ATF KILLS TN FIREARMS FREEDOM ACT!

[DavidD]

No offense guys, but this is going to end badly for us (as far as this particular issue) in the long run/big picture of Federal vs. State - 10th Amendment. It will be spun by the left and ruled against by SCOTUS as another "Sensible Control".

[Smith]

Not a fatalist, but the proverbial line has been drawn in the sand. Right now I say it's a toss up.

[Guest benchpresspower]

Ahhh.... An ATF Czar. More of BO's "shadow" government.... Haven't seen that in the Constitution either. Wish I had the 'nads to carry this one to the SCOTUS!

Well not so much as the "nads" but would it be even worth your while? I'm sure we've all seen the crap recently about Sotomayor and it would be just our luck we would get her in this case.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well not so much as the "nads" but would it be even worth your while? I'm sure we've all seen the crap recently about Sotomayor and it would be just our luck we would get her in this case.

Well, if she is confirmed, she will be replacing a liberal Justice, so the conservative lean of the SCOTUS would remain the same, however I don't think it leans so far to the right that it would rule in our favor.

[Smith]

Well, if she is confirmed, she will be replacing a liberal Justice, so the conservative lean of the SCOTUS would remain the same, however I don't think it leans so far to the right that it would rule in our favor.

Sad state of affairs when upholding basic Constitutional principles are considered leaning to the right. But I think you may be right.

[DaveTN]

Guys anyone that plays with ATF on this issue is going to get burned. They will find a way to prove that you broke the law, when you mess with ATF about NFA stuff you will lose. I hate to be that way but look at the history with ATF. They dont play fair, period. As much as I want to be able to build NFA items without all the hassle and money its just not going to happen. I will be glad to eat crow on this one if Im wrong.

-Jason G

I agree. Anyone that decides to be a test case on this I predict will end up doing prison time.

And how are you going to get weapons or supplies with no FFL’s and no companies that hold manufacturing licenses involved? Their licenses are gone the minute they violate a law. Homemade stuff? The ATF will pick you off like flies and the state will stand back and watch. Because that’s all they can do.

<O:p</O:p

The 10<SUP>th</SUP> amendment issues will not include firearms; the public won’t support it.

[Guest PapaB]

No offense guys, but this is going to end badly for us (as far as this particular issue) in the long run/big picture of Federal vs. State - 10th Amendment. It will be spun by the left and ruled against by SCOTUS as another "Sensible Control".

I don't agree that it will end badly for us. Worst case is we'll lose and be back to where we are now. I've heard some bright legal minds say, with the current make-up of SCOTUS, we'll win while others say we'll lose.

The best part of this is that several states are working on similar laws, or have already passed them. I know of MT, MN, SC, FL, TX and TN. Plus, AZ just passed the Health Care Freedom Act which is the same legislation covering a different issue.

I'm looking forward to the fight.

[DavidD]

I don't agree that it will end badly for us. Worst case is we'll lose and be back to where we are now. I've heard some bright legal minds say, with the current make-up of SCOTUS, we'll win while others say we'll lose.

The best part of this is that several states are working on similar laws, or have already passed them. I know of MT, MN, SC, FL, TX and TN. Plus, AZ just passed the Health Care Freedom Act which is the same legislation covering a different issue.

I'm looking forward to the fight.

I truly hope you are right, I just don't see it happening given the makeup of SCOTUS. I believe our only bright spot is this issue is much larger than "firearms".

[GLOCKMEISTER]

yea, guns isnt the way to make a case for the 10th ammendment!

[Guest canynracer]

Amen, brother. Guns were picked to be the "issue" knowing Holder wouldn't be able to restrain himself and ignore it. Like waving a red cape at a bull. If we actually suppressors or SBRs out of this it would just be icing on the cake, but that's a really small part of it.

The other states that have been passing those "10th Amendment Resolutions" are nothing but lip service and would never generate any action on this principle. Alaska's AG has gone so far as to say that if the BATF goes after an Alaska resident over this, the state would fund their defense.

well then, that includes us....this for TN is the same "lip service" you speak of...because our AG hasnt said a thing about wanting to defend their residents.

as a matter of fact, the Gov even said it wouldnt hold up...

[GLOCKMEISTER]

most of us all knew it was what I call a "warm and fuzzy law"... at least right now.

[Guest canynracer]

I don't agree that it will end badly for us. Worst case is we'll lose and be back to where we are now. I've heard some bright legal minds say, with the current make-up of SCOTUS, we'll win while others say we'll lose.

