Obama Secret gun control?

[catsbackr]

I don't know if this has already been reported, but I received this in an e-mail from a friend:

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:05 AM

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YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE!

WELL, HERE IT COMES!!!!

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN!!!

HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009

Please send this to everybody on your list... this is Obama guncontrol by secrecy.

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.

This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.

We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.

Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because

it is flying under the radar..

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt

Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle

with a clip or ANY pistol unless:

.It is registered

.You are fingerprinted

.You supply a current Driver's License

.You supply your Social Security #

.You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing

.Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25

- Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in

jail.

There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Guns

must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.

The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away

from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this..

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along.

FAILURE TO DO SO AT YOUR PERIL!

Any hunters in your family - pass this along.

Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. in the morning.

He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into

action".

Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting

associations, gun clubs JPFO (JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP) and especially the

GOA and NRA..

This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to

the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished

before anyone realizes it.

YOU MAY NOT OWN OR EVEN LIKE GUNS, but if you LOVE FREEDOM, YOU better get involved NOW!!!

TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OPTION.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.

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Just an FYI, I guess.

[Guest bkelm18]

This has been discussed numerous times. It hasn't moved since it was introduced almost 6 months ago. It's DOA.

[Garufa]

Thanks, but sorry, this has been well discussed hereabouts.

[poak]

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Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle

with a clip or ANY pistol unless:

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Phew, that was a close one... I'm glad all of mine eat out of magazines!

[Guest jimdigriz]

Don't we have gun registration already? The background check form lists the firearm(s) you are buying, if I remember correctly. (The dealer always fills out that part of the form). You think the Feds discard that information? I rather doubt it.

[Guest bkelm18]

Don't we have gun registration already? The background check form lists the firearm(s) you are buying, if I remember correctly. (The dealer always fills out that part of the form). You think the Feds discard that information? I rather doubt it.

Please...

[Guest jimdigriz]

Please...

I'm sorry, what is your specific objection to what I wrote? That the form lists the firearm being purchased, or that the Feds retain it?

Jim

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm sorry, what is your specific objection to what I wrote? That the form lists the firearm being purchased, or that the Feds retain it?

Jim

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think gets sent to the "feds"?

[Garufa]

Please...

Check this...http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/23790-batfe-checking-gun-owners-border-states.html

[Guest bkelm18]

Check this...http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/23790-batfe-checking-gun-owners-border-states.html

That's completely different than what jimdigriz was speaking of.

[Garufa]

That's completely different than what jimdigriz was speaking of.

How so? ATF agents are investigating based on records in their possesion, right?

If I'm wrong please let me know because I do not believe in all this "our guns are not registered business". They are not by law but technically there is a record, i.e. database that is traceable.

There are a bunch of federal forms with my name and serial numbers on them, so I accept that fact.

[Guest jimdigriz]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think gets sent to the "feds"?

OK, I went and googled what I was looking for. I was conflating into one thing what is really two, but both constitute a soft (but real) form of gun registration.

1) National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Federal Bureau of Investigation - NICS Index

The firearm being purchased is not disclosed in the check, but the name and identifying information certainly is! So, assuming the Feds do not discard this information, they would know where to go to confiscate arms.

2) Form 4473

Form 4473 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This contains the specific information of the firearm being purchased. The dealers do not send this to the Feds, but they must retain a copy for 20 years. And:

"The dealer also records all information from the Form 4473 into their "bound-book". A dealer must keep this log the entire time they are in business and is required to surrender the log to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) upon retirement from the firearms business. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five day period must be reported to ATF on Form 3310.4."

The Feds know right where to go to obtain the information they need to execute a mostly effective confiscation program.

Jim

[Mike.357]

i really think that not believing we have defacto gun registration as being naive.

I fill out a 4473 and that paper does not just up and dissapear. Even in the movie Wolverines the commies knew to go to the sporting goods store and get those forms.

if the man wants to know what guns were bought from retailers by which people they can get a fair start by laying eyes on those forms.

And that is why I am a big fan of using the gun show loophole before it is closed.

[TripleDigitRide]

The fact that Metro Police were able to locate the original owner of the gun used to kill McNair only proves that guns are in fact registered in one form or another.

