Pentagon orders soldier fired for challenging prez

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

As I understand it, the reservist in question is also an employee of a defense contractor and works on military bases. Since questioning his commander in chief's legitimacy the military has denied him access to military bases in his civilian capacity. So it may have cost him his civilian job, but he won't have to face combat.

The "birther" movement seems to be losing steam among most conservatives. Conservative icon R. Emmett Tyrell, publisher of American Spectator was just on Matthews saying that his research indicates Obama was indeed born in Hawaii. The mainstream Republican party is in a quandry on the issue....not wanting to alienate the remaining moderates in the party, or the "birthers".

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<After all, the Democrats had no problem with going after "Joe the plumber".>>

...still waiting for him to produce a plumber's license.....

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<I am an old man and seen a lot in my day, Yes I participated in operation Apache Snow, 1969 in Vietnam. APACHE SNOW I paid my dues!!!

My gut feel on this is he is not a US citizen. Can I prove it. Of coarse not. This will probably go down with other never to be answered question such as who killed Kennedy.>>

Just curious...what do you think would have happened if, in 1969, you had tried to avoid going to 'Nam because you'd never seen Nixon's birth certificate?

P.S.--Glad I'm not the only old guy on this site. (61 and counting)

THank you for your service.

[Guest canynracer]

plenty dodged the draft for nam cause of their beliefs...like clinton...ooops another dem....

[Guest 3pugguy]

Nope, but I am not criticizing the actions of someone that is/has either.

This man questioned the legality of an order, nothing more, and some folks are ready to demote him, then dishonerably discharge him. Nothing in the OP tells you of his past service, based on what is posted, you have no idea his accomplishments, but he should be considered a whack job because he questioned an order.

Please

Fair enough...thanks for the reply.

[Guest 3pugguy]

plenty dodged the draft for nam cause of their beliefs...like clinton...ooops another dem....

+1, but don't forget George the lesser Bush. Like my Chicken**** brother, he hid out cause Daddy could get him into a Guard unit that wasn't going to deploy (like my Dad, a WWII vet, did for my brother; he had enough old friends to help him out).

Now my brother is right of Atilla, but was to chicken to go if called during Viet Nam.

Regardless of party, I have no use for ChickenHawk Chicken****s...like many in DC.

Ok, I feel better now...

[Guest 3pugguy]

I have seen earlier reports referring to Hawaii's Governor as a Democrat, and quite frankly, the belief that a Democrat Governor was squelching his Birth Certificate prompted my suspicion that something was being hidden. I have gone online and discovered that she is in fact a Republican, and that changes my stance on the subject.

In todays political climate, I am convinced that if "The One" was not a natural born citizen, then the Republican Governor would have made sure that information was released and verified. Either that or she simply doesn't follow the Democrats' modus operandi. After all, the Democrats had no problem with going after "Joe the plumber".

You have hit on the exact point of why I cannot figure out the birth cert is still even an issue, unless someone is a hard core conspiracy theorist.

I would think Republicans, Clintons (as others mentioned) or someone with the depth of pocket and reason would have revealed any discrepancy without delay.

[Guest redbarron06]

As I understand it, the reservist in question is also an employee of a defense contractor and works on military bases. Since questioning his commander in chief's legitimacy the military has denied him access to military bases in his civilian capacity. So it may have cost him his civilian job, but he won't have to face combat.

You have no idea what you are talking about. They will not restrict your ability to get on or off the base because he questioned BHOs birthplace. As a reservist he carries a US Military Geneva Conventions Identification Card, more commonly know as a military ID. As a contractor he most likely had another one that said comtractor. Either will get you though the gates of every published base in the US. In order to keep him off of the base the first thing they would have had to do is boot him from the military then they could suspend his clearence and that would cost his job but that is not how this story reports it as going down. According to the story DOD forced his employeer to fire him.

[Guest canynracer]

+1, but don't forget George the lesser Bush. Like my Chicken**** brother, he hid out cause Daddy could get him into a Guard unit that wasn't going to deploy (like my Dad, a WWII vet, did for my brother; he had enough old friends to help him out).

Now my brother is right of Atilla, but was to chicken to go if called during Viet Nam.

Regardless of party, I have no use for ChickenHawk Chicken****s...like many in DC.

Ok, I feel better now...

LOL...point taken!

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<You have no idea what you are talking about. They will not restrict your ability to get on or off the base because he questioned BHOs birthplace. As a reservist he carries a US Military Geneva Conventions Identification Card, more commonly know as a military ID. As a contractor he most likely had another one that said comtractor. Either will get you though the gates of every published base in the US. In order to keep him off of the base the first thing they would have had to do is boot him from the military then they could suspend his clearence and that would cost his job but that is not how this story reports it as going down. According to the story DOD forced his employeer to fire him.>>

According to who?

