National healthcare moves forward. Three cheers for more govt continue.

[Guest grimel]

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being

Grimel my lad, thanks for providing more evidence for my case. "...provide for the common defense and general WELFARE (see your definition above) of the United States." Now I can see how your mind works....your reply will no doubt contend that it mentions nothing about the PEOPLE of the United States.

What part of "Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution." do you fail to understand?

Like I said..."Screw the Poor"--the conservative mantra. The poor aren't heavily taxed so the amount of $$ they'd have available would be negligable.

That's a pretty good solution to poverty though....let 'em starve and die--problem solved. Praise the Lord.

Again, you have zero grasp of the obvious. It isn't the federal government's JOB to take care of the poor. Starting SS was one of FDR's many idiotic ideas.

The conservatives, BTW, give at least one order of magnitude more to charity than the liberals (people like you who think it's a great idea to support the poor/sick as long as it's done with someone else's money).

<< Finally, getting the fed out of healthcare and letting free market economics rule would result in huge cost savings for health care. As in the $100k in my savings account would cover the $75k heart transplant.>>

That's a novel take....the problem with healthcare is too much regulation?

That's really out there. Too much regulation is why they're able to increase premiums 20%+ a year, exclude pre-existing conditions, and drop you if you get sick?

Do you have any grasp of basic economics? There is way to much regulation in health care. It takes about 2x the actual time required for testing new drugs for them to reach the market.

BTW, you are refering to health INSURANCE, not the same thing, but, it is an even bigger victim of over regulation.

It is absurd for me to have to pay for OB/GYN care in my health insurance. It is even more absurd that I can't buy health insurance from Ga if I choose.

<<You really don't understand the written language do you?>>

This from the guy who doesn't know what "promote the general welfare" means! HA.

From the guy who showed you the definition of welfare as used in the US Constituion, so, HA back at you.

<<The Bible (see Christian nation references) at no point asks, requests, suggests in any manner the government does anything to help the sick and poor. It states YOU (and your fellow Christians) aid the poor/sick. >>

The bible does say "render unto Caesar"....in other words, pay your damned taxes and don't bitch about it! Maybe Caeser will help the sick and poor....

But, you are the one claiming it is the governments job to do so as a Christian nation. To follow on your semi-quote (the full quote being "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."), money taken from me to fund national health care isn't Caeser's (government) because, per the US Constitution (our governing document) health care isn't the job of the US government, so I can b!tch about the misuse of MY money.

<<Since you state you give to charities, I'm sure you realize the private charities in this country feed/cloth/house more people per dollar spent than the Fed by an obscene margine.>>

Care to cite a reputable source for this factoid. The fact remains, without government assistance some people would starve, and not all of them deserve to.

Pick your charity, look up the pass through rate (even the way over spending United Way is over 50% of each dollar getting to the designated job). Look at the GAO for how much the fed uses to adminster it's charity work vs how much gets to those needing the charity (if we were to take out those who don't need the $$ it would be even worse).

<< Imagine how much more people could give (contrary to popular belief the big producers are the big givers to charity) to charity AND grow the country's economy if they weren't being exessivley taxed to provide a grossly inefficient Fed goverenment's welfare plans?>>

We tried that for a long time pre-SS, welfare, Medicare...didn't work too well. Since the Bush tax cuts the big producers have done a wonderful job of growing the economy--of China. Question--what was the top tax rate during the 1950's, the most prosperous decade in our history...when the great American middle-class was created?

Do you get any economic data from a source other than main stream media? BTW, stuff is made in China vs here because it is cheaper (again, over regulation) to make it there and ship it here than make it here.

<<I seem to recall a wise man once saying something along these lines: give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.>>

So you favor government subsidies for college education? .

Nope, but, it would be a better mis-use of my money than welfare. BTW, I (that's me personally) do teach people to fish (and usually give them fish while teaching them).

<<AGAIN, you fail to grasp basic concepts. YOU want the government to take MY money to pay for some charity work YOU want done.>>

I think you should be allowed to keep every cent you make that wasn't facilitated by the government through the defense of the nation, the interstate highway system, public education, regulation of commerce, food and drugs, law enforcement , and every cent that wasn't spent on you by a welfare recipient, government employee...every cent that wasn't put in the economy through some government action or program. No man is an island my friend.

You do realize the high lighted parts are even more mis-uses of federal government taxation? We have way too many federal employees, actions, and programs that have zero constitutional basis. That money was in my pocket before the government stole it and mis-used it.

<<Work which the fed government has zero Constitutional authority to do. The taxes refered to by the wiser man to which you refer are to cover the essentials of government.>>

...like promoting the general welfare.

Try reading a whole section before mis-using it. general welfare has nada to do with feeding the hungry and health care.

<<Don't need to be a constitutional scholar. All I need is the ability to read and comprehend. The US Constitution is a short document with everything the US Federal government is allowed (and required) to do spelled out.>>

...like "promote the general welfare."

Yes, that is part of the Fed gov's job. Too bad you don't understand what the phrase means.

<<No Mother Teresa gave aid and comfort to the poor. She didn't help them become not poor. That's a "slight" difference.>>

True. So how do you help them become not poor?

You mean other than teaching them a skill while employing them? You mean other than showing them how to wisely manage their money so they can live better than their parents?

<<As for Any Rand, we as a country would be much better off following her ideas than the current slide into following Karl Marx.>>

What about her militant atheism? Conservatives never mention that.

You apparently didn't see Rand disciple Alan Greenspan's testimony before congress last October in which he admitted her ideas had failed and helped produce the economic collapse.

Atheism has nada to do with her economic ideas.

Greenspan is no more a Rand disciple than you are. THIS economic "collapse" is directly attributable to the Dems and failed Dem policy combined with a (mostly) spineless GOP turning Dem Lite.

