Assistance Please

[Guest Phantom6]

Assistance please!

We have saved the county but the city is going sideways on us. We are facing a council meeting on Monday the 20th of July and are dealing with a strong anti-gun group here in Oak Ridge that has mobilized a ton of people and launched an email campaign to get the city council to “opt out†of the state law which allows carry permit holders to carry in ANY of our city parks. They have done this by framing the question as follows:â€Are you for guns in the parks or are you for the safety of our children?†Never mind that there are already guns in the parks and they belong to criminals and the state law is only pertaining to Carry Permit holders not just anybody.

Anyway, below are the email addresses of all but one of the city council members. Please send them a brief and respectful note saying something like “Please don’t keep me from enjoying the city’s parks by denying my Constitutional right to self defense. Vote NO on opting out of the State law regarding carry in public parks.â€

They will have no clue as to whether the emails came from Nashville, Memphis or right here in town on Nebraska or Montana Avenues.

We need 4 of 7 council members to vote with us. Garland and Miller at least for now are in our camp. Hayes and Mosby are flip-flopping on a daily basis. Charlie Hensley doesn’t believe in guns at all nor does Ellen Smith but we need to flood their email addresses just to tick ‘em off. It’s going to depend upon how many contacts they all receive. Steve Mead, I and another gentleman are going to formally address the council and I’m sure that there will be some other pro-gun speakers as well. What we need right now however is volume of contacts hitting their email accounts.

If you want to see who it is you are mailing the council’s site is located here.

http://www.cortn.org/government/CityCouncil

Ann Garcia Garland agg@bellsouth.net

Tom Hays thayes@cortn.org

Charlie Hensley chensley@cortn.org

Jane Miller jmiller@cortn.org

David Mosby dmosby@cortn.org

Ellen Smith esmith@cortn.org

I left out Mayor Beehan because he’s so anti gun and full of his own self importance that he is the only city mayor in the entire state that is still listed on Bloomberg’s “Mayors Against Illegal Guns group.â€

If as many people as possible would send a brief email it may turn things around for us.

Thanks in advance for your aassistance.

[BrasilNuts]

Email sent to all of them.

[analog_kidd]

Thanks for posting their addresses. Email has been sent to each.

I will be out of town Monday, but is anyone planning on attending the meeting?

[BrasilNuts]

I am going to go I just need to know when and where.

[analog_kidd]

Got this email from Ellen Smith in response to my email:

Thank you for writing to City Council to share your views on guns in city parks. I have received many thoughtful (and often heartfelt) comments on both sides of this issue, and I have read them all (and viewed the videos) with interest. Due to the large number of people who have written on this subject, I regret that I cannot respond to each of you personally.

The matter of guns in parks is on the agenda for the next City Council meeting next Monday, July 20.

Guns are currently not permitted in our city parks. A new state law that allows people with handgun carry permit holders to carry their guns in public parks will take effect September 1 and will apply in Oak Ridge city parks unless the City Council decides by resolution to "opt out."

The "opt-out" resolution that City Council will consider next Monday would maintain the existing ban on guns in our parks, with exceptions for law enforcement officers, hunters in an authorized hunt (we do have them in some city areas), World War II re-enactors at Secret City, and similar exceptions. It would apply to all parks, natural areas, greenways, and similar properties owned or operated by the city. (Guns will continue to be banned on school property regardless of what we do.)

I intend to support the opt-out resolution to continue the ban on guns in our city parks. As I see it, this restriction is not related to a citizen's right to bear arms, but rather is a reasonable restriction to ensure public safety and allow citizens to feel secure when they use the city's public playgrounds, parks, greenways, and other areas.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts on this issue.

-- Ellen Smith, Oak Ridge City Council / http://www.ellensmith.org/blog

and I sent this one back...

Ellen,

I am disappointed to hear your feelings on this matter. I really hope that we don't have an incident where a citizen is robbed, raped, killed, etc. in a park and they could have protected themselves. Not only will the city be inviting a lawsuit, but I would not want that on my conscience had I voted to disarm an innocent civilian.

