cards for gun banning establishments

[Guest tdtennessee]

where can we get the cards i saw on the news tonight. if this has already been posted sorry for the repost but i really didnt know what to search for.

[56FordGuy]

Any more info about the cards? I didn't see the news spot. Are these basically some sort of "No guns = No Money" cards?

[Fallguy]

The cards you saw on the news were made up by the TFA.

David did mention something about maybe making some TGO cards, maybe he'll be along in a little to give more info.

[Guest tdtennessee]

Any more info about the cards? I didn't see the news spot. Are these basically some sort of "No guns = No Money" cards?

yea they basically said to leave one of these cards with your check to let them know you wont be back. he said to not make a "ruckus", just leave the card and go.

[Guest clsutton21]

so what exactly is the point of the cards? I'm missing out on something here.

[cybernorris]

The cards I have seen from other states politely say that because they post, you will take your business elsewhere.

Am working on one now.

Edited July 14, 2009 by cybernorris

[Photoguy67]

http://www.*********.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2184

I think that is what everyone is looking for.

Billy

[cybernorris]

This one is from Missouri. Here's their front side:

http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/NoGunsNoMoney-Variety.pdf

The back side version for Tennessee is ready and waiting for a clean TGO logo? PM sent to TGO David.

Edited July 14, 2009 by cybernorris

[TGO David]

so what exactly is the point of the cards? I'm missing out on something here.

That is exactly the question that I have struggled with for a while now and the reason why I have opted not to produce these cards for TGO to date.

Frankly, the TFA cards strike me as being marketing propaganda with very little meat behind them given the illogical situation in which you would have to find yourself in order to use them in the first place.

Consider the facts:

It is incumbent upon the HCP holder to notice whether or not an establishment is posted as a prohibited location before he or she enters the restaurant.

If you have already dined, you owe the establishment your money. If it is the TFA's position that you leave these cards with your payment... you've accomplished what precisely? You have already given them your money. The waitstaff will likely throw the card away and the manager will never see it. If the manager does see it, so what? They already have your money. So you've proven what? That you may not be back? To most restaurants, that's not exactly a big deal.

Alternatively you would notice that the restaurant is posted, and then go inside to deliver a card and then leave without dining and subsequently paying. Riiiiiiight. Who did you give the card to? Waitress? Manager? Just drop it on the counter (crop dusting) and leave? As a non-paying hit and run activist, your opinion likely means nothing to the management.

So again, I think this is a pretty useless tactic.

Rather than send you all out with silly cards similar to what TFA borrowed from several other state's web sites, I am trying to come up with something a little different that actually has some teeth behind it.

Stay tuned.

[strickj]

We could hire peta girls to do protest for us!

[BrasilNuts]

When you do something like this you would need to go a little overboard to get their attention. You would need to order one of the most expensive items on the menu and then leave a tip of 40-50% or more if you can. It would also help if you were dressed nicely and were very polite to the server. The card would need to politely explain that you disarmed to enter and will not be returning to their establishment.

If you throw down a very big tip you are going to get their attention.

[Guest HexHead]

That is exactly the question that I have struggled with for a while now and the reason why I have opted not to produce these cards for TGO to date.

Frankly, the TFA cards strike me as being marketing propaganda with very little meat behind them given the illogical situation in which you would have to find yourself in order to use them in the first place.

Rather than send you all out with silly cards similar to what TFA borrowed from several other state's web sites, I am trying to come up with something a little different that actually has some teeth behind it.

Stay tuned.

I agree. To use the cards now, means you are eating and giving money to a place you're already saying you won't go into.

My advice is that since most of these places have websites, we as a block, deluge the "contact us" section of the website or emails with letters saying "we won't visit your establishment as long as it remains posted".

A few hundred (or better yet, thousand) messages will show these owners "in black & white" the amount of prospective business their signs are costing them.

But we need to deluge them. Lose a handful of customers, no big deal. Hundreds can be an eye opener for them.