The best part of this is that several states are working on similar laws, or have already passed them. I know of MT, MN, SC, FL, TX and TN. Plus, AZ just passed the Health Care Freedom Act which is the same legislation covering a different issue.

I'm looking forward to the fight.

Oooohh...**sees something bright and shiny***

We need one of those!!

[Magiccarpetrides]

Yes I think a health care freedom act would do much better.

[eapking]

Wait till the NRA hears of this. They'll find someone to help take this on.

[Photoguy67]

Wait till the NRA hears of this. They'll find someone to help take this on.

I would be willing to bet that they have already "heard of" it and are very aware of it. I seriously doubt that they will do anything about it.

[Jasongar8]

Wait till the NRA hears of this. They'll find someone to help take this on.

The NRA didnt do anything in 1986, what makes you think they are going to do anything now?

-Jason G

[Guest Phantom6]

When I got that letter two things struck me. First of all it seemed so dismissive of the state's right to handle it's own afairs and secondly, in even a more dismissive way, the damned thing wasn't even signed by Carson Carroll who is the Assistant Director of Enforcement Programs but rather by an administrative aid. Apparantly we, the firearms community as a whole, weren't good enough for him to sign his own damned letter.

Arguing the 10th Amendment will be a tough up-hill battle as the Feds will counter with the Commerce Clause (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3) of the Constitution which states that Congress has the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations, among the states, and with the Native American tribes. The 1942 SCOTUS decision on Wickard (Wickard v. Filburn) set the precedent for the Fed's ability to quash the Tenth. You see, just as there was a chance for the wheat to find it's way into the interstate market in 1942, there is just as great a chance that home grown firearms will do so as well. Yes, in the Lopez decision of 1995 (gun free zones around schools) the rediculous notion that gun free zones around schools could be posted and enforced was struck down and the Commerce Clause was weakened a tad but the Tenth was never mentioned in that ruling so we still deal with Wickard.

Those that say that this is not a GUN challenge but rather a general states rights movement are correct and as other have pointed out it will take the combined efforts of all of the states that have recently passed laws in this area (Utah, Texas, Montana, et al). Someone needs to tell our AG to "grow a set" in order to protect the citizens of the state from an overbearing Federal government. Unfortunately we are in a period in this country's history that leans heavily toward a "nanny state" and the general population seems to look heavily to the Federal government to solve all ills. That atmosphere will undoubtedly make solving this problem all the more difficult.

[Guest 270win]

This was to be expected from the ATF. It is similar to fed laws making pot illegal but states allowing small amounts sort of legal like in California for 'medicinal' purposes. Funny how the Obama admin isn't sending DEA to arrest pot growers who are supplying 'medicine' but right off the bat his admin is going full speed against states' rights when it comes to firearms. Why can't everything be enforced equally?

[Guest PapaB]

First round in the fight has now started. If I had one of those letters I'd keep it in good shape. Our chances aren't good but if we somehow win this fight, that letter may become a historical document worthy of framing. You'll be abe to boor your grandkids with stories of the great fight for States rights.

[Guest HexHead]

Well not so much as the "nads" but would it be even worth your while? I'm sure we've all seen the crap recently about Sotomayor and it would be just our luck we would get her in this case.

She wouldn't be any different than Souter regarding this. One anti-gun liberal replacing another.

[Guest HexHead]

This was to be expected from the ATF. It is similar to fed laws making pot illegal but states allowing small amounts sort of legal like in California for 'medicinal' purposes. Funny how the Obama admin isn't sending DEA to arrest pot growers who are supplying 'medicine' but right off the bat his admin is going full speed against states' rights when it comes to firearms. Why can't everything be enforced equally?

Because liberals love dope and hate guns. That was easy. hahahaha.

[DaveTN]

So file a case. I don’t think we need to wait for someone to get arrested. (Heller wasn’t arrested)

Find someone that sells suppressors made in Tennessee and then have them refuse to sell to someone without the ATF paperwork.

[Moped]

This needs to go in baby steps. Something else needs to set the precedence for the 10th Amendment, before firearms. Maybe Health care. Once that precedence is set, then we can move on firearms.

[DaveTN]

I respectfully disagree. A decision on health care won’t stop the ATF from arresting someone on gun charges no matter what the healthcare decision is.

You are talking years for a case to be decided anyway. No need to wait.

<O:p</O:p

The 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment has gone in “Baby stepsâ€. Heller did nothing for us because they dodged the issue.

[Guest GunTroll]

So it would be fair to say this was expected as someone already said. But doesn't this bother you as Tennesseans? Your state just got disrespected by the FED. They have challenged your sovereignty. What is the next step from them.........?