According to MSNBC (see below) the DOD denied him access to military bases because he's suing the Federal government. They didn't "order him fired" and do not have the power to do so. I also read that his civilian employer was trying to find him other work but, as yet, was unsuccessful. Like most conspiracies, the "birther" thing falls apart on close examination....Obama's parents would have had to have had the forsight to put his birth announcement in 2 Honolulu newspapers in 1961, believing that it would be a slam dunk for him to become President 47 years later. I saw an interview 2 nights ago with the uber-conservative publisher of American Spectator who said Obama was indeed a US citizen.

from MSNBC--

<<And “Worsts”: The surprise for the birth certificate denier who sued, claiming Obama wasn‘t really president and thus couldn‘t legally send him to Afghanistan. He had volunteered to go to Afghanistan so the military simply said, “OK. You don‘t have to go. End of story.”

Except in civilian life, Major Cook is reportedly an employee of a Pentagon contractor, and reportedly the Pentagon told the contractor, “Sorry. He just sued the army. He‘s not allowed on army properties.” So, Major Cook is reportedly out of work—hoist on his own petard.>>

[Guest redbarron06]

<<You have no idea what you are talking about. They will not restrict your ability to get on or off the base because he questioned BHOs birthplace. As a reservist he carries a US Military Geneva Conventions Identification Card, more commonly know as a military ID. As a contractor he most likely had another one that said comtractor. Either will get you though the gates of every published base in the US. In order to keep him off of the base the first thing they would have had to do is boot him from the military then they could suspend his clearence and that would cost his job but that is not how this story reports it as going down. According to the story DOD forced his employeer to fire him.>>

According to who?

According to MSNBC (see below) the DOD denied him access to military bases because he's suing the Federal government. They didn't "order him fired" and do not have the power to do so. I also read that his civilian employer was trying to find him other work but, as yet, was unsuccessful. Like most conspiracies, the "birther" thing falls apart on close examination....Obama's parents would have had to have had the forsight to put his birth announcement in 2 Honolulu newspapers in 1961, believing that it would be a slam dunk for him to become President 47 years later. I saw an interview 2 nights ago with the uber-conservative publisher of American Spectator who said Obama was indeed a US citizen.

from MSNBC--

<<And “Worstsâ€: The surprise for the birth certificate denier who sued, claiming Obama wasn‘t really president and thus couldn‘t legally send him to Afghanistan. He had volunteered to go to Afghanistan so the military simply said, “OK. You don‘t have to go. End of story.â€

Except in civilian life, Major Cook is reportedly an employee of a Pentagon contractor, and reportedly the Pentagon told the contractor, “Sorry. He just sued the army. He‘s not allowed on army properties.†So, Major Cook is reportedly out of work—hoist on his own petard.>>

If you are beliving MSNBC this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. They have not reported a single accurite fact about the military. As long as you are legaly in possesion of a valid military ID you can get on any published US military base in the world. Now are going to to take MSNBCs word for it or the word of somebody that has one of those IDs.

Maybe the tingle you get up your leg when BHO speaks is causing you to ingor the facts too.

[Guest canynracer]

Ralph...do me a favor, its very hard to follow who you are responding to...

Please use the quote feature

Just find who you want to respond to, go to the bottom of that box, and click the button. You begin typing after the

box.

Thanks!

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<If you are beliving MSNBC this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. They have not reported a single accurite fact about the military.>>

A rather sweeping statement don't you think? I watch and read a variety of

news sources....Drudge, CNN, Fox, Msnbc. I personally put more faith in the information broadcast on MSNBC than that which you pull out of your butt.

<< As long as you are legaly in possesion of a valid military ID you can get on any published US military base in the world. Now are going to to take MSNBCs word for it or the word of somebody that has one of those IDs>>

How do I know you have one? I haven't even seen your birth certificate.

Seriously...getting on a base and being allowed to work for a private contractor on that base are 2 different issues.

<<Maybe the tingle you get up your leg when BHO speaks is causing you to ingor the facts too.>>

YOU brought up the President, not me. I'll trade insults with you if you like...but judging from your spelling skills ("ingor"???) you'd lose. Let's just keep to the issue.

[Guest canynracer]

Ralph...do me a favor, its very hard to follow who you are responding to...Please use the quote feature

Just find who you want to respond to, go to the bottom of that box, and click the button. You begin typing after the "Quote" box.

Thanks!

