Long Guns and State Park

[Guest bkelm18]

Ok, so I know we can carry in State Parks now, and I know we can have "loaded" (empty chamber) long guns in our car now (with HCP), but what about long guns in State Parks? I'm thinking no but I just want to be sure.

[Fallguy]

I think you are right,

The new park carry law simply made an exception for handgun carry with a HCP, not firearms or long guns in a park.

[Guest bkelm18]

Ok that's what I was thinking but just wanted to be sure. Thanks.

[JayC]

If you mean on your person walking around, I agree the answer is no, still illegal.

But, if you mean in your car, the way the current law is worded, it would seem the answer is yes that would be allowed.

[Fallguy]

If you mean on your person walking around, I agree the answer is no, still illegal.

But, if you mean in your car, the way the current law is worded, it would seem the answer is yes that would be allowed.

I don't think that is right.

Even with the long gun law....you can't walk around with a loaded long gun anywhere. HCP holders can have one inside their vehicle.

The new parks bill leaves 39-17-1311(a) in place which says it is illegal to carry any firearms period anywhere in a park.

Then there is a list of exceptions in 39-17-1311((1), the new law adds 39-17-1311((1)(I) and 39-17-1311((1)(J) which only makes an exception for those with a HCP to carry a handgun.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Fallguy

[jughead]

jumped to conclusions

Edited July 12, 2009 by jughead
cant read correctly

[Guest bkelm18]

I wasn't 100% clear on what I was meaning, I wasn't meaning carrying a long gun, I meant leaving it in the car, loaded but with an empty chamber. The way I understand it, is that you cannot.

[Fallguy]

I wasn't 100% clear on what I was meaning, I wasn't meaning carrying a long gun, I meant leaving it in the car, loaded but with an empty chamber. The way I understand it, is that you cannot.

That is my belief as well.

Basically all firearms (handguns and long guns) are banned from parks, except for list exemptions.

The list of eximptions now includes HCP holders, but only for handguns.

[JayC]

I don't think that is right.

Even with the long gun law....you can't walk around with a loaded long gun anywhere. HCP holders can have one inside their vehicle.

The new parks bill leaves 39-17-1311(a) in place which says it is illegal to carry any firearms period anywhere in a park.

Then there is a list of exceptions in 39-17-1311((1), the new law adds 39-17-1311((1)(I) and 39-17-1311((1)(J) which only makes an exception for those with a HCP to carry a handgun.

Ok, I'm very likely wrong here, but here is my logic...

39-17-1311 A states:

It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

39-17-1302A states the following:

A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:

(1) An explosive or an explosive weapon;

(2) A device principally designed, made or adapted for delivering or shooting an explosive weapon;

(3) A machine gun;

(4) A short-barrel rifle or shotgun;

(5) A firearm silencer;

(6) Hoax device;

(7) A switchblade knife or knuckles; or

(8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose.

Now, I don't see a regular rifle or shotgun listed there... It's always been my understanding that you could carry an unloaded firearm in your vehicle into a state park unless you handled said weapon. That 39-17-1307 was the law that prevented the carry of a loaded long gun anywhere in the state.

Since it's now a lawful purpose to carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle if you have a HCP it doesn't appear that 39-17-1302A8 is being violated.

I'm probably wrong... But I don't see where 39-17-1311 prohibits carrying of a standard loaded rifle/shotgun in your vehicle on a state park, and since 39-17-1307 allows you to 'go armed' with one now, it would appear if the rifle was left in your vehicle it does not violate current state law...

Is there an error in my logic?

[Fallguy]

I understand what your saying...but that argument has been tried before.

I mean 39-17-1302(a) doesn't say anything about handguns either, but the AG has said that even though handguns are not listed they are still (at the time) prohibited. 07-148 (Question 3) and then when questioned about the specifc thing you mention he issued 08-26 still standing by his orginal opinion and also going further to say all firearms are prohibited from park.

So that is why I say 39-17-1311(a) prohibits long guns and handguns and the new law only added handguns for those with a HCP as being legal.

[JayC]

AG 08-26 was a long shot theory at best, some of the theories the AG uses in that HCP holders are now a protected class listed in 39-17-1311 and then the legislature approved a state wide exception for the intent to go armed in 39-17-1307e for HCP holders involving long guns... It weakens his argument IMHO...

I'm curious to see if there is any case law where somebody was charged for carrying an unloaded firearm in their vehicle under 39-17-1311a... Or if all the charges have been under 39-17-1307...

The best bet is to get the language in 39-17-1307e added to 39-17-1311 in the next session to remove this issue, since everywhere else in the state you're allowed to transport a loaded long gun if you're allowed to carry a handgun.

[bigwakes]

Tennessee State Parks: Policies

States:

In park, natural, and historical areas the use of traps, seines, handthrown spears, nets (except landing nets), firearms (including air and gas powered pistols and rifles), blow guns, bows and arrows or crossbows, and any other implements designed to discharge missiles in the air or under the water which are capable of destroying animal life is prohibited. The possession of such objects or implements is prohibited unless they are unloaded and adequately cased, or broken down or otherwise packed in such a way as to prevent their use while in the park areas.

What does that last part mean? I interpret that to mean you can have an unloaded locked weapon in your car without penalty.

[Oh Shoot]

... The possession of such objects or implements is prohibited unless they are unloaded and adequately cased, or broken down or otherwise packed in such a way as to prevent their use while in the park areas.

What does that last part mean? I interpret that to mean you can have an unloaded locked weapon in your car without penalty.

Well, it obviously doesn't mean jack if you have a HCP, as far as a loaded handgun is concerned.

Certainly you can have an unloaded long gun, with ammo well separated, in your vehicle, just as you can anywhere else in TN, including a National Park, where permitted hand gun carry is not quite yet legal.

I lean toward the notion that if you have a HCP, you could also legally have a loaded long gun in the vehicle in state park also, but I'm not the TN Attorney General (I have much more common sense than he).

Remember, that whatever "no guns" signs that are on the side of the road in state parks were not mandated to be removed or modified with the passage of the state park carry statute. And I'd reason that their website is the same old wording also.

- OS

[BBill_TN]

Well, it obviously doesn't mean jack if you have a HCP, as far as a loaded handgun is concerned.

Certainly you can have an unloaded long gun, with ammo well separated, in your vehicle, just as you can anywhere else in TN, including a National Park, where permitted hand gun carry is not quite yet legal.

I lean toward the notion that if you have a HCP, you could also legally have a loaded long gun in the vehicle in state park also, but I'm not the TN Attorney General (I have much more common sense than he).

Remember, that whatever "no guns" signs that are on the side of the road in state parks were not mandated to be removed or modified with the passage of the state park carry statute. And I'd reason that their website is the same old wording also.

- OS

They actually have updated the HCP exception. I was pretty impressed by how quickly they did so. It was just a few weeks after the law went into effect. From the same web page listed above:

Exception 4: While State Parks' rules and regulations prohibit firearm possession and use, Public Chapter 428 of 2009 created an exception in state firearms law that allows individuals with a valid "carry permit" under TCA § 39-17-1351 to carry a handgun within the boundaries of all state parks. While this new law makes an exception for possession, it does not make exception to the use of a firearm. Discharging a weapon in non-designated areas of our parks is still an offense. If a permit holder fires a weapon in self-defense, the holder bears the burden of proof to avoid potential charges under "prohibited firearm use."

Notice the NO PLINKING clause to make sure we don't get out of hand:)