[Garufa]

The fact that Metro Police were able to locate the original owner of the gun used to kill McNair only proves that guns are in fact registered in one form or another.

Have not heard that. Only that a 20 year-old bought a handgun somewhere. That's illegal.

[DavidCBaker]

Have not heard that. Only that a 20 year-old bought a handgun somewhere. That's illegal.

Not if he bought it from an individual.

Haven't we gone over this?

[TripleDigitRide]

Have not heard that. Only that a 20 year-old bought a handgun somewhere. That's illegal.

Yep. During one of the press conferences Chief Serpas and/or Don Aaron reported that they were able to locate the original purchaser of the firearm, then track it from there.

[Guest jimdigriz]

I fill out a 4473 and that paper does not just up and dissapear. Even in the movie Wolverines the commies knew to go to the sporting goods store and get those forms.

And don't forget that dealers who goes out of business have to turn over all their forms to the Bureau of Second Amendment Violations.

[Guest justme]

Don't we have gun registration already? The background check form lists the firearm(s) you are buying, if I remember correctly. (The dealer always fills out that part of the form). You think the Feds discard that information? I rather doubt it.

they have no idea whether because of tough economic times you were forced to sell the handgun or long gun that you bought last year....you are not required to keep information regarding it's sale, you are not required to report it as sold...

I keep hearing that TN has gun registration--they don't.

[Guest justme]

i really think that not believing we have defacto gun registration as being naive.

in a way maybe--but again, they have no idea who you sell to, or why you sold--you are not required to keep any information on the sale if you don't want to. Smart thing to do? Maybe, but not required.

I fill out a 4473 and that paper does not just up and dissapear. Even in the movie Wolverines the commies knew to go to the sporting goods store and get those forms.

Addresses change, people move and leave no forwarding address. Can they be found? Maybe--but the person who does not want to be found isn't going to be.

if the man wants to know what guns were bought from retailers by which people they can get a fair start by laying eyes on those forms.

that is why I would never buy a gun from a major retailer--they are more than willing to just let the feds look at anything they want.

And that is why I am a big fan of using the gun show loophole before it is closed.

Agree 100%

[Guest canynracer]

registration is entirely different guys...you are talking about a paper trail...registration means that once you purchase, you have to get it registered...then, if you sell it, you have to TRANSFER the registration to the new buyer, the gun is tracked throughout each individual.

we dont register guns, but there is a paper trail that will lead to me that says I boutght my M&P from a dealer...what I did with that M&P after that, has no trail.

[Guest jimdigriz]

registration is entirely different guys...you are talking about a paper trail...registration means that once you purchase, you have to get it registered...then, if you sell it, you have to TRANSFER the registration to the new buyer, the gun is tracked throughout each individual.

we dont register guns, but there is a paper trail that will lead to me that says I boutght my M&P from a dealer...what I did with that M&P after that, has no trail.

I'm having a hard time seeing a useful distinction. The government still has a means of quickly confiscating 70-80% of the firearms in the country, if they choose to do so.

[DavidD]

I'm having a hard time seeing a useful distinction. The government still has a means of quickly confiscating 70-80% of the firearms in the country, if they choose to do so.

I understand where you are coming from however I believe Canyn is right on. This is nothing like registration. In states that have registration, all one would have to do is "run your name" to find out you own a gun. Here in the great state of TN, I do not believe that is possible. One would have to trace the gun back to an individual, not the other way around. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong......

[Guest jimdigriz]

I understand where you are coming from however I believe Canyn is right on. This is nothing like registration. In states that have registration, all one would have to do is "run your name" to find out you own a gun. Here in the great state of TN, I do not believe that is possible. One would have to trace the gun back to an individual, not the other way around. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong......

Well, I did call it a "soft form of registration" earlier in the thread. But the fact remains that the mechanism is already in place which allows the government to connect names to specific guns, and thus, potentially, confiscate those guns. It seems unlikely politically, but never underestimate what the government might do in the name of an "emergency".

As far as "running your name", when the officer runs my DL at a traffic stop, will he be able to see if I have an HCP?

Jim

[DavidD]

As far as "running your name", when the officer runs my DL at a traffic stop, will he be able to see if I have an HCP?

Jim

Yes, he will. However he will not know what kind or how many guns you own