Demos Banning Guns - My Correspondence with owner

[HoustonGrey]

Demos plans on posting no guns in their four locations. I wrote the owner today and wanted to share the conversation we had. Please take the time to write any restaurant that makes this choice. Unless we protect our rights they are meaningless...

Mick

Mr. Demos,

I was saddened today by an article that said you would be posting "No Guns" in your restaurant. You happen to be my favorite restaurant. I think your 12oz Sirloin is better than any other steak in town. My wife and daughter love your liquid sugar for the tea and the rolls are incredible. That being said, if you post "No Guns" I will not dine in your restaurant again.

You see I work in downtown Nashville at LifeWay. I do not drink in your restaurant nor intend to ever start. I have a concealed carry license by the state. That means the TBI has done a background check on me and found me to be a law abiding citizen. My families protection is more important than your food.

For some reason the media has twisted the law and called it Guns in Bars. Which isn't the case... It seems that for some reason concealed carry holders have been characterized as bad people. Tell me how many other people that dine with you today have had a background check by the TBI.

Concealed carry holders are just trying to take personal responsibility for their own safety for a variety of reasons. It is a second amendment right and the supreme court has upheld it in the recent Heller Case. I would recommend you do more research before reacting to the news media.

One thing you won't find in the news is concealed carry holders being arrested for shootings. Believe me, if that was the case it would be all over the news. Do your homework, we don't get arrested because we obey the law, are educated, and have good jobs and families.

By the way, your sign will do nothing but upset people like me. Criminals are criminals because they break the law. They don't pay attention to them or little signs with a bar through them.

I hope you will do some research and reconsider. We will miss the food but I can't allow someone to force me to leave my gun in my car in a parking garage in downtown Nashville. Why would I allow you to compromise my rights as a US citizen. You would not want me to do the same for you and your family.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Mick Houston

HIS RESPONSE

Dear Mr. Houston:

Thank you very much for your comments regarding our decision to not allow guns in Demos'. This was a very difficult decision, and frankly, I am very irritated with the State legislators to place the decision in our hands. No one in the hospitality industry wants to say "no" to anyone. It is against our nature as business people in the service industry. However, considering the phone calls we received on both sides of this issue, we were going to have to decide against someone's position causing them to choose to not eat with us.

I find it interesting that the State felt it was important enough to change the law, but that they considered the issue unimportant enough because they gave business owners an option to not follow it. They don't give us options on health regulations, employment laws, building codes, etc... Many of our "business friendly" legislators did not factor this in their decision.

This was equally disturbing to me as I am a big believer in 2nd Amendment rights, but prior to the new law, no one was allowed to carry guns in our restaurant anyway. We felt that since people were eating with us without fear of it being a dangerous place before, then we would continue with the practice.

Also, by continuing with not allowing guns in our restaurant, we do not have to manage who has a carry permit and who does not; who is drinking with a gun and who is not. Now, we can just not allow guns at all and let the police, who are trained in these matters handle a situation if we see a gun on our premises.

Again, I hate the fact that you will not visit our restaurant, and I hope you will change your mind one day. I write you this letter in the hope that you understand why we were forced by the State to choose the way we did. If you continue to feel strongly about this, I encourage you to contact your representatives to have them actually choose a position, and not leave it up to businesses that only want to

serve all of our customers regardless of their beliefs.

Thank you again for your comments.

Sincerely,

Peter Demos

P.S. A list of your legislators may be found at Legislators - TN General Assembly

MY REPLY

Mr. Demos,

I want to thank you for taking the time to reply. I understand your position and I also respect your decision. When you decide to take the signs down let me know because I will be back. I would like to respond to a couple of your comments just to give you something to think about. I am not expecting a reply, I know you are busy just like the rest of us.

This was equally disturbing to me as I am a big believer in 2nd Amendment rights, but prior to the new law, no one was allowed to carry guns in our restaurant anyway. We felt that since people were eating with us without fear of it being a dangerous place before, then we would continue with the practice.

I disagree... I was fearful every time I had to leave your restaurant. You see my rights were actually being infringed. There was just nothing I could do about it until the law was changed. That is not something I could complain to you at the time since it was the law. You could do nothing about it but now you can.

Why would you expect for anyone to be in fear now? Once again, the law only allows law abiding citizens who have passed a course and a background check to carry a gun in your restaurant. It is the law now. I agree with you that I don't think you should be given a choice but I am sure they felt that was necessary to allow you an option since you do serve alcohol.