I also want to bring to your attention that the opt-out ban applies to police officers that are not on duty. In other words, an officer bringing his children to the park, or eating lunch with their spouse (even in uniform) would have to disarm. This would make them a prime target for someone that may have a grudge.

I really hope you make a well-informed decision, and not just use a gut feeling, before deciding on how this vote should go.

Sincerely,

Sadly, I'm not sure it will do much good to change her mind.

[analog_kidd]

Here is some info on the meeting...

OAK RIDGE, TN

Website: City Council

Opt-out Resolution is listed (13-a) on the agenda. Click here for the agenda.

City Council will meet Monday, July 20 at 7:00pm:

Oak Ridge Municipal Building

200 S. Tulane Ave.

Oak ridge, TN 37830

[Guest bkelm18]

Wait, Anderson County is going to allow carry? I heard they were meeting at the end of the month, but other than that I hadn't heard anything else.

[bubbiesdad]

Got this email from Ellen Smith in response to my email:

and I sent this one back...

Sadly, I'm not sure it will do much good to change her mind.

I got the same letter from Smith.

[Guest SUNTZU]

All my emails to cortn.org were kicked back to me.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

they really dont care. nor do the bristol council.... they believe they are protecting innocent from neglectful criminals this way... there should be a way to sue the council for making uninformed decisions.... considering the study done by the dept of interior confirming the lessend crime rate surrounding right to carry, among the facts that we as legal holders are among the safest and most responsible, law abiding, and are the least likely to cause harm to anybody.....

[Guest SUNTZU]

I was thinking about this on the way back from the new place. On the way there and on the way back I drove over one of the Knoxville Greenways four times. There are roads on either side of part of the Greenway, and two of the streets that the Greenway crosses have sidewalks. I'm okay to drive over the Greenway with my permit, and I'm okay to walk on the sidewalks or shoulder of the road around the Greenway, and most of the time I can see the Greenway, but I won't be able to walk on the secluded Greenway itself...

[Oh Shoot]

... but I won't be able to walk on the secluded Greenway itself...

We'll have to see whether they post them or not.

The Greenways are a peculiar mixmash. The part down Sutherland past Forest Blvd. was just expanded a little on top of the previously existing sidewalk, and there is NO other way to walk down that street. Not only that, but it goes through the front yard of Bearden Elementary near its terminus.

The third creek section is not even all owned by the city of Knoxville, and I think some others are too. Some sections are still private land that have been free leased to the city. Some sections are jointly owned. Some are city owned. I think the section from Fulton Bottoms Field to Neyland is all UT loaned/leased/whatever, but not considered UT property, although the field itself is.

It's a mess for sure.

Oddly, I've heard nada about Knoxville's intents as to all the various parks. While most cities of any size have already acted or have announced plans to, not a peep that I know of yet from our City Council, or County Council, or whoever the hell would make the decision.

- OS

Edited July 19, 2009 by OhShoot

[Guest Phantom6]

All my emails to cortn.org were kicked back to me.

They knew who they were coming from.

[Guest Linoge]

I bulk emailed the whole list, and received the same email from Ellen Smith, and this email form Jane Miller:

Thank you for taking time to write such a personal, well-written, factual e-mail. Please read my editorial in the Oak Ridge Observer today. I hope you can also attend the OR City Council meeting Monday night.

Best Regards,

Jane Miller

If you have a hard time turning up a copy of the Oak Ridge Observer, her editorial is below:

[...] On the surface, if you ask people if they want guns in parks, of course the answer is NO!! However, that is really not the question as we already have people illegally carrying guns in our parks and the existing laws are not (and cannot easily be) enforced. Should the City Council opt out and vote to leave law-abiding citizens defenseless, and only allow criminals to carry guns in our parks? With no compelling evidence that the state issued permit holders (about 5 percent of the population) represent a danger to park patrons, it would seem the Second Amendment, the Tennessee Constitution, and a host of laws and court rules should be allowed to govern the issue.

