HEARING ON GUNS IN RESTAURANTS JULY 13TH!

[eapking]

Will be stuck here in Memphis, but would if I could. Take care. Don't give the "anti's" any ammo (no pun intended). Godspeed to each of you attending.

[dralarms]

Son has a drs. appt that day, can't make it but will be there in spirit

[Fallguy]

I'll be there....

[Guest 44M]

I have to work so I can`t go but I don`t understand what is the problem...? if this moron doesn`t wont gun in his bar, only thing he needs to do is to post the sign.... right? so, whats all that circus about?

Db

[USMCJG]

Nikki, great post. Don't forget to mention that statistically law enforcement officers are 5.5 times more likely to kill an innocent bystander than HCP/CCP holders nationwide.

[cybernorris]

6. Guns aren't allowed in Legislative Plaza, yet they're perfectly happy with folks carrying them into bars... the hypocrisy of their workplace vs. ours!

Completely off topic ... and I am NOT suggesting anything, but...

I wonder if lawmakers would vote any differently if guns were allowed in Legislative Plaza...?

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Fallguy]

Completely off topic ... and I am NOT suggesting anything, but...

I wonder if lawmakers would vote any differently if guns were allowed in Legislative Plaza...?

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Not to side track any further, but there have been bills to allow handguns in Legislative Plaza. The group that looks at bills and comes up with a fiscal note said additional security would havd to be added and so on and so on added such a fiscal note to the bill that it didn't move. So the key would be for the bill to specifically say something about no aditional troopers being hired just because of it.

[TGO David]

Nikki, great post. Don't forget to mention that statistically law enforcement officers are 5.5 times more likely to kill an innocent bystander than HCP/CCP holders nationwide.

I'm not sure where that stat came from, but to be fair I'm sure the reason any such statistic might be true is because police officers are far more likely to be involved in an active-shooter situation than HCP/CCP holders are. The more incidents of fire, the more likely something might go wrong.

[Falcon1]

Nikki, great post. Don't forget to mention that statistically law enforcement officers are 5.5 times more likely to kill an innocent bystander than HCP/CCP holders nationwide.

I'm not sure where that stat came from, but to be fair I'm sure the reason any such statistic might be true is because police officers are far more likely to be involved in an active-shooter situation than HCP/CCP holders are. The more incidents of fire, the more likely something might go wrong.

Another factor in this may be something that Jeffrey Snyder mentioned years ago in his article "A Nation of Cowards." When a man comes up to a woman, pulls a knife, and says, "You're coming with me," her judgment that a crime is being committed is not likely to be in error. Law enforcement must roll up onto the scene either after the crime has been committed or is in the process of being committed, when the criminal-victim determination is not so clear-cut.

[USMCJG]

I'm not sure where that stat came from, but to be fair I'm sure the reason any such statistic might be true is because police officers are far more likely to be involved in an active-shooter situation than HCP/CCP holders are. The more incidents of fire, the more likely something might go wrong.

Sorry. I misquoted. This was a study done from newspaper reports in Missouri, not nationwide.-

"Another study examined newspaper reports of gun incidents in Missouri, involving police or civilians. In this study, civilians were successful in wounding, driving off, capturing criminals 83% of the time, compared with a 68% success rate for the police. Civilians intervening in crime were slightly less likely to be wounded than were police. Only 2% of shootings by civilians, but 11% of shootings by police, involved an innocent person mistakenly thought to be a criminal."

As noted, police in Missouri are 5.5 times more likely to shoot the wrong person. This is at least in part due to the fact that police MUST intervene during the commission of a crime, whereas a private citizen can choose to intervene or not. I'm not trying to badmouth the police, just noting that permit holders are not necessarily inherently more dangerous to the public at large. I honestly don't know how police officers deal with some of the things that they have to deal with. I simply don't have the disposition for it, but I admire those that do.

Nikki and anyone else who may be attending the meeting, here are a few statistics that may help your arguments. They can be found here- "Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws Complete with references.

"The most detailed information about civilian defensive gun use has been compiled by Professor Gary Kleck (a liberal Democrat, and member of the ACLU and Common Cause) in his book Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. In 1992 the American Society of Criminology awarded the book the Hindelang Prize, as the most significant contribution to criminology in the previous three years. In Point Blank, Kleck studied computer tapes from the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Survey, for the years 1979-85. Analyzing the data from over 180,000 crime incidents in the National Crime Survey, as well from other studies, Kleck found the following:

- In no more than 1% of defensive gun uses was the gun taken away by a criminal.

- The odds of a defensive gun user accidentally killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000"

These are just a couple of examples that directly refute a couple of their claims. Many other statistics can be found at the site above. Granted the data studied for this particular example was compiled before the widespread issuance of carry permits, but the results are still valid. Best of all, this study was done by one of "them".

Cliff

[Fallguy]

So is meeting up before hand still on?

Time/Location?

[Guest HexHead]

Nikki and anyone else who may be attending the meeting, here are a few statistics that may help your arguments. They can be found here- "Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws Complete with references.

"The most detailed information about civilian defensive gun use has been compiled by Professor Gary Kleck (a liberal Democrat, and member of the ACLU and Common Cause) in his book Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. In 1992 the American Society of Criminology awarded the book the Hindelang Prize, as the most significant contribution to criminology in the previous three years. In Point Blank, Kleck studied computer tapes from the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Survey, for the years 1979-85. Analyzing the data from over 180,000 crime incidents in the National Crime Survey, as well from other studies, Kleck found the following:

- In no more than 1% of defensive gun uses was the gun taken away by a criminal.

- The odds of a defensive gun user accidentally killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000"

These are just a couple of examples that directly refute a couple of their claims. Many other statistics can be found at the site above. Granted the data studied for this particular example was compiled before the widespread issuance of carry permits, