Legislators say Kazemi should not have been able to buy a gun

[DaveTN]

I expect to find a big thread about this, but I don’t see anything….

I heard this on the way to work this morning.

McNair's Murder Prompts Look At Gun Laws - NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee -

McNair's Murder Prompts Look At Gun Laws

Posted: July 7, 2009 08:53 PM CDT

Lawmakers are thinking about possibly pushing for new gun legislation in Tennessee after the recent murder of Steve McNair and death of Sahel Kazemi.

Police revealed Monday that McNair's 20-year-old girlfriend, Kazemi, was able to purchase a firearm from an undisclosed private source. For some lawmakers it raised questions about the ease of purchasing guns.

"You should not just be able to walk up and down the street and buy a gun," said Sen. Thelma Harper.

While family and friends mourn police are still trying to determine whether or not Kazemi pulled the trigger, killing McNair.

Investigators said Kazemi bought the gun found at the murder scene just two days before the shooting of her and McNair in his Nashville condominium.

"He is in the hand of a just God, a merciful God," said Harper.

Harper wondered if the outcome would have been different had stricter laws been in place, but some feel Kazemi's decision to buy a gun was a legal one.

"It's not illegal to do, it's just the way the law is written," said James Cavanaugh of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).

In Tennessee there is little regulation surrounding the private sale of guns, but age requirements and background checks are required in order to purchase a gun from a firearms dealer.

"A 20-year-old cannot make that purchase from a gun shop. They would be stopped by the gun dealer," said Cavanaugh.

Concerns around the private sales of firearms are still being voiced.

Harper said she would back future legislation that calls for not only tracking private gun sales but for minimum age requirements, as well.

"If you are a private individual selling a gun, in some way it has to be registered, with someone, so you can keep track of it," said Harper.

Others are skeptical about the new proposal of further gun legislation.

"Here we have one incident that is getting a lot of publicity, and is that a reason just to go out and change the law, just because of that once incident?" said Rep. Debra Maggart.

Maggart said the regulation of every gun sale could be extremely costly for the state and was a scenario unlikely to happen during these times of financial strain. She agreed the state should reassess the minimum age requirements.

"I do think we should take a look at that, but again, you have to be careful about what they call the slippery slope, and how we open a door about regulating these private gun sales," said Maggart.

Several lawmakers have privately stated they would be in favor of new gun laws. Congress will be back session in January.

[Fallguy]

Lots of good talk...but I don't think it'll go anywhere.

One good thing about the legislature being adjourned. By the time they come back in Jan maybe this will have died down.

[Guest HexHead]

Thelma Harper is an asswipe, as evidenced by this....

Harper said she would back future legislation that calls for not only tracking private gun sales but for minimum age requirements, as well.

"If you are a private individual selling a gun, in some way it has to be registered, with someone, so you can keep track of it," said Harper.

Of course she's going to say that. Another Senator, the lady from Hendersonville said it better, this was ONE incident getting a lot of press, but not worth changing the law over.

The article is wrong, it says "lawmakers", but Harper is the only one calling for this.

Edited July 8, 2009 by HexHead

[Daps]

I'd never sell to an individual I didn't know real well personally....

When I heard her age I expected to see threads here also and expected some lawmaker to say something

OT

Lesson learn leave those crazy young girls alone, heck old ones too.

I'm 35 and had a 19 yo wanted to go out. She was like I'm legal. Tempting as it is, we wouldn't have anything in common and I'd be wasting my time. In this odd twisted world I could be her daddy:tinfoil: Ask me when I hit 60 I may have a different answer

[Guest HexHead]

I'd never sell to an individual I didn't know real well personally....

When I heard her age I expected to see threads here also and expected some lawmaker to say something

OT

Lesson learn leave those crazy young girls alone, heck old ones too.

I'm 35 and had a 19 yo wanted to go out. She was like I'm legal. Tempting as it is, we wouldn't have anything in common and I'd be wasting my time. In this odd twisted world I could be her daddy:tinfoil: Ask me when I hit 60 I may have a different answer

I've sold to individuals I ran into at gunshows, and bought from there as well. Ask if they can legally buy a firearm, see that their driver's license is from TN and we're good to go.

And I'm sure you and the 19 yr old could have found something you have in common.

