Gun Law Question

[Guest Sasquatch]

Okay here goes,

i know a guy who bought a mac 10 knock off called a vulcan. It uses the old Army grease gun .45 mags and has a short barrel threaded on the outside for accessories. He installed a detachable buttstock and had a machinist make him an 11 inch piece of mild steel pipe threaded to screw onto the barrel so it would look like a silencer (not rifled). He took it completely apart to clean and could not reassemble the trigger group, so he took it to a local gun shop for repair... this is where it gets sticky... a local off duty policeman was standing by and threatened to have him arrested if he did not turn the gun over to be destroyed, claiming it was an illegal short barreled rifle. From what i can see as far as the law goes, this is a gray area, and he is confused because the

gun uses what has mostly been a pistol round and the barrel itself makes it a pistol, the buttstock is one of those wire detachable jobs..... anybody know gun law well enough to offer an opinion here?

thanks, ron

[molonlabetn]

Attaching a butt-stock to a pistol without completing a Form 4 and paying the $200 for an NFA tax-stamp is a Federal offense, yes, your friend is lucky to not be facing charges!

[The Rabbi]

I would tend to agree. If the barrel was somehow made permanently 16" you'd be on better grounds. Fixing a butt stock to a pistol is bad ju-ju.

The whole thing of course is stupid. Why should a 16" barrel be OK but a 15" barrel not OK? The Feds would be doing everyone a favor by removing SBRs from the NFA.

[fury2neon]

I would tend to agree. If the barrel was somehow made permanently 16" you'd be on better grounds. Fixing a butt stock to a pistol is bad ju-ju.

The whole thing of course is stupid. Why should a 16" barrel be OK but a 15" barrel not OK? The Feds would be doing everyone a favor by removing SBRs from the NFA.

Agreed, and we can buy guns, machetes, chain saws, etc... but can't by a switch blade. Where is the logic in that

[The Rabbi]

Agreed, and we can buy guns, machetes, chain saws, etc... but can't by a switch blade. Where is the logic in that

Because a chain saw is a tool. A switch blade is a killing instrument. Make sense now?

[Guest Steelharp]

Here's a funny part; you CAN buy a switchblade IF you own two or more knives. You are then a "collector," and the switchblade is legal.

[Guest Sasquatch]

what I dont get is you can buy a barrett 50 cal and an ak47 and sks rifles and put every accessory on them, but dont put a butt stock on a 45 which you would have a hard time hitting anything with past 50 yards?

[The Rabbi]

I am sure in 1936 it made some kind of sense. Think of what handguns were available: .45LC, 1911 in .45acp, .357mag, .38spc, .38Super, and all the little .38s, .32s and .25s. There was no big handgun caliber like .44mag, .480 Ruger etc. Nor was there a platform like a Thompson Center handgun, shooting rifle bullets. So a really powerful,concealable weapon was a sawed off rifle.

Today of course a sawed off rifle is a joke.

[DaveTN]

a local off duty policeman was standing by and threatened to have him arrested if he did not turn the gun over to be destroyed, claiming it was an illegal short barreled rifle. From what i can see as far as the law goes, this is a gray area, and he is confused

There are no gray areas to the ATF. I’m going to guess that the cop didn’t let him go home to think it over; so what happened?

<O:p</O:p

[fury2neon]

Here's a funny part; you CAN buy a switchblade IF you own two or more knives. You are then a "collector," and the switchblade is legal.

That is interesting I had not heard that loophole.

[Guest Sasquatch]

they have the gun, and he cant get it back as of right now, i know an examiner w/atf and will call him tuesday and see about whether he can get legal, in my mind, the website selling those buttstocks ought to have a warning for people who dont realize that they are going to be violating the law. the same company plainly shows that you cant ship certain things to your home without an ffl and you just about need a law degree anymore to know all this stuff.

thanks, again, ron

[andersmg]

That is interesting I had not heard that loophole.

Yes, I have personally been told this by many knife dealers when I asked about the legality of owning a switch blade.

I am a collector now, how about that!

[Guest crytes]

Thats a cool loophole. I didn't know that my switchblades were legal past my seperation from the army, but seeing as I have hundreds of knifes I guess I'm a collector as well.

Crytes

[DaveTN]

Yes, I have personally been told this by many knife dealers when I asked about the legality of owning a switch blade.

I am a collector now, how about that!

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:State>Switchblades are cover by state law.

Here is what the Tennessee criminal code says about it.</st1:State>

<st1:State>

<st1:State>It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the person must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that:

(1) The person's conduct was relative to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament or keepsake, </st1:State>

</st1:State><st1:State>“Affirmative defense†and “Preponderance of the evidence†tells me that if you are going to claim to be a collector, you are going to be doing it in court after you have been arrested. That’s not a very good “loop holeâ€. </st1:State>

<st1:State></st1:State>

<st1:State>

<st1:State>39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons. —</st1:State>

<st1:State>(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:

(1) An explosive or an explosive weapon;

(2) A device principally designed, made or adapted for delivering or shooting an explosive weapon;

(3) A machine gun;

(4) A short-barrel rifle or shotgun;

(5) A firearm silencer;

(6) Hoax device;

(7) A switchblade knife or knuckles; or

(8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose.