I've sent several so far, to places like Calhoun's and Sportsman's Grill, telling them I've eaten there often and enjoyed it, but as long as they remain posted, I'll never darken their door again with my family and friends.

(look at their menus online and mention a particular dish you like) hehehe.

[Guest Ray]

I have thought about this and think that leaving a card does send a message. In todays economy, these businesses can not afford to lose customers. I know of a place were the manager/owner and I are on a familiar basis with each other. The Owner wishes for no person to carry in his establishment with the exception of law enforcement officers. I told him that if that be the case that he could count on losing my about $200.00 every month and a half that I pay to his establishment.

The owner was surprised that I would do this and then went on to state that, I as a law enforcement officer would not be affected, that what did I care? I told him in this Country it is our Constitutional right to bear arms, and that I felt he was infringing upon my rights as a citizen, not as an officer.

I sure would hate to find myself in the same situation as others have, in a place without their weapon and watching their loved ones getting killed and knowing that they might have been able to help had they had their weapon.

I love the fact that I was turned on to this site by a friend. You guys are doing a great job for our right to carry.

[TGO David]

I have thought about this and think that leaving a card does send a message. In todays economy, these businesses can not afford to lose customers.

But tell me this...

If you notice that a restaurant is posted and you decide to leave the card, do you disarm before going inside? I doubt many people would be willing to do that, assuming that they are willing to go inside in the first place. Failure to disarm before you go inside puts you in the position of violating the law.

My stance is pretty simple: I think the cards, as TFA and other organizations present them, are stupid. They amount to nothing more than feel-good drive-by activism for people who want to take a stand but want to do it with relative anonymity, choosing instead to redirect the ire of the restaurant owner at an entire organization. The best option here is to have a friendly, non-confrontational, face to face discussion with the owner or management of your favorite restaurant when/if they decide to post. Explain to them that you're a long time patron and that you really love their establishment, but you're going to have to take your money elsewhere if they persist in demanding that you come into their restaurant void of your legal means of self protection.

If you're a regular customer and this restaurant values your business, your words will carry weight and might affect some change. This happened just recently with Nikki Goeser and the Bar-B-Cutie restaurant on Donnelson Pike here in Nashville.

Cards left on a table or handed to the manager while you're in a huff about their rightful decision to prohibit carry aren't going to do squat for the cause.

I don't really think TFA is trying to accomplish anything positive with these cards other than raise awareness that they exist, and honestly think the cards have more potential to do harm to the cause (or at least to the reputation of that organization) than they have the potential for good. If these cards were a good idea, organizations with more firepower beneath their belts (such as the NRA) would have been doing it a long time ago. The NRA spares no expense in marketing their organization and in evangelizing pro-2nd Amendment ideas and ideals. There's probably a very good reason why this isn't one of their tactics.

Again, I'm still kicking around some ideas in my head for a way that a hand-out of some sort could be used positively for our side of the issue, but I'm not ready to make any sort of announcement just yet.

[Guest HexHead]

If you're a regular customer and this restaurant values your business, your words will carry weight and might affect some change. This happened just recently with Nikki Goeser and the Bar-B-Cutie restaurant on Donnelson Pike here in Nashville.

Unless something's changed, I thought Nikki's conversation with the manager at Bar-B-Cutie was an exercise in futility and frustrating at best?

[Guest Crunchman]

"My stance is pretty simple: I think the cards, as TFA and other organizations present them, are stupid. They amount to nothing more than feel-good drive-by activism for people who want to take a stand but want to do it with relative anonymity, choosing instead to redirect the ire of the restaurant owner at an entire organization. The best option here is to have a friendly, non-confrontational, face to face discussion with the owner or management of your favorite restaurant when/if they decide to post. Explain to them that you're a long time patron and that you really love their establishment, but you're going to have to take your money elsewhere if they persist in demanding that you come into their restaurant void of your legal means of self protection." TGO David

Right on the nose!!