If the opt out option is approved, many costly signs will be posted that apply to permit holders only - the permitted gun holders who have had background checks, state approved training, and been finger-printed. Remember, these are law-abiding citizens (the good guys) who have permits for their guns!

Some who would ban legally carried guns worry about the results of accidental firearm discharge, but there is no evidence that responsible gun owners represent a significant risk. Another argument is that some parents at youth sporting events are known to lose control of their better judgement. Some worry about what would happen if one of those parents had possession of a gun.

Should we allow fear to overrule common sense and deprive law abiding citizens of their constitutional rights? Should we govern by fear and emotion or protect our constitutional rights?

I have never owned a gun myself. In fact, we have the old Nintendo "Duck Hunt" game at home, and I would not even let my husband show my nieces how to shoot ducks on the TV screen for fear that they might pick up an unsecured gun somewhere, someday thinking it was a toy and hurt themselves or another child. However, if I was hiking on the [PARK NAME] or some other remote area, I might want to consider purchasing a gun. respect, safety, proper training, and obeying the law in regard to weapons is something I support 100 percent.

On Monday night, July 20, the [TOWN] City Council will vote yes or no on an "opt out" resolution which will not allow citizens with handgun carry permits to carry guns in local public parks. [...]

As you can probably tell, I am somewhat conflicted over this issue and would like your thoughts. Thank you to those who have already weighed in.

Citizens/Voters - we need your input. Please let us know your opinion by sending an email to [ADDRESS] or by attending the Council Meeting at [TIME AND LOCATION].

It is truncated and edited simply because ORO does not have the editorial online, and I only typed up what I wanted for my weblog post. I have since emailed Jane back to offer to meet her at a range one day (assuming she has never fired a firearm, in addition to never owning one), but I have not heard back from her yet.

Those are the only two council members I have heard from, though.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Linoge

[Guest 270win]

Are all these cities and counties actually spending the big money it takes to put up the many signs to be in compliance with the law to keep guns out? I wouldn't question or make that a point of discussion, but just curious. If they are too dumb to put up the exact signs, then they are just too dumb and i'd walk past the signs with my handgun concealed smiling. It is funny that these cities and counties are spending time and money hassling law abiding citizens than figuring out ways to hassle criminals such as setting up chain gangs to clean up parks, ditches, and government buildings. Why pay someone to mow city/county grass when you've got jail intmates to do it for free?

[Guest SUNTZU]

We'll have to see whether they post them or not.

The Greenways are a peculiar mixmash. The part down Sutherland past Forest Blvd. was just expanded a little on top of the previously existing sidewalk, and there is NO other way to walk down that street. Not only that, but it goes through the front yard of Bearden Elementary near its terminus.

The third creek section is not even all owned by the city of Knoxville, and I think some others are too. Some sections are still private land that have been free leased to the city. Some sections are jointly owned. Some are city owned. I think the section from Fulton Bottoms Field to Neyland is all UT loaned/leased/whatever, but not considered UT property, although the field itself is.

It's a mess for sure.

Oddly, I've heard nada about Knoxville's intents as to all the various parks. While most cities of any size have already acted or have announced plans to, not a peep that I know of yet from our City Council, or County Council, or whoever the hell would make the decision.

- OS

I doubt that we will be allowed to carry in the parks. Bill Haslam doesn't like guns. Knoxville is a corrupt political cesspool. Depends on the thickness of your envelope as to who gets what done, IMO.

[Guest SUNTZU]

They knew who they were coming from.

Where's Luca?

[Guest bkelm18]

Are all these cities and counties actually spending the big money it takes to put up the many signs to be in compliance with the law to keep guns out? I wouldn't question or make that a point of discussion, but just curious. If they are too dumb to put up the exact signs, then they are just too dumb and i'd walk past the signs with my handgun concealed smiling. It is funny that these cities and counties are spending time and money hassling law abiding citizens than figuring out ways to hassle criminals such as setting up chain gangs to clean up parks, ditches, and government buildings. Why pay someone to mow city/county grass when you've got jail intmates to do it for free?