Also, by continuing with not allowing guns in our restaurant, we do not have to manage who has a carry permit and who does not; who is drinking with a gun and who is not. Now, we can just not allow guns at all and let the police, who are trained in these matters handle a situation if we see a gun on our premises.

Short of posting a policeman at the door to protect all of us and to search everyone I don't see how or what the point would be to managing this issue. The law is clear on drinking with a handgun just as it is on drinking and driving. I don't see you managing the drinking and driving law in your restaurant. No one is getting a breathalyzer on the way out or getting there keys confiscated if they go to the bar.

You don't assume that everyone who drinks in your restaurant is going to break the law so why would you think I am going too?

To your point of those that have called you or sent you letters on the other side of the issue. I would submit to you that you are not infringing on their rights. Nothing will change for them... They will continue to eat with you and not do anything different. On the other hand the law has now given me the right but you are choosing to infringe on my right. Now I have a reason to take issue with your decision. I plan on supporting those restaurants that support the law and my rights. I wish you would give it a try first and double check the statistics before making this decision.

Thanks again for listening and responding. I would love to discuss further over coffee sometime. I think if you get to know some of us you might change your mind.

Thanks again,

Mick Houston

615-807-0397

[Guest jos2f]

Quite a nice, level-headed reply Mick. You made some valid points without losing your cool. At the same time, I feel bad that Mr. Demos had to make a decision (albeit, he made the wrong one in our eyes).

Please keep us posted if he replies again. I was unaware that Demos' was posting, as such, I will not be returning either

[Guest eyebedam]

Very well written & while I don't agree with Demo,s stance atleast it looks like they did really put some thought into tfe reasoning & took the time to really explain his reason behind his posting.

[musicman]

Would you mind sharing Mr. Demo's email address? I would like to offer a similar letter to him to encourage him to rethink his stance. My wife and I have eaten at his restaurants at least 150 times in the last 8 years, but that is now coming to an abrupt end. They are (were) our favorite restaurant.

Thanks!

[HoustonGrey]

Demos | Home Click Contact Us and send him a note. I hope everyone who feels the same way will do so too...

Mick

[musicman]

OK, I'll do that. I didn't know if that actually went to him or not, so that's why I asked for an e-mail addy.

[creeky]

Mick,

Not only is that a well argued letter, it is also respectful in how you made your points as well to Mr. Demos' opinions.

It serves as an excellent example. It's states up front that your not only a patron, but that one that is very familiar with their meals. (Even given praise where praise is warranted.)

respectfully disagreeing with someone with facts is the way to win an argument. Granted... at the conclusion of the exchange you may not have made them change their mind, but you have given them something to seriously think about. More respectful conversations like that may have a great impact in the future with Mr. Demos.

Well written letters like that show us in a good light. The "PR" war will not be won with us acting like militants for our cause. It only feeds into misconceptions of the gun culture and 2nd amendment community.

Bravo! Well done sir!

[Guest jmac]

Mick,

I got the same response letter from felicia@demosrestaurants.com - word for word.

[Guest clsutton21]

Mick,

I got the same response letter from felicia@demosrestaurants.com - word for word.

I hope you aren't surprised.

[musicman]

Dear Demos Family,

I want you to know that your restaurants have been a big part of the history of my life since moving to TN in 2001. My wife and I had our first date in your downtown Nashville location and it has remained our favorite restaurant since then. We have been visiting your restaurants over 20 times a year for the past 8 years. For the last 3 years I have owned an insurance agency and have also had many client lunches at your Murfreesboro location.

Unfortunately, you have now made a decision which will deprive me of my favorite steak and chicken soup. It is with much sadness that I am writing to inform you that my family and I will not be patronizing your locations until your choice to ignore the rights of Tennessee's Handgun Carry Permit holders is reversed. I know you have already received similar letters from friends of mine, and that they have already covered the reasons why we have chosen our stance. However, I don't quite understand your stance.

You state that you are a "big believer in 2nd amendment rights", yet you have chosen to side with those who would continue to make us helpless victims. What is really the resoning behind your decision? Have you gotten dozens to hundreds of letters from those who are afraid of law-abiding citizens who have passed background checks and taken state-required courses to carry a firearm? Have they told you that they will stop visiting your establishment if those horrible men and women who are carrying guns with every respect for the law are there also?

I am very interested to see how this plays out. I know you have just lost roughly $1,200-$1,500 per year in business from my family. I also know of at least 4 other families in my immediate sphere of influence who have made this same decision, and some of these families have been bringing more business to your chain than I have. I will also continue to share this information with the rest of my HCP-holding friends. They do not take kindly to this kind of attack on them either. Do you forsee an influx of business from folks who are afraid of the rest of us law-abiding Americans?