[Fallguy]

Unless something's changed, I thought Nikki's conversation with the manager at Bar-B-Cutie was an exercise in futility and frustrating at best?

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/318317-post8.html

GREAT NEWS!!!!!! BAR-B-CUTIE ON DONELSON PIKE (NASHVILLE TN) JUST TOOK DOWN THE "NO GUNS ALLOWED" SIGN!!!! I walked in and talked with one of the servers and she said that the Manager decided to take it down because of all the info she was getting from people like us through calls, emails & letters! I am so HAPPY! I freak'in LOVE Bar-B-Cutie's food and I was heartbroken when they posted so......all of you guys need to please contact this manager and let her know how much you appreciate her taking the sign down. We need to get out there and give her our business to show our support of her supporting us!

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/318323-post8.html

BAR-B-CUTIE

Donelson Pike

501 Donelson Pike, Nashville, TN

Catering Specialist Contact: Lynn - 834-6556

They took down their Posting! Make sure you contact them and thank them and go spend $$$ there!

[TGO David]

Unless something's changed, I thought Nikki's conversation with the manager at Bar-B-Cutie was an exercise in futility and frustrating at best?

As Fallguy showed, Bar-B-Cutie changed their mind. For the record, Nikki had conversations with the establishment staff and the manager received emails, calls and letters asking them to reconsider or risk losing paying customers.

She didn't crop-dust them with a silly business card threatening to take her money elsewhere, she interacted with them, one on one, and mobilized others to do the same. THAT tactic is effective and TGO members excel at it. It's honest, grass roots activism.

I was told pointedly by Senator Jackson immediately following the passing of HB0962 that he appreciated the calls, emails and other support and prodding given by TGO MEMBERS. He mentioned you folks by specifically by name. That's not a pat on my back, folks. It's a direct compliment to each and every one of you who take the time to call, email and write letters when things need to be changed.

[Guest HexHead]

I'm glad to see we were successful in turning them around.

Their posting made no sense since they don't serve alcohol. Hopefully we can be just as successful with places that do.

[TGO David]

I hope that we can have a good percentage of success in that as well, but ultimately we must be respectful of their right to post if they so desire. My own thinking on this has obviously evolved a bit over the past month.

Does that mean to accept defeat? No. But it does mean that we can be gentle in the way that we apply peer pressure. If I owned a restaurant, I'd be more willing to listen to a reasonable request than a foaming at the mouth demand or a card left on my counter, threatening that some nameless, faceless coward was going to take his business elsewhere (and good riddance to him or her).

Face-time with the managers and wait staff is important, as is the impression that you make on them. Let it be a good impression. Leave a healthy tip. Don't resort to maniacal spit-infused rantings. We all see what sort of impression it left on Nikki and the rest of us when Randy Rayburn lost his cool with her. Why would we want to leave that sort of impression on anyone else?

[Fallguy]

This may be what you are working on Dave.....but I think one way a card, or flyer or broucher or whatever could come in handy is after you have had the face to face talk with the manager.

You know, be able to leave them something with the facts about what sort of checks a HCP holder has gone through and other stats about how few crimes HCP holders have commited. That criminals will not respect a posted sign... and any other relevant info you or others can think to add.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Fallguy

[TGO David]

Yep, that's part of the plan.

[Mike.357]

I've sent several so far, to places like Calhoun's and Sportsman's Grill, telling them I've eaten there often and enjoyed it, but as long as they remain posted, I'll never darken their door again with my family and friends.

(look at their menus online and mention a particular dish you like) hehehe.

I had the chance to go by two Calhoun's today. The one on Bearden Hill

and the one by Pellissippi Parkway. I did not get out of the truck, but the front door area was not posted. The only signs I saw were what CC they accepted and the univeral "no smoking "signs. Nothing mentioning firearms at all.

[cybernorris]

Yep, that's part of the plan.

I've been unhappy with how little information can be placed on a biz card sized card.

[LagerHead]

Strickj - so many jokes, so little time.