If I'm not mistaken, since carry in parks was banned before, 39-17-1311© already required them to have signs up stating no carry. When they vote to continue the ban in their parks, they don't have to do anything. The signs are already there. You can carry past them all you want. But it's a Class A Misdemeanor.

Edited July 19, 2009 by bkelm18

[Oh Shoot]

If I'm not mistaken, since carry in parks was banned before, 39-17-1311© already required them to have signs up stating no carry. When they vote to continue the ban in their parks, they don't have to do anything. The signs are already there. You can carry past them all you want. But it's a Class A Misdemeanor. Which IIRC, they revoke your permit.

Before, they didn't have to have the signs. Could "opt out" of that by resolution. Look at the rest of the statute.

There are no "no guns" signs anywhere in Knoxville park/greenway system that I can recall. Certainly not the sections I frequent.

- OS

[analog_kidd]

I wonder about the Oak Ridge Greenways too. Most of them have obvious points of entry to post at, but the one at the marina looks like a sidewalk along the road. there is like two miles of parking, and you just get out of your car and start walking. Do they intend on posting signs every 20 feet?

This is also the site of a couple of rapes and numerous car break-ins. If ever there was a place you need to carry, this is it.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Just open carry and walk on the shoulder of the road.

[Guest bkelm18]

I wonder about the Oak Ridge Greenways too. Most of them have obvious points of entry to post at, but the one at the marina looks like a sidewalk along the road. there is like two miles of parking, and you just get out of your car and start walking. Do they intend on posting signs every 20 feet?

This is also the site of a couple of rapes and numerous car break-ins. If ever there was a place you need to carry, this is it.

The only Greenway/Park I ever frequent is Haw Ridge. I hike back there a lot and would really enjoy being armed.

[Guest 270win]

The way I understood it...there had to be a majority resolution vote AND then posting of 39-17-1311 signs exactly worded quoting the statute that even have to be a certain size according to the new law. The old law did not force the cities and counties to post signs to make carry illega, but according to my reading (i'm not a lawyer), the new law forces the counties/cities to put up signs. There are many county/city parks that do not have these signs. I'm sure not calling anyone and asking them to put up those signs stating that guns in parks is some sort of misdemeanor!

[Guest SUNTZU]

I received this email from Jame Miller.

Big Pimpin (Okay, she really didn't call me that):

Thank you for your e-mail. You are right on in your comments. Please review my editorial that was published Thursday in the Oak Ridge Observer.

Thank you again for caring about our community.

This is what I attempted to send to all of them. Jane is the only one who received it.

"Dear Jane,

I'm writing you concerning the upcoming council meeting where opting out of allowing guns in the parks is to be discussed. I'm worried about the children. When I am walking the greenways, I am worried about someone jumping out at me from the bushes and putting a gun to my face. The very thought of it makes me wonder what I should do. I suppose that I could always carry a heavy tree branch and hopefully smack the criminals gun away from my face. As of 2006, there were only a little over two police officers for every thousand residents. It seems everyday I hear about more and more crime, especially as people are low on spendable income. Who is going to protect me while I'm on the greenway, or hiking around the lake on the bike trails? I think that allowing a person who has passed a background check by the state of TN and an FBI background check as well to obtain a handgun carry permit should be allowed to defend him or herself from harm, especially from someone who doesn't care what laws are passed. Did you know its illegal to rob a bank? Wasn't there a bank robbery just a week or so ago? Please vote NO to opting out of the State Law allowing handgun permit holders to carry their handguns in the parks. Thank you for your time.

Best,

JubJub (names have been changed to protect the innocent)

[highshot]

Jane Miller wrote a very good editorial in the Observer.