<<If you are beliving MSNBC this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. They have not reported a single accurite fact about the military.>>

A rather sweeping statement don't you think? I watch and read a variety of

news sources....Drudge, CNN, Fox, Msnbc. I personally put more faith in the information broadcast on MSNBC than that which you pull out of your butt.

<< As long as you are legaly in possesion of a valid military ID you can get on any published US military base in the world. Now are going to to take MSNBCs word for it or the word of somebody that has one of those IDs>>

How do I know you have one? I haven't even seen your birth certificate.

Seriously...getting on a base and being allowed to work for a private contractor on that base are 2 different issues.

<<Maybe the tingle you get up your leg when BHO speaks is causing you to ingor the facts too.>>

YOU brought up the President, not me. I'll trade insults with you if you like...but judging from your spelling skills ("ingor"???) you'd lose. Let's just keep to the issue.

ummm DUDE?? please quote...pretty pretty please????

[Guest 3pugguy]

If you are beliving MSNBC this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. They have not reported a single accurite fact about the military. As long as you are legaly in possesion of a valid military ID you can get on any published US military base in the world. Now are going to to take MSNBCs word for it or the word of somebody that has one of those IDs.

Maybe the tingle you get up your leg when BHO speaks is causing you to ingor the facts too.

I'm with you on this - they may be making it tough on the guy, but he can still come and ago, short of the actions you so clearly laid out for the OP.

I am an old retired fellow and can come and go on any US military (and some associated facilities, such as Seaman's Clubs overseas) with my ID (the Seaman's Clubs were always interesting places).

[Guest redbarron06]

<<If you are beliving MSNBC this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. They have not reported a single accurite fact about the military.>>

A rather sweeping statement don't you think? I watch and read a variety of

news sources....Drudge, CNN, Fox, Msnbc. I personally put more faith in the information broadcast on MSNBC than that which you pull out of your butt.

<< As long as you are legaly in possesion of a valid military ID you can get on any published US military base in the world. Now are going to to take MSNBCs word for it or the word of somebody that has one of those IDs>>

How do I know you have one? I haven't even seen your birth certificate.

Seriously...getting on a base and being allowed to work for a private contractor on that base are 2 different issues.

<<Maybe the tingle you get up your leg when BHO speaks is causing you to ingor the facts too.>>

YOU brought up the President, not me. I'll trade insults with you if you like...but judging from your spelling skills ("ingor"???) you'd lose. Let's just keep to the issue.

Would you take my word for it if I put a scan of the current contrat I am under, signed and exicuted in Kandihar AFG in 2006? And yes on several times I have given my BC to DOD. The most recient when I got my security clearance which BHO is not even qualified to have due to his past drug abuse that he has admitted to.

The issue is that you are trying to pull military proceedures out of your rear to see who believes you. As long as you have a military ID you can got on a base. One of the first things they give you when you come in is an ID and it is the last thing they take when you leave. Actually you can drop it in any US Mail box and it will be returned. Contractors get ID cards too dual status folks even get 2 of them. One that sais US (branch) the other may say DOD Civilain od DOD Contractor.

[Daniel]

I've got my two.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

Would you take my word for it if I put a scan of the current contrat I am under, signed and exicuted in Kandihar AFG in 2006? And yes on several times I have given my BC to DOD. The most recient when I got my security clearance which BHO is not even qualified to have due to his past drug abuse that he has admitted to.

The issue is that you are trying to pull military proceedures out of your rear to see who believes you. As long as you have a military ID you can got on a base. One of the first things they give you when you come in is an ID and it is the last thing they take when you leave. Actually you can drop it in any US Mail box and it will be returned. Contractors get ID cards too dual status folks even get 2 of them. One that sais US (branch) the other may say DOD Civilain od DOD Contractor.

OK...he can get on base as a reservist, and as a contractor assuming he's still employed by them. The question is, can he be prevented from doing work as a civilian contractor while on base in his capacity as a reservist? Politics aside, it's an interesting legal question.

I think we need more information. I suspect he will lose his civilian job.

....a small price to pay considering what would have happened to a GI pulling a stunt like that in WW2--Leavenworth or a firing squad maybe...looney bin probably.

[Guest redbarron06]

OK...he can get on base as a reservist, and as a contractor assuming he's still employed by them. The question is, can he be prevented from doing work as a civilian contractor while on base in his capacity as a reservist? Politics aside, it's an interesting legal question.

I think we need more information. I suspect he will lose his civilian job.

....a small price to pay considering what would have happened to a GI pulling a stunt like that in WW2--Leavenworth or a firing squad maybe...looney bin probably.