( It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person's conduct:

(1) Was incident to the performance of official duty and pursuant to military regulations in the army, navy, air force, coast guard or marine service of the United States or the Tennessee national guard, or was incident to the performance of official duty in a governmental law enforcement agency or a penal institution;

(2) Was incident to engaging in a lawful commercial or business transaction with an organization identified in subdivision ((1);

(3) Was incident to using an explosive or an explosive weapon in a manner reasonably related to a lawful industrial or commercial enterprise;

(4) Was incident to using the weapon in a manner reasonably related to a lawful dramatic performance or scientific research;

(5) Was incident to displaying the weapon in a public museum or exhibition;

(6) Was licensed by the state of Tennessee as a manufacturer, importer or dealer in weapons; provided, that the manufacture, import, purchase, possession, sale or disposition of weapons is authorized and incident to carrying on the business for which licensed and is for scientific or research purposes or sale or disposition to an organization designated in subdivision ((1);

(7) Involved acquisition or possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun or firearm silencer that is validly registered to the person under federal law in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Records. A person who acquires or possesses a firearm registered as required by this subdivision ((7) shall retain proof of registration; or

(8) Involved the manufacture and sale of an automatic knife; provided, that the sale of such knife was limited to:

(A) Retail establishments that represent in writing under oath before a notary public that they only sell the knives to law enforcement officers, military personnel and emergency medical technicians;

( Law enforcement officers;

© Military personnel; or

(D) Emergency medical technicians.</st1:State>

<st1:State>© It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the person must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that:

(1) The person's conduct was relative to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament or keepsake, and if the weapon is a type described in subdivisions (a)(1)-(5), that it was in a nonfunctioning condition and could not readily be made operable; or

(2) The possession was brief and occurred as a consequence of having found the weapon or taken it from an aggressor.

(d) (1) An offense under subdivision (a)(1) is a Class B felony.

(2) An offense under subdivisions (a)(2)-(5) is a Class E felony.

(3) An offense under subdivision (a)(6) is a Class C felony.

(4) An offense under subdivisions (a)(7)-(8) is a Class A misdemeanor.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, §§ 2, 11; 2001, ch. 375, §§ 3, 4; 2002, ch. 849, § 5; 2006, ch. 798, § 1.]

</st1:State>

</st1:State>

[Guest crytes]

Do they have a specific definition for switchblade? I'm curios becouse there is a shop in the mall selling what I would call a switchblade but don't think they would if it was illeagal. Could they be refering to just front opening knifes, ittalian stilletos, or just any old folder whith a botton and a spring? If they want to spell things out to that degree they should include standard definitions so that nothing is left to interpitation.

Crytes

[DaveTN]

Do they have a specific definition for switchblade? If they want to spell things out to that degree they should include standard definitions so that nothing is left to interpitation.

Crytes

They do.

14) “Switchblade knife†means any knife that has a blade which opens automatically by:

(A) Hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle; or

( Operation of gravity or inertia

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 1; 2001, ch. 375, §§ 1, 2.]

[Guest GregRN]

Because a chain saw is a tool. A switch blade is a killing instrument. Make sense now?

Yes, but a switchblade is legal carry for an EMT in Tennessee. Then, it is considered a tool.

Besides, we all know that every criminal carries weapons of whatever sort they desire (blades, SBR, street sweepers). It's only us law abiding that care.

[The Rabbi]

Yes, but a switchblade is legal carry for an EMT in Tennessee. Then, it is considered a tool.

Besides, we all know that every criminal carries weapons of whatever sort they desire (blades, SBR, street sweepers). It's only us law abiding that care.

I was kidding. It makes no sense at all. Most gun laws don't.

[Mike.357]

A switch blade is a killing instrument

Why is this any more a killing instrument than any other knife? Why can't a switch blade be used as a box opener?

Typical dumb law I imagine.

[The Rabbi]

Why is this any more a killing instrument than any other knife? Why can't a switch blade be used as a box opener?

And why can't a box opener be used as an offensive weapon? Oh, yeah. It was.

[Cannon Fodder]

.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Cannon Fodder

[saintsfanbrian]

I open my spyderco by inertia too, oh well, I guess since I have probably 5 to 10 knives I am a collector and am okay.

[towerclimber37]

hahahah I don't collect knives..but I DO own a Kershaw, Leeks assisted open knife..I guess its about as close to a switchblade as you can get...

If owning that tool automatically makes me a criminal, then you boys might need to get a posse formed, because I carry it with me everywhere!!!

never leave home without 3 things, a flashlight, a way to make fire, and a cutting tool.