I see you have recently opened a store in Alabama. That's wonderful! Your restaurants do truly offer a dining experience right up there with the best of them, and for an unbelievable value! I also love that my drinking glass never seems to go empty when dining with you. The servers always top them off or bring another full glass when I'm just down to the halfway mark! You may have read a few dozen comment cards from me over the years sharing my delight with this trait of your servers.

Again, I am very sad that you have decided to ban me and my wife from your restaurants, for a ban on guns where they are legal is a ban on me. For your sake, I would love to be proven wrong and see your stores continue to grow their business. However, I feel that you may see the reverse in the coming months.

I sincerely hope you'll reconsider, because I'm really going to miss my Demos'.

Sincerely,

James Kleppinger

Ph#

Email

[Guest jmac]

I hope you aren't surprised.

Not surprised, just wanted to share that Peter Demos is not responding directly to your correspondence. He may have crafted the initial email, and if so good for him, but it is a subsequent copy/paste job.

[Guest m&pc9]

Heres my letter short and to the point.

I have enjoyed eating at your restaurants in the past. But I'm sad to say I will not be coming back due to the post of no legal handguns. I have a handgun carry permit for the purpose of protecting me and my family. Thugs don't care if you post or not, its the law abiding citizens that you are keeping out. Thank You for your time Eddie

[musicman]

I also got the same form letter in return. I think the Demo's corporate office is still there behind the Mboro location. Maybe it's time for a drop by?

[Guest HexHead]

Well, Demo made one good point....

If you continue to feel strongly about this, I encourage you to contact your representatives to have them actually choose a position, and not leave it up to businesses that only want to

serve all of our customers regardless of their beliefs.

Our legislature should have done what many other state's have done and not allow establishments to post. He also made a great point on all the other things the state doesn't allow them to opt out on by citing personal property rights.

We should press the legislature to fix this.

[Mike.357]

He does make one valid point.

Everyone who was going out to eat at restaurants and bars before July 14 was doing so unarmed. And from what I read here Tennesseeans are a restaurant eating out bunch of people. Now that the spineless legislature passed a law that businesses can opt out of we all seem to be in an uproar if they choose to do so.

I dunno, I can kind of see his point in this.

[Guest HexHead]

He does make one valid point.

Everyone who was going out to eat at restaurants and bars before July 14 was doing so unarmed. And from what I read here Tennesseeans are a restaurant eating out bunch of people. Now that the spineless legislature passed a law that businesses can opt out of we all seem to be in an uproar if they choose to do so.

I dunno, I can kind of see his point in this.

Well, then he should just not post. The liberal idiots that are saying they wouldn't eat anywhere someone is carrying a gun would still have problems with places now if they couldn't opt out. So they'd be pissed anyway.

[Guest JHatmaker]

I'll go ahead and write a letter to them as well. When I worked downtown I literally ate there twice a week. Their $5 meal can't be beat. I don't eat there as much as I used to, but will let them know how I feel regardless.

[Mike.357]

Well, then he should just not post.

what he is saying is that nothing has changed at his restaurants. No guns on July 13 and no guns now. Same difference.

[Smith]

What I don't understand is that there are next to zero instances of any shootings at Wendy's or Burger King so what makes places like any different. Also, it is not in the restaurant that I want my gun with me, it is on the way in and on the way out.

[E4 No More]

Why not suggest to those who don't want to lose patrons to post the innocuous "Gun with a slash" sign. That way their mornic customers feel better about themselves, and we can ignore it as being an unlawful method of posting?

[Mike.357]

it is on the way in and on the way out.

I agree, that is the big deal about it all.

[Guest HexHead]

what he is saying is that nothing has changed at his restaurants. No guns on July 13 and no guns now. Same difference.

You're both wrong then. <July 14th the law said we couldn't carry. >July 14th, it's an individual that says we can't. That's all fine and dandy, but since he doesn't mind infringing on my ability to defend myself, he shouldn't mind me telling him to go to hell.

[BrandonTN]

I wonder why their Florence, AL location isn't included...???

Edited July 21, 2009 by BrandonTN

[Guest jos2f]

I wonder why their Florence, AL location isn't included...???

Because in Alabama, people carry guns, God, and their crimson tide.

The way it should be.

[-boatman-]

Well, Demo made one good point....

Our legislature should have done what many other state's have done and not allow establishments to post. He also made a great point on all the other things the state doesn't allow them to opt out on by citing personal property rights.

We should press the legislature to fix this.

Could they even do that with private property? That just does not seem right.

Edited July 21, 2009 by -boatman-