Tennessee Firearms freedom act?

[ceraldi]

so now that the TFFA is law:

"A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Tennessee and that remains within the borders of Tennessee is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Tennessee from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported into this state. Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Tennessee and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Tennessee does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation."

"(1) “Firearms accessories†means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination;

(2) “Generic and insignificant parts†includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins; and

(3) “Manufactured†means creating a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials."

Seams that I could go get some electrical conduit and other bits and build a supressor in my garage, stamp "Made in Tennessee" on it and be GTG? What do you guys think?

Anyone "Test" this law yet?

[G27]

*watches thread closely...*

[Chucktshoes]

so now that the TFFA is law:

Seams that I could go get some electrical conduit and other bits and build a supressor in my garage, stamp "Made in Tennessee" on it and be GTG? What do you guys think?

Anyone "Test" this law yet?

That's pretty much the gist of the law. Whether or not anyone has the cahones, lack of sense or both (depending on your POV) to test it without a crack legal team in place is another matter entirely.

I am not brave enough yet. Though I gotta say I am itchin' too.

[strickj]

So does anybody make any SBR uppers in TN?

[Smith]

I bet Sabre would. Of course I think every part has to be made in Tennesse?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

So much for your "freedom act"... ATF has chimmed in already.

[G27]

So much for your "freedom act"... ATF has chimmed in already.

Err, little help?

OK, try here: http://crimsonaudio.net/guns/ATF_TFFA.pdf

Edited July 16, 2009 by crimsonaudio

[GLOCKMEISTER]

[G27]

OK, so who wants to go first?

[Motasyco]

Looks like we need some thread merging.

[Guest ScottD]

Their federal law is all great and grand except we ratified the 10th. State sovereignty*. What now Obamatard? It pisses me off that the Fed thinks they can just control whatever they damn well feel like controlling.

*I wont be the one to test them.

Edited July 17, 2009 by ScottD

[Guest 270win]

I don't think i'd be building a new suppressor or short shotgun or rifle in the basement wholly made in Tennessee quite yet. The ATF guys, who answer to Obama at the moment, probably don't think this is too funny. I doubt you are going to find any legit gunmakers risk losing their manufacturers' license by selling tennessee suppressors to tennesseans and bypassing the class three paperwork. I wouldn't if I was in that business. All this will have to go to the courts through legal channels and will take time. We all saw how long it took Heller to be decided.

[Guest 270win]

I don't think i'd be building a new suppressor or short shotgun or rifle in the basement wholly made in Tennessee quite yet. The ATF guys, who answer to Obama at the moment, probably don't think this is too funny. I doubt you are going to find any legit gunmakers risk losing their manufacturers' license by selling tennessee suppressors to tennesseans and bypassing the class three paperwork. I wouldn't if I was in that business. All this will have to go to the courts through legal channels and will take time. We all saw how long it took Heller to be decided. As of now I think

[Guest 270win]

I don't think i'd be building a new suppressor or short shotgun or rifle in the basement wholly made in Tennessee quite yet. The ATF guys, who answer to Obama at the moment, probably don't think this is too funny. I doubt you are going to find any legit gunmakers risk losing their manufacturers' license by selling tennessee suppressors to tennesseans and bypassing the class three paperwork. I wouldn't if I was in that business. All this will have to go to the courts through legal channels and will take time. We all saw how long it took Heller to be decided. As of now I think i'd pay the tax. It is cheaper than court and

[mrbond]

Another example of an out of control federal government, significantly larger than the founding father's ever intended, running roughshod over states who are supposed to have all powers not specifically designated to the federal government.

Their federal law is all great and grand except we ratified the 10th. State sovereignty*. What now Obamatard? It pisses me off that the Fed thinks they can just control whatever they damn well feel like controlling.

[Reservoir Dog]

Seams that I could go get some electrical conduit and other bits and build a supressor in my garage, stamp "Made in Tennessee" on it and be GTG? What do you guys think?

Anyone "Test" this law yet?

I think you would probably go to jail if you are caught. Including the NFA violation, the TFFA does not change TCA 39-17-1302. Suppressors are still illegal, unless you fall under one of the exceptions. There is no exception for a "made in TN" suppressor, SBR, SBS, or MG.

I fail to see why everyone is getting excited over this TFFA. It is nothing more than a "feel good" act. Other than the warm and fuzzy feeling, it really means nothing.