[Guest grimel]

I pay into SS, there damn well better be something there for me when I apply.

There will be nothing there. You better make other plans. If you or I were to try pulling a scam like SSI we would be tossed under the jail for running a Ponzi scheme of Biblical proportions.

[Guest grimel]

Heres a novel idea, why dont we funnel all that money that we send out every year as "foriegn aid", and use it for the "freebie crowd". Then maybe some small companies will be able to keep their doors open, and not be forced to close by a bunch of socialist crap.

Because "foreign aid" doesn't amount to enough cash to cover the mandated annual increase in medicare much less take care of the freebie crowd.

[leroy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.357

I pay into SS, there damn well better be something there for me when I apply.

There will be nothing there. You better make other plans. If you or I were to try pulling a scam like SSI we would be tossed under the jail for running a Ponzi scheme of Biblical proportions.

This is a great truth. You young folks need to look at SS as an add on tax to income; that's what it is. I firmly believe you will never see it to retire on if you are more than twenty years from retirement.

Food for thought.

LEROY

[leroy]

Here's the deal, Ralph, for whatever reason, has chosen to opine his liberal bent on one of the most conservative websites available. He probably goes on the NAACP website and spews racist epithets.

There is a ceratin percentage of our polpulation that enjoy angering the rest of the population. That's how they gain personal fulfillment. Ralph appears to be one of them.

So rather than getting on "The Daily Kos", he came here. And the membership has given him plenty of enjoyment similar to the way serial killers get enjoyment from hearing the cries of little girls.

That being said, the best way to shut this crap up is to ignore it.

A lot of smart and presumably busy people have wasted an inordinate amount of time on him.

Furthermore I would suggest to the moderator to remove him from our roles.

A very valid observation. No amount of truth, logic, or persuasive effort will change the already convinced. It does serve, i believe, to demonstrate what not to believe and what it takes what not to believe it.

Keep up the good work!

Kind regards,

LEROY

EDIT: Receivet this bit of wisdom from one of my friends:

PSALM 2009 - 2012

FIRST BOOK OF DEMOCRAT

OBAMA IS A SHEPHERD,

I SHALL NOT WANT.

HE LEADETH ME BESIDE STILL FACTORIES.

HE RESTORETH MY FAITH IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY .

HE GUIDETH ME IN THE PATH OF UNEMPLOYMENT.

YEA, THOUGH I WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY OF THE BREAD LINE,

I SHALL NOT GO HUNGRY.

OBAMA HAS ANOINTED MY INCOME WITH TAXES,

MY EXPENSES RUNNETH OVER MY INCOME,

SURELY, POVERTY AND HARD LIVING WILL FOLLOW ME

ALL THE DAYS OF MY LIFE.

AND I WILL LIVE FOREVER

IN A RENTED HOME.

BUT I AM GLAD I AM AN AMERICAN,

I AM GLAD THAT I AM FREE.

BUT I WISH I WAS A DOG

AND OBAMA WAS A TREE.

Edited July 20, 2009 by leroy
Valuable observations added!!

[Mike.357]

I firmly believe you will never see it to retire on if you are more than twenty years from retirement.

been hearing that for 25 years

[leroy]

been hearing that for 25 years

Mike:___________

Me too!! I believe it now.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest redbarron06]

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being

This referes to the nation as a whole not for any individual.

Health care is not a right that is in the constitution however, arms are, yet I dont see the federal govt giving me a gun except when I am dischargine my duties in the military.

The bottom line is that the Constitution was deisgned to protect indiviudual rights and personal property and place limits on what the governemtn can do. What greater property do you have than your labor? I have not found anywhere in the Constitution that sais that one person is entitled to the benifits of anothers labor. Maybe you can find that? A doctor, nurse, hospital, drug company is providing labor and they can infact charge compsenation for that labor. When the fed takes it over there will be a limit on the amount they will get paid. That amount will go down and all of a sudden it will stop being cost effective to be a doctor and we will start having a shortge of doctors. Who will the fed pay then to take care of the health care? There are doctors out there now that are working for little or nothing and there are very few of them. There will be even less because with few students it will be more expensive for schools to maintain medical programs and they will begin shutting them down. Why do you think that so many people come here to go to medical school even though we have the most expsnsive schools in the world? Then they stay here and open thier pratice? Right now the benifits of being a doctor out weigh the costs. Once good old uncle sugar takes over that will no longer be the case. Why are so many folks coming here from countries like England, Canada and other socialized healthcare nations to get treatment. Because the program does not work.

I keep hearing folks say "we are the only industrial nation that does not have socialized healthcare" Well that may be true but we are the only nation that has people coming from those other nations to get treatment here. Why is that? It is because of the system we have. Our system is based on going to school and learning the profession then getting out and making a good living for the doctor and thier families. Gov health care will remove the incentive to be a doctor. Yes many of those doctors volunteer thier time. Every doc I have seen at the VA has got an outside pratice and comes in there a couple of days a week but they still have a private pratice so they can pay thier bills.

How much does a copy of Microsoft Office or Microsoft windows cost? Are we entitled to a copy of that too if we own a computer? This is an item that when it hits the market they know it will be obsolete in a couple of years yet they still charge an arm and a leg for it, because people will pay to get it. As long as the govt stays out of health care it will continue to be the same. As much as the liberal, tree hugging, dirt lovers hate to admit it, the way of nature is that the strong survive, the market is no different. Gov taking over removes the checks and balences in the system. It has always been that way. Look at the housing crisis, all because the govt required banks to lower requirements for getting a loan.

When you take the wolf out of the forrest the pray animals over populate, if you remove the pray animals the wolves starve. Both of these processes are things that the gov does not nature.

"Love they neighbor" The bible sais that, the Constitution does not. Dont mix church and state.