really enjoy going there. I am still going to go. I like Hooter's chicken wings. They say no guns, but I am still going to go once in a while.

But also to each his own. I fully respect those that feel put upon over this thing. I blame the law makers for passing a chicken scratch bill that allows someone to pick and choose if they will follow a law or not.

It is a tough decision, really it is.

I know what you mean. While I will probably choose a place where I can carry, my wife will sooner or later want to go to a place where I cannot and I'll take her. You know, you gotta keep 'em happy and it won't be anything different than I have been doing anyway.

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I think it's a great thing when anyone goes out of their way to speak with / write a restaurant owner to reconsider their "no handgun" posting. I've been to Demos, thought it was great!

I bring up a question: why hasn't the media done any articles on what the process is to obtain a handgun carry permit? All I hear and see is articles about restaurants / bars who are posting, and their reasons for doing so, but nothing to support the permitted carriers.

[56FordGuy]

I bring up a question: why hasn't the media done any articles on what the process is to obtain a handgun carry permit? All I hear and see is articles about restaurants / bars who are posting, and their reasons for doing so, but nothing to support the permitted carriers.

The mass media is generally pretty biased toward the left, really.

[Guest HexHead]

One thing I won't do, that is become such a gun nazi that I will refuse to go places or participate in the parts of life where my handgun is not welcome. I can't have my gun in the Smoky's but I really enjoy going there. I am still going to go. I like Hooter's chicken wings. They say no guns, but I am still going to go once in a while.

It's not so much a "gun nazi" thing with me, more that I can be very principled, and choose not to financially support people I don't agree with. Case in point, during Nashville's "English Only" initiative, Tom Oreck moved his company here and got involved coming out against "English Only". Not only did I not buy more bags for my Oreck vacuum, I stuck it up in the attic and bought a Dyson to replace it. I wouldn't financially support someone I don't agree with. So it's not just guns.

I can't think of any restaurant I'd miss so much I'd trade my principles for a meal there.

And you'll be able to carry in the Smokies in Feb., it's not the same as the restaurant deal, law just hasn't taken effect yet.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Demos plans on posting no guns in their four locations. I wrote the owner today and wanted to share the conversation we had. Please take the time to write any restaurant that makes this choice. Unless we protect our rights they are meaningless...

Mick

Mr. Demos,

I was saddened today by an article that said you would be posting "No Guns" in your restaurant. You happen to be my favorite restaurant. I think your 12oz Sirloin is better than any other steak in town. My wife and daughter love your liquid sugar for the tea and the rolls are incredible. That being said, if you post "No Guns" I will not dine in your restaurant again.

You see I work in downtown Nashville at LifeWay. I do not drink in your restaurant nor intend to ever start. I have a concealed carry license by the state. That means the TBI has done a background check on me and found me to be a law abiding citizen. My families protection is more important than your food.

For some reason the media has twisted the law and called it Guns in Bars. Which isn't the case... It seems that for some reason concealed carry holders have been characterized as bad people. Tell me how many other people that dine with you today have had a background check by the TBI.

Concealed carry holders are just trying to take personal responsibility for their own safety for a variety of reasons. It is a second amendment right and the supreme court has upheld it in the recent Heller Case. I would recommend you do more research before reacting to the news media.

One thing you won't find in the news is concealed carry holders being arrested for shootings. Believe me, if that was the case it would be all over the news. Do your homework, we don't get arrested because we obey the law, are educated, and have good jobs and families.

By the way, your sign will do nothing but upset people like me. Criminals are criminals because they break the law. They don't pay attention to them or little signs with a bar through them.

I hope you will do some research and reconsider. We will miss the food but I can't allow someone to force me to leave my gun in my car in a parking garage in downtown Nashville. Why would I allow you to compromise my rights as a US citizen. You would not want me to do the same for you and your family.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Mick Houston

HIS RESPONSE

Dear Mr. Houston:

Thank you very much for your comments regarding our decision to not allow guns in Demos'. This was a very difficult decision, and frankly, I am very irritated with the State legislators to place the decision in our hands. No one in the hospitality industry wants to say "no" to anyone. It is against our nature as business people in the service industry. However, considering the phone calls we received on both sides of this issue, we were going to have to decide against someone's position causing them to choose to not eat with us.

I find it interesting that the State felt it was important enough to change the law, but that they considered the issue unimportant enough because they gave business owners an option to not follow it. They don't give us options on health regulations, employment laws, building codes, etc... Many of our "business friendly" legislators did not factor this in their decision.

This was equally disturbing to me as I am a big believer in 2nd Amendment rights, but prior to the new law, no one was allowed to carry guns in our restaurant anyway. We felt that since people were eating with us without fear of it being a dangerous place before, then we would continue with the practice.

Also, by continuing with not allowing guns in our restaurant, we do not have to manage who has a carry permit and who does not; who is drinking with a gun and who is not. Now, we can just not allow guns at all and let the police, who are trained in these matters handle a situation if we see a gun on our premises.

Again, I hate the fact that you will not visit our restaurant, and I hope you will change your mind one day. I write you this letter in the hope that you understand why we were forced by the State to choose the way we did. If you continue to feel strongly about this, I encourage you to contact your representatives to have them actually choose a position, and not leave it up to businesses that only want to

serve all of our customers regardless of their beliefs.

Thank you again for your comments.

Sincerely,

Peter Demos

P.S. A list of your legislators may be found at Legislators - TN General Assembly

MY REPLY

Mr. Demos,

I want to thank you for taking the time to reply. I understand your position and I also respect your decision. When you decide to take the signs down let me know because I will be back. I would like to respond to a couple of your comments just to give you something to think about. I am not expecting a reply, I know you are busy just like the rest of us.