[Guest glaspar]

[i do hope the state of Tn. fights the Feds on this gun issue. The last time I heard State rules supersede Federal rules. Also at some point the second Ammendment comes into play. The state of Montana has subbitted similar legislation and Utah and Texas are seriously thinking about it. I pray they all follow through and stick to their Constitution and legal rights. God Bless you all Tennessee, support you government. Jean from Oregon,

[tntnixon]

Until there is a gun maker who actually makes and sells a firearm under the act, the courts will not hear it because there is no injured party and the federal courts are reluctant to hear hypotheticals. Therefore, until someone has the cajones to test the law, everyone will sit and wonder if the act is valid or not.

My question to any of you wouldbe firearm manufacturers is: What would Randolf Scott do?

[Guest redbarron06]

remimber it does not have to be a firearm. It would be easier to build a suppressor.

[tntnixon]

Making a suppressor would be illegal under the act. Therefore, there would be no court case because the maker would be guilty under Tennessee law because they didn't follow NFA rules. TFFA does not remove the federal requirements of NFA weapons because it does not legalize them.

No, to challenge the law, you would have to make something in the neighborhood of a single-shot break-action 22 rifle.

[Guest redbarron06]

Making a suppressor would be illegal under the act. Therefore, there would be no court case because the maker would be guilty under Tennessee law because they didn't follow NFA rules. TFFA does not remove the federal requirements of NFA weapons because it does not legalize them.

No, to challenge the law, you would have to make something in the neighborhood of a single-shot break-action 22 rifle.

Correction, check section 4

SECTION 4. As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) “Firearms accessories†means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination;

(2) “Generic and insignificant parts†includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins; and

(3) “Manufactured†means creating a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials.

SECTION 5. A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Tennessee and that remains within the borders of Tennessee is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Tennessee from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported into this state. Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Tennessee and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Tennessee does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation. It is declared by the legislature that basic materials, such as unmachined steel and unshaped wood, are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition and are not subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition. The authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition made in Tennessee from those materials. Firearms accessories that are imported into Tennessee from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in Tennessee.

So you see all I need to make a supressor IAW this law is the machineing equipment and raw metal. Under this law I can make one for myself in my shop (if I had the tools), stamp it made in Tennessee and it would be legal under this act. This of course does not factor in any other Tennessee laws.

[tntnixon]

I don't know if this overides the previous State law regarding possesion of a suppressor. I think previous law still requires clearance by the feds. Kind of ambiguous. To me it sounds as if it is not illegal to make them or buy them but in order to possess them it has to be cleared by the feds. It's difficult to make or buy something without possessing it. At least that's my experience. But as the 9th Cicuit of Appeals ruled several years ago, keeping and bearing arms is not the same as owning and possessing.

[Guest Muttling]

Their federal law is all great and grand except we ratified the 10th. State sovereignty*. What now Obamatard? It pisses me off that the Fed thinks they can just control whatever they damn well feel like controlling.

*I wont be the one to test them.

The 10th does not give state law priority over Federal law, it only ensures state rights to regulate things that are NOT powers of the Federal government. (10th ammendement and article VI are quoted below.)

The crux of the argument is......Does the Constitution and the "laws of the United States" give Federal government the right to regulate fire arms? I think the answer is a pretty strong yes.

However, one only needs to look to the issue of legalized medical marajuana in California for a good example of a 10th ammendment pissing match.

10th Ammendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Constitution Article VI Paragraph 2 gives supremecy to Federal laws:

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

Edited July 24, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest unreconstructed1]

The crux of the argument is......Does the Constitution and the "laws of the United States" give Federal government the right to regulate fire arms? I think the answer is a pretty strong yes.

However, one only needs to look to the issue of legalized medical marajuana in California for a good example of a 10th ammendment pissing match.

you are quite correct on one aspect, the entire argument does rest upon constitutional authority in relation to firearms, but show me where in the constitution itsays "congress may regulate ...."

short answer, it doesn't.

in my reading of the constitution, i find over and over only one phrase "Shall not be infringed"

10th Ammendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Constitution Article VI Paragraph 2 gives supremecy to Federal laws:

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

you forgot to highlight the most important part:

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof"

in order for a law to be considered "supreme", or in fact even to be considered legal, it must be constitutionally valid. while there is a rather weak argument ( which has been abused by the FED for years) for the regulation of guns that travel across state lines, there is in fact NO constitutional authority for the regulation of guns which remain in a State

Edited July 29, 2009 by unreconstructed1

[Guest redbarron06]

The constitution does give Congress the right to regulate firearms that are made in one state and sold in another as this would fall under interstate commerce. The consitution does not give the federal govt the right, ability, or authority to regulate items that dont leave a state. This means that any law made by congress that effects the ability of anything made in one state to be sold in that state violates the constitution.