Your HCP legislative wish list

[Guest PapaB]

If you could rewrite TN law on HCP's, what would be on your wish list? For myself it would include:

HCP cost would be reduced to the actual cost to state. No added revenue since this is a right, not a privilege.

HCP holders would need no background check to buy guns. If you hold a valid permit you've already passed the background check.

No local government control. No opt-in or opt-out on any legisation, past options would be voided.

No restrictions without valid evidence that it would actually prevent crime per the Tennessee Constitution - Article I Section 26: "That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime"

I don't condone the idea of doing away with the permit entirely because I haven't thought of a better way to let the public know we're law abiding citizens, not gun toting bad guys. If someone has a better idea, I'd be all for it.

I'd also like to see a law requiring statistics be kept by all LE agencies on gun crimes and shootings. These stats would have to show status of person(s) involved in shootings (ie. LE, permit holder, bad guy etc.) as well as crimes prevented without a gun being fired.

So, what would you add or remove from this?

[Punisher84]

I like your thoughts, but I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and he had a good idea.

How about we do away with permits entirely? No laws restricting carry ANYWHERE. Instead of us, the law abiding citizens, having to prove we are OK, let's put an endorsement on the license/state ID and computer entry of every criminal who shouldn't have a gun. Then, when they get caught with a gun, we lock them up for 5 to 10 years automatic.

[-boatman-]

HCP holders would need no background check to buy guns. If you hold a valid permit you've already passed the background check.

This is the one that that I have been wanting for a long time and cannot see any reason for it not to be that way.

[-boatman-]

How about we do away with permits entirely? No laws restricting carry ANYWHERE. Instead of us, the law abiding citizens, having to prove we are OK, let's put an endorsement on the license/state ID and computer entry of every criminal who shouldn't have a gun. Then, when they get caught with a gun, we lock them up for 5 to 10 years automatic.

That is the best idea I seen in a long time but you know, it's too simple and easy for it to happen. Government just does not work that way.

[USMCJG]

I like your thoughts, but I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and he had a good idea.

How about we do away with permits entirely? No laws restricting carry ANYWHERE. Instead of us, the law abiding citizens, having to prove we are OK, let's put an endorsement on the license/state ID and computer entry of every criminal who shouldn't have a gun. Then, when they get caught with a gun, we lock them up for 5 to 10 years automatic.

I would agree with this, except that I believe private property should still be allowed to be posted by the owner if desired. Not because I agree with it, but because I believe it is the right of the property owner. All public property should be open to the lawful carry of firearms.

[macville]

Since carrying is a "right", I think the state should be allowed to issue a permit (which is good because you need a permit to to carry in other states), but should not be able to charge for the permit and should offer a free class to any one who wants a permit. Truly, how is this any different than charging someone to vote? (a poll tax) The government is MAKING you pay a lot of money to exercise your right to bear arms. It's just funny how driving is a privileged and yet it costs a lot less to get a license than to get a permit for my right to bear arms.

Matthew

[Guest justme]

My wish list would be :

1. no permit required to carry as long as you receive at least 8 hours of firearms training.

2. full post secondary carry allowed.

3. Advanced training required above normal 4 hours range practice for current permit--yes, I believe everyone should receive more than just the standard range practice for your permit--you should have to be willing to receive advanced training in the use of firearms--such as firing on the move, and firing from cover. At least one course per year minimum.

4. Carry permitted in all state/county/city buildings--no way for localities to post off limits. The one place you should not be allowed to carry is within a courtroom during judicial proceedings, but inside the physical court house itself would be fine.

5. total state wide preemption. No "opt out" clauses.

6. parks carry allowed--no "opt out"

7. Allowed to have firearm on person or in car at work site, as long as the place of business was not posted off limits.

8. Ability of law enforcement to disarm the general public nullified during a non-felony stop. LE should clearly articulate the reason for needing to disarm you: Just saying the words "officer safety" just should not cut it.

Edited July 16, 2009 by justme

[Guest PapaB]

Instead of us, the law abiding citizens, having to prove we are OK, let's put an endorsement on the license/state ID and computer entry of every criminal who shouldn't have a gun.

As macville said, many states would drop reciprocity with TN if we don't issue permits.

However, macville, if we ask them to pay for our permits and training they'll want to control us more. There are always trade-offs.

[nightrunner]

allow open carry without a permit, some states do this already.

change age limit from 21 to 18 concerning firearms.

make the permit process as easy as buying a gun.

[Punisher84]

That is the best idea I seen in a long time but you know, it's too simple and easy for it to happen. Government just does not work that way.

Oh yea far too simplistic since it would work lol

I would agree with this, except that I believe private property should still be allowed to be posted by the owner if desired. Not because I agree with it, but because I believe it is the right of the property owner. All public property should be open to the lawful carry of firearms.

I agree with that. Any private owned property is fine, I don't have to go to that store/restaurant/etc.

As macville said, many states would drop reciprocity with TN if we don't issue permits.

However, macville, if we ask them to pay for our permits and training they'll want to control us more. There are always trade-offs.

Yea I guess I'd like to see that changed most of all. Nationwide carry laws the exact same, but then you get into state's right,etc.

[Guest justme]

Yea I guess I'd like to see that changed most of all. Nationwide carry laws the exact same, but then you get into state's right,etc.

but just think--you could actually carry in Illinois, New York, California, and all of those other fascist areas and there would be very very little they could do about it--and if they violate your rights--you sue and sue big. You might even be able to carry in D.C--now think of that for a moment...

yes it gets into states rights--and yes I'm big on states rights...but every so often the federal government actually comes up with a decent piece of legislation--albeit completely by accident.

I also understand the argument of "the government realizes that they can give us the right to carry everywhere--so they set a precedent for confiscating all guns...." This concept goes along the idea of "the government giveth and the government taketh away..."

So there are many pros and cons to this idea...

[Motasyco]

The parking lot bill!

[Guest canynracer]

So long as I am not infringing on others rights, my right should not be infringed.

no permits, or a federal permit, if you get the federal permit, you carry anywhere. otherwise, no permit within your state of residence.

Federal permit cannot be denied if you are law abiding, and take training course on OPERATION and SAFETY of your firearm, and self defense laws.

Oh, and the government only has 90 days to issue the permit.

Folks can post, that is their right.

[Guest canynracer]

Oh..and your replacement for the permit???

hahahaha

[Guest Jcochran88]

I agree with most, no opt out for state, or federally owned properties.

Make it good for any state in the union.

[Guest HexHead]

HCP holders would need no background check to buy guns. If you hold a valid permit you've already passed the background check.

I have mixed feeling on this one. While I agree with you in principle, the permit background check can be up to four years old. Things can come up during that time period that would make someone ineligible to buy a gun.

[Guest GimpyLeg]

I don't know that I would change having to apply for a HCP and do a background check for a HCP. One would be the reciprocity with other states. Also, how many times have I heard the arguement that HCP holders are non-felons, upstanding, honest, law abiding citizens? Would NOT requiring the HCP process defeat that? Not that that a background check makes us all that or that non-HCP citizens are of a different class. Just thinking out loud...

[Guest GimpyLeg]

I also think that there should be no "opt-out" from local politicians for ALL public property. Private is private.

[Guest HexHead]

but just think--you could actually carry in Illinois, New York, California, and all of those other fascist areas and there would be very very little they could do about it--and if they violate your rights--you sue and sue big. You might even be able to carry in D.C--now think of that for a moment...

yes it gets into states rights--and yes I'm big on states rights...but every so often the federal government actually comes up with a decent piece of legislation--albeit completely by accident.

I also understand the argument of "the government realizes that they can give us the right to carry everywhere--so they set a precedent for confiscating all guns...." This concept goes along the idea of "the government giveth and the government taketh away..."

So there are many pros and cons to this idea...

The carry permit is essentially a license. The full faith and credit law requires states to recognize each others drivers licenses and marriage licenses. Handgun carry "licenses" shouldn't be any different. Just like you have to obey the host state's driving rules, you'd have to obey the host state's handgun carry rules. This should be a no brainer but will never happen while Dear Leader is in power.

[ukerduker]

HCP cost would be reduced to the actual cost to state. No added revenue since this is a right, not a privilege.

Veterans would be afforded a free lifetime permit with the completion of the background check.

[Guest justme]

The carry permit is essentially a license. The full faith and credit law requires states to recognize each others drivers licenses and marriage licenses. Handgun carry "licenses" shouldn't be any different. Just like you have to obey the host state's driving rules, you'd have to obey the host state's handgun carry rules. This should be a no brainer but will never happen while Dear Leader is in power.

I don't disagree with the full faith and credit clause. I am very much in favor of it.

I think we should be allowed to carry not only nation wide, but also into US possessions and territories, I am absolutely loosening the restrictions on possession and carry of firearms and for opening more places up to carry--places that would make Brady and the antis quake at the mere thought of it.

I am for strengthening--really strengthening the Constitutional rights of every American.

the problem is--until this country and the entire federal judiciary and legislative branch/executive branches, as well as all state legislative branches/judiciary gets back to the basic foundation for our laws--the Constitution, and quits interpreting it how they see fit and simply accept it for what it is--then you can forget Art. 4 Sec 1.

[ukerduker]

Upon further pondering......

Class III holders with HCP should be able to move their SBRs, suppressors, FA guns, AOW, and SBS across state lines without a permission slip. Why do I need a permission slip?

[Guest 270win]

If i could rewrite the handgun carry permit laws I would change the following:

1. Eliminate the 'proper signs' law and make the signs mean nothing so that we can't get fined. This would make carrying at all local and state buildings de facto legal.

2. Make it legal to carry with a permit in or on school property.

3. Eliminate this opt out garbage for local/county parks.

4. Make it COMPLETELY legal (again no opting out or garbage AG opinion..clarify the law) to be able to carry at the local parks, convention centers, playgrounds, rec areas.

5. Gun storage lockers inside courthouses at those that prohibit carry.