Depends on the job itself. For example on many based the AVN uses contractors to working on aircraft. In this case the ID can be get you on the base and you dont use it for anything else the rest of the day. In other cases for example a contractor that uses DOD computer systems all day (in payroll office for example) has to have the ID card to log into the computer. The chip on the card contains all of the network log in information. That information can be changed for different cards though it normally is not. The gate guards to not check what status you are in when you come on they only check that you are legal to come on. In many cases a person with an ID can come on base and be in no status at all. I go shopping on Ft Cambell often. Now can I log into the computer systems on Ft Campbell sertain ones that are restricted no. I can log into most of the ones with the TN guard though. The guard systems has my user name and password in the network where Ft Campbell dont. On the flip side I have guys in my unit that are guard on the weekend and are contractors at Fort Campbell. I dont know how theres is set up but it is possible that his military ID card will not log into the Ft Campbell system but it depends on how the I.T. guys up there set it up.

The point of the entire arugment is that DOD should not be able to come in and say "fire this guy" from his civy job. Now if DOD revoked his security clearence and having that was a requirment for the job now it is a different argument, however a field grade officer (major and above) are required to have a clearance so it would also mean that they would have to seperate him for the service. The story does not say but I am not going to assume that this is the case. In my opinion this is no different than BHO firing the CEO of GM or closing the dealerships that wre making money because they donated to the GOP during the election cycle. I am also not trying to say that BHO himself was the one that gave the order but I would be willing to bet that one of his staff or supporters did.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

Depends on the job itself. For example on many based the AVN uses contractors to working on aircraft. In this case the ID can be get you on the base and you dont use it for anything else the rest of the day. In other cases for example a contractor that uses DOD computer systems all day (in payroll office for example) has to have the ID card to log into the computer. The chip on the card contains all of the network log in information. That information can be changed for different cards though it normally is not. The gate guards to not check what status you are in when you come on they only check that you are legal to come on. In many cases a person with an ID can come on base and be in no status at all. I go shopping on Ft Cambell often. Now can I log into the computer systems on Ft Campbell sertain ones that are restricted no. I can log into most of the ones with the TN guard though. The guard systems has my user name and password in the network where Ft Campbell dont. On the flip side I have guys in my unit that are guard on the weekend and are contractors at Fort Campbell. I dont know how theres is set up but it is possible that his military ID card will not log into the Ft Campbell system but it depends on how the I.T. guys up there set it up.

The point of the entire arugment is that DOD should not be able to come in and say "fire this guy" from his civy job. Now if DOD revoked his security clearence and having that was a requirment for the job now it is a different argument, however a field grade officer (major and above) are required to have a clearance so it would also mean that they would have to seperate him for the service. The story does not say but I am not going to assume that this is the case. In my opinion this is no different than BHO firing the CEO of GM or closing the dealerships that wre making money because they donated to the GOP during the election cycle. I am also not trying to say that BHO himself was the one that gave the order but I would be willing to bet that one of his staff or supporters did.

Red,

Thanks for the info, and thanks for your service. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out.

As for closing GM dealerships that donated to the GOP....you might be hard pressed to find a GM dealer that didn't donate to the GOP....I'm semi-serious on that point.

[Guest redbarron06]

Stats that were collected on the dealerships that have been forced closed were that dealerships (GM and Chrysler some of which were actually making money) that gave more money to GOP canidates than democrat canidates were forced to be closed while failing dealerships that made large contributions to democratic canidates were allowed to remain open.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

Stats that were collected on the dealerships that have been forced closed were that dealerships (GM and Chrysler some of which were actually making money) that gave more money to GOP canidates than democrat canidates were forced to be closed while failing dealerships that made large contributions to democratic canidates were allowed to remain open.

Source?? (Talk radio doesn't count).

[Guest redbarron06]

Source?? (Talk radio doesn't count).

Not only has it been on national talk but was also on Fox News. I dont have a link to any of the stories right now.

[Guest dlstewart01]

Chrysler's 'hit list' targets GOP donors

Texas Rep. Accuses Dems of Closing GOP-Donating Chrysler Dealerships (Video)

Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings | Washington Examiner

[Guest 3pugguy]

Stats that were collected on the dealerships that have been forced closed were that dealerships (GM and Chrysler some of which were actually making money) that gave more money to GOP canidates than democrat canidates were forced to be closed while failing dealerships that made large contributions to democratic canidates were allowed to remain open.

That sucks, but politics is dirty and getting dirtier, it seems.

And in case I hadn't mentioned it, thanks for your prior and current work on all our behalf; everything is a part of the whole of keeping us safe in a world more and more inhabited by those who would take or kill for no reason other than to do the act. I know it's often a thankless job and your efforts unknown (but I do understand that it's for good reason we have security clearances for our US gov't workers, civilian and military).

I guess we will see how all of this plays out for the Major.