This was equally disturbing to me as I am a big believer in 2nd Amendment rights, but prior to the new law, no one was allowed to carry guns in our restaurant anyway. We felt that since people were eating with us without fear of it being a dangerous place before, then we would continue with the practice.

I disagree... I was fearful every time I had to leave your restaurant. You see my rights were actually being infringed. There was just nothing I could do about it until the law was changed. That is not something I could complain to you at the time since it was the law. You could do nothing about it but now you can.

Why would you expect for anyone to be in fear now? Once again, the law only allows law abiding citizens who have passed a course and a background check to carry a gun in your restaurant. It is the law now. I agree with you that I don't think you should be given a choice but I am sure they felt that was necessary to allow you an option since you do serve alcohol.

Also, by continuing with not allowing guns in our restaurant, we do not have to manage who has a carry permit and who does not; who is drinking with a gun and who is not. Now, we can just not allow guns at all and let the police, who are trained in these matters handle a situation if we see a gun on our premises.

Short of posting a policeman at the door to protect all of us and to search everyone I don't see how or what the point would be to managing this issue. The law is clear on drinking with a handgun just as it is on drinking and driving. I don't see you managing the drinking and driving law in your restaurant. No one is getting a breathalyzer on the way out or getting there keys confiscated if they go to the bar.

You don't assume that everyone who drinks in your restaurant is going to break the law so why would you think I am going too?

To your point of those that have called you or sent you letters on the other side of the issue. I would submit to you that you are not infringing on their rights. Nothing will change for them... They will continue to eat with you and not do anything different. On the other hand the law has now given me the right but you are choosing to infringe on my right. Now I have a reason to take issue with your decision. I plan on supporting those restaurants that support the law and my rights. I wish you would give it a try first and double check the statistics before making this decision.

Thanks again for listening and responding. I would love to discuss further over coffee sometime. I think if you get to know some of us you might change your mind.

Thanks again,

Mick Houston

615-807-0397

Mick,

Thank you for taking on this issue with Demos and for presenting such a reasoned picture of a legal, law abiding gun owner and HCP holder. Such actions as this are what I think are the norm for folks here and in our state, that is, we are not a bunch of loons - rather, we are hard working people who exercise our lawful rights.

Very nice letter.

Thank you again,

Barrry

[Guest 3pugguy]

It's not so much a "gun nazi" thing with me, more that I can be very principled, and choose not to financially support people I don't agree with. Case in point, during Nashville's "English Only" initiative, Tom Oreck moved his company here and got involved coming out against "English Only". Not only did I not buy more bags for my Oreck vacuum, I stuck it up in the attic and bought a Dyson to replace it. I wouldn't financially support someone I don't agree with. So it's not just guns.

I can't think of any restaurant I'd miss so much I'd trade my principles for a meal there.

And you'll be able to carry in the Smokies in Feb., it's not the same as the restaurant deal, law just hasn't taken effect yet.

+1. Solid point of view.

It's like any other issue - I vote with my wallet when it comes to my views of a business, whether it is this HCP issue or other things. Maybe my few bucks won't matter to the business, but it matters to me.

'preciate your view!

[Guest 3pugguy]

The mass media is generally pretty biased toward the left, really.

Hey 56Fordguy (one of these days I have to see that 56Ford!),

There was a pretty good editorial in the paper today, discussing media today and in the time of Walter Cronkite. One of the things that jumped out at me was this: many, especially younger folks, frequent news outlets (internet or other) that reflect their views.

So I wonder if the trend or perception of media leaning is intentional (imo, it was pretty evident MSNBC was totally in the tank for Obama) and strictly for market share. In other words, as the editorial writer asserted, Cronkite was about the news, not sensationalizing it, and now a days, it's like the pop song "give us dirty laundry" (but not disagreeing with how media leans or spins/half tells things).

[Guest 3pugguy]

Because in Alabama, people carry guns, God, and their crimson tide.

The way it should be.

Two out of three ain't bad

[Guest GlockRule]

From Demo's reply:

"by continuing with not allowing guns in our restaurant, we do not have to manage who has a carry permit and who does not; who is drinking with a gun and who is not. "

----OK, does he make sure none of his drinking patrons are driving after leaving his place? I think not...these restaurant owners are perfectly fine with their patrons driving after having too much to drink, but it can't be left up to permit holders not to drink while carrying?

"Now, we can just not allow guns at all and let the police, who are trained in these matters handle a situation if we see a gun on our premises."

----ha, good luck with relying on the police when you need them if you find yourself in a self defense situation - this guy lives in la-la-land. Well, one more restaurant I'll never patronize again.

These owners just don't get it-the whole point of this is so we can carry to and from restaurants or other places we travel. So if we find that we can't carry into an establishment we'll go where we're welcome and don't have to leave a gun unattended in a car.

[Guest mcgyver210]

What Peter & all restaurants are really doing is increasing their liability because by saying we can't carry on their premises they are assuming responsibility for our safety. This also goes for in the parking lot since we have to be disarmed to enter their establishments.

It isn't the same as before the law because it wasn't something they could control but now they are in control. I wonder when one of them will get taken to court for not providing proper protection for their defenseless customers. Besides if I was a criminal I would consider all posted places a free for all but would think twice about any place not posted since there would be a much better chance of armed resistance.

I know Peter somewhat & I am not surprised by his canned response if he even really wrote it.