Caliber Blabber

[Guest icehead]

I been on some other forums and seen alot of guys saying they would never carry anything other than a .40 or .45. During my time off from work for back surgery (2 1/2 months) I've seen alot crime shows (First 48,American Justice, Crime 360) people get killed with 380's .38's, crappy .25's. My point is often people are killed by others with no training with lucky shots. I feel pretty safe with my S&W 638.

[Guest TUNER260]

Shot placment is all that counts.

[BigPoppa]

Shot placement is all that counts.

+ 1

[56FordGuy]

I been on some other forums and seen alot of guys saying they would never carry anything other than a .40 or .45.

Real men only carry .45s, have 5 spare mags on their body at all times, and they have .308 rifles in their surplus M1 Abrams tanks that they drive to work. They wear level III body armor at all times and to tactical rolls into their cubicles, to keep their skills up in case their office is ever invaded.

I, on the other hand, carry either a 9mm or a .38. My personal belief is that with most modern day defense ammo, a lot of caliber debates have been neutralized, or the gap between calibers closed to a negligible size.

[Guest Jcochran88]

If you can't shoot well with a more powerful caliber what good is it? No spray and pray for me thanks.

[Guest icehead]

Real men only carry .45s, have 5 spare mags on their body at all times, and they have .308 rifles in their surplus M1 Abrams tanks that they drive to work. They wear level III body armor at all times and to tactical rolls into their cubicles, to keep their skills up in case their office is ever invaded.

I, on the other hand, carry either a 9mm or a .38. My personal belief is that with most modern day defense ammo, a lot of caliber debates have been neutralized, or the gap between calibers closed to a negligible size.

I'm a 9mm or .38 guy myself. Got to love the snubbies. Maybe one day I'll get my dream Colt .38 Detective.

[deerslayer]

people get killed with 380's .38's, crappy .25's

Who cares?

Were they stopped before they killed someone else? Whether or not they died afterward is meaningless. My dad witnessed a man getting shot five time point blank in the chest with a .25. After the fifth shot, the guy with all the holes in his chest grabbed an old lady and used her to shield himself from the shooter. He may have died later by a crappy .25, but that didn't matter when he was grabbing the old lady.

[Metalhead]

They wear level III body armor at all times and to tactical rolls into their cubicles, to keep their skills up in case their office is ever invaded.

While screaming CONTACT!!

[nightrunner]

a .22 will kill you but a .45 or other large caliber at least stops you momentarily even if it doesnt kill you

[Guest 3pugguy]

+ 1

+2...

[Guest 3pugguy]

Real men only carry .45s, have 5 spare mags on their body at all times, and they have .308 rifles in their surplus M1 Abrams tanks that they drive to work. They wear level III body armor at all times and to tactical rolls into their cubicles, to keep their skills up in case their office is ever invaded.

I, on the other hand, carry either a 9mm or a .38. My personal belief is that with most modern day defense ammo, a lot of caliber debates have been neutralized, or the gap between calibers closed to a negligible size.

That is just plain funny...I stuck with my trust 9MM but reckon it all comes down to preference.

Read an article recently in one of the gun mags that made the point another poster made earlier - shot placement with a 9mm, .38, .40 - all will get the job done.

Reckon I better get on down to the range now and practice this weekend.

[Garufa]

I feel pretty safe with my S&W 638.

You are well protected. Don't fret.

[Guest 3pugguy]

I'm a 9mm or .38 guy myself. Got to love the snubbies. Maybe one day I'll get my dream Colt .38 Detective.

I keep toying with the idea of getting a wheel gun and a .38 is on the list. Just think it would be a fun range and home gun.

[willis68]

a .22 will kill you but a .45 or other large caliber at least stops you momentarily even if it doesnt kill you

+5000

[Guest GT_Rat]

I tend to lean toward .40 or .45. I figure a bigger hole can't hurt (me anyway) since I'm not an "operator" so my shot placement may not always be optimal.

[timcalhoun]

Bullet design that made the "modern day defense ammo" in 9mm relevant was also done to the 40 and 45. The gap between them did not shrink.

Bottom line for me is that a 45 doesn't need to expand to be effective. But if it does.......awesome.

[Smith]

Bullet design that made the "modern day defense ammo" in 9mm relevant was also done to the 40 and 45. The gap between them did not shrink.

Bottom line for me is that a 45 doesn't need to expand to be effective. But if it does.......awesome.

According to the stats the so called "one stop shot" percentages are 92% to 89% between .45 and 9. The 9 penetrates where the .45 doesn't. Barriers are also a big negative of .45's. Now if your receiving end is naked and standing directly in front of you then maybe you are correct, but add any clothing or anything else between the bullet and the receiving end and the 9 starts taking a lead in the effective category.

[Guest grimel]

Bullet design that made the "modern day defense ammo" in 9mm relevant was also done to the 40 and 45. The gap between them did not shrink.

Bottom line for me is that a 45 doesn't need to expand to be effective. But if it does.......awesome.

Before opening one's mouth/keyboard one might want to consider actual test data. All the premium ammo 12-15", 60-70 cal.

If you want better performance, shoot more bullets into the target.

[Guest grimel]

I tend to lean toward .40 or .45. I figure a bigger hole can't hurt (me anyway) since I'm not an "operator" so my shot placement may not always be optimal.

More holes in the target will give a better chance of hitting something important.

[strickj]

grimel,dude,you have to change your sig line

Ammo is not cheap anymore!

[daddyo]

If I ever find myself in the horrible position of drawing my weapon in self-defense, my sole objective is to stop the threat, nothing else. My intent is not to kill. Modern service caliber ammunition, in the proper weights, is capable of doing that.

The first handgun I bought was a .380, and I sold it about 3 months ago because I became convinced that it is inadequate as a SD round. It can kill, but it is not a reliable man-stopper. Your attacker can still do you grievous bodily injury before he bleeds out. No caliber is 100% effective, but service calibers have been proven to be more effective at stopping the threat than non-service calibers.

[Bassoneer]

I carry .38, .357 Magnum and .40 S&W. The bigger calibers are more destructive, but 90% of the time I carry a S&W 638 .38 special +P with a 1 7/8" barrel. It is not fun to shoot because it kicks like a mule, but I've done enough testing of the defensive ammo in water jugs to know it is extremely powerful and I would not want to get shot with it. If I were going to carry a .22, I would want to be a much better shot than I am right now. I would love to have a .45 1911, but again, you give us a lot in weight and size when you start carrying something like that. Probably that 638 is about the most perfect carry gun I've got. B

[timcalhoun]

According to the stats the so called "one stop shot" percentages are 92% to 89% between .45 and 9. The 9 penetrates where the .45 doesn't. Barriers are also a big negative of .45's. Now if your receiving end is naked and standing directly in front of you then maybe you are correct, but add any clothing or anything else between the bullet and the receiving end and the 9 starts taking a lead in the effective category.

First and foremost there is no need to be rude with rolleyes and saying things like "before opening ones mouth or keyboard". We are all on the same team and these are just opinions. I could not care less what you carry. As long as you carry. Now back to the topic........

Please share your source data. I thought almost all law enforcement/FBI has pretty much abandoned the 9 and I was told it was because of poor performance. No?

I know hunting deer with a pistol is not the same but I can tell you that performance with the larger calibers stopped the deer I have taken way better (I have been taking deer with pistols since 91). I have taken many deer with 357mag, 45acp and 44 mag although I only hunted one year with the 44. I have always used the same bullets I used for carry, gold dots, xtps, golden saber etc and loaded them to the published fps. But the biggest thing I can tell you is that the hype about the "modern bullet" is just that.... hype. I have retrieved 11 rounds that did not exit from the animals and some rounds did just like they were designed and some did not. Not consistent at all.

So, I am very leery of all the gun rag experts shooting into gelatin because like every magazine they are selling add spots to keep the mag going. And going through bone and tissue is very different. I believe they all perform well in gelatin since it is a consistent medium.

[poak]

After the fifth shot, the guy with all the holes in his chest grabbed an old lady and used her to shield himself from the shooter.

I learned that tactic @ Tactical Response! That's straight warrior, son!

[deerslayer]

First and foremost there is no need to be rude with rolleyes and saying things like "before opening ones mouth or keyboard". We are all on the same team and these are just opinions. I could not care less what you carry. As long as you carry. Now back to the topic........

Please share your source data. I thought almost all law enforcement/FBI has pretty much abandoned the 9 and I was told it was because of poor performance. No?

I know hunting deer with a pistol is not the same but I can tell you that performance with the larger calibers stopped the deer I have taken way better (I have been taking deer with pistols since 91). I have taken many deer with 357mag, 45acp and 44 mag although I only hunted one year with the 44. I have always used the same bullets I used for carry, gold dots, xtps, golden saber etc and loaded them to the published fps. But the biggest thing I can tell you is that the hype about the "modern bullet" is just that.... hype. I have retrieved 11 rounds that did not exit from the animals and some rounds did just like they were designed and some did not. Not consistent at all.

So, I am very leery of all the gun rag experts shooting into gelatin because like every magazine they are selling add spots to keep the mag going. And going through bone and tissue is very different. I believe they all perform well in gelatin since it is a consistent medium.

Well said.

I too am leary of all the revolutionary high tech gains supposedly made in the last few years. However, if ones buys all the hype, all the gains apply to all calibers and thus the closing of the "gap" between a .380 and a .40 is nullified. Some calibers are just a joke when used to stop men, premium ammo or not.

Service caliber pistols are BB guns when dealing with two-legged predators. Rifles and shotguns are too hard to conceal, though.