[Falcon1]

I am not trying to judge Mr. McNair or Ms. Kazemi; I have no right to do so. What happened between them is their business, not mine. But Senator Harper has predictably "chased the hearse" with more of her gun-control politics ("Never let a crisis go to waste"); so, at the risk of being flamed:

Would it be indelicate to ask Senator Harper if she intends to file legislation to make adultery illegal...make fornication illegal...make the involvement of a thirty-six-year-old adult male with the emotions of a twenty-year-old girl illegal (yes, I know she was legally an adult, and I also know that sixteen years is a heckuvalot more difference at 20 and 36 than it is at 25 and 41 or 30 and 46*)? These might rationally be considered to be more proximate causes of this tragic situation than the ability to purchase a firearm.

Just asking....

* In the 1980s, research showed that an enzyme begins being produced in the human brain at about the age of twenty-five in most persons which substantially altered their thinking into a more "adult" thought pattern. The researchers informally called it the "wisdom" enzyme. Perhaps this is what Mark Twain meant when he spoke words to the effect: "When I was seventeen, I was convinced my father was the biggest idiot on the planet. By the time I was twenty-five, I was amazed at how much the Old Man had learned in eight years."

Edited July 8, 2009 by Falcon1

[Daps]

I've sold to individuals I ran into at gunshows, and bought from there as well. Ask if they can legally buy a firearm, see that their driver's license is from TN and we're good to go.

And I'm sure you and the 19 yr old could have found something you have in common.

It's just something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing, well at least not without running a background check.

hehe yeah I'm sure but I've already had one looney...not kill you looney but why risk it LOL

[Falcon1]

I am not trying to judge Mr. McNair or Ms. Kazemi; I have no right to do so. What happened between them is their business, not mine. But Senator Harper has predictably "chased the hearse" with more of her gun-control politics ("Never let a crisis go to waste."); so, at the risk of being flamed:

Would it be indelicate to ask Senator Harper if she intends to file legislation to make adultery illegal...make fornication illegal...make a thirty-six-year-old adult male involved with the emotions of a twenty-year-old girl illegal (yes, I know she was legally an adult, and I also know that sixteen years is a heckuvalot more difference at 20 and 36 than it is at 25 and 41 or 30 and 46*)? These might rationally be considered to be more proximate causes of this tragic situation than the ability to purchase a firearm.

Just asking....

* In the 1980s, research showed that an enzyme begins being produced in the human brain at about the age of twenty-five in most persons which substantially altered their thinking into a more "adult" thought pattern. The researchers informally called it the "wisdom" enzyme. Perhaps this is what Mark Twain meant when he spoke words to the effect: "When I was seventeen, I was convinced my father was the biggest idiot on the planet. By the time I was twenty-five, I was amazed at how much the Old Man had learned in eight years."

[Guest m&pc9]

Am I seeing double.

[Guest SUNTZU]

How about Kazemi's parents teaching her that murder is freaking wrong. There oughtta be a law!!one!eleventy!!

[macville]

Are they sure the gun was even a "legal" gun? AKA, was it bought from some gangster on the street, or was it from someone who had legally bought it and could even legally own a gun? I wouldn't be surprised if everything about the gun was illegal. Which would be another example of how LAWS ONLY WORK IF SOMEONE OBEYS THEM!

Matthew

[Guest MCRAIG]

I believe we are overlooking an important piece of information. Did she pull the trigger or did a professional hitman or columbian drug lord pull the trigger and make it look like a murder suicide. Odds are he was in drugs since him and Jamal Lewis were pretty tight in Baltimore and he was convicted of partaking in drug affairs. Sounds like a drug deal gone bad with an awesome cover up to me.

[Fallguy]

Are they sure the gun was even a "legal" gun? AKA, was it bought from some gangster on the street, or was it from someone who had legally bought it and could even legally own a gun? I wouldn't be surprised if everything about the gun was illegal. Which would be another example of how LAWS ONLY WORK IF SOMEONE OBEYS THEM!

Matthew

Think they've already said the sale was legal.

Supposed to have bought it from the same person she bought the Escelade from.

[DavidCBaker]

I believe we are overlooking an important piece of information. Did she pull the trigger or did a professional hitman or columbian drug lord pull the trigger and make it look like a murder suicide. Odds are he was in drugs since him and Jamal Lewis were pretty tight in Baltimore and he was convicted of partaking in drug affairs. Sounds like a drug deal gone bad with an awesome cover up to me.

I sure am glad you're not employed by the judicial branch of government.

[gregintenn]

Think they've already said the sale was legal.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to purchase or possess a handgun if you are under 21.

[Fallguy]

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to purchase or possess a handgun if you are under 21.

....and you'd be wrong. That has been widely discussed in another thread.

A licensed dealer can not sell one to anyone under 21, but it is legal in a private transaction. That is the whole purpose of this thread....a lawmaker wants to make it illegal. Read the first post where the ATF agent said it is legal.

As far as possesing one....my 13 year old son can possed a handgun on my property with my permission.

In some states 16 year olds can legaly open carry a handgun in public without a permit.

[Rightwinger]

Nope, only through a FFL. Friend to friend to anyone over 18 in Tennessee is legal.

Fallguy in before me. Gotta be fast around these parts.

[Fallguy]

I sure am glad you're not employed by the judicial branch of government.

+1

[Guest MCRAIG]

I sure am glad you're not employed by the judicial branch of government.

Innocent until proven guilty, but I believe they should be looking at different angles just in case the obvious motive isn't correct.

[jay1313g]

If the young lady had planned the ILLEGAL act of murder do they really think the ILLEGAL purchase of a firearm would have stopped her?

My point being that she would have found a way to get a gun if she really wanted one.

[Fallguy]

If the young lady had planned the ILLEGAL act of murder do they really think the ILLEGAL purchase of a firearm would have stopped her?

My point being that she would have found a way to get a gun if she really wanted one.

Exactly.....

[macville]

....and you'd be wrong. That has been widely discussed in another thread.

A licensed dealer can not sell one to anyone under 21, but it is legal in a private transaction. That is the whole purpose of this thread....a lawmaker wants to make it illegal. Read the first post where the ATF agent said it is legal.

As far as possesing one....my 13 year old son can possed a handgun on my property with my permission.

In some states 16 year olds can legaly open carry a handgun in public without a permit.

Interesting... I thought you had to be with someone who is 21 to be able to posses a handgun. Seems strange that you can legally buy a handgun from a private citizen if you are over 18 but under 21, but you can't buy one from a FFL. Maybe we SHOULD change the law....to allow anyone 18+ be able to buy a handgun from a dealer or a private citizen!

The thing is, even if she couldn't buy a handgun at a FFL, she could have still bought a rifle! Considering how she shot him (he was asleep on the couch), either one would do the job the same. It wasn't like she was trying to hide the firearm long enough to get close to shoot him.

Matthew

[JayC]

Thelma Harper is an asswipe, as evidenced by this....

Of course she's going to say that. Another Senator, the lady from Hendersonville said it better, this was ONE incident getting a lot of press, but not worth changing the law over.

The article is wrong, it says "lawmakers", but Harper is the only one calling for this.

+1

Also, keep in mind 2010 is an election year, who in their right mind is going to support any form of gun registration next year? Talk about upsetting some voters... No way you get NRA approval voting for that bill.

[Falcon1]

Interesting... I thought you had to be with someone who is 21 to be able to posses a handgun. Seems strange that you can legally buy a handgun from a private citizen if you are over 18 but under 21, but you can't buy one from a FFL. Maybe we SHOULD change the law....to allow anyone 18+ be able to buy a handgun from a dealer or a private citizen!

The thing is, even if she couldn't buy a handgun at a FFL, she could have still bought a rifle! Considering how she shot him (he was asleep on the couch), either one would do the job the same. It wasn't like she was trying to hide the firearm long enough to get close to shoot him.

Matthew

Interesting, but true. Federal law (national and state combined) says you must be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer, but state law says you cannot sell a handgun, FFL or private, to a minor (18). As Fallguy has noted, someone younger can possess a handgun with appropriate (i.e., adult) supervision.

As I said on another forum, Samson had his hair cut while he was asleep...it could just as have easily been his throat.

[Guest Ravendove]

"Harper wondered if the outcome would have been different had stricter laws been in place"

Well I wonder if the outcome would have been different if he hadn't been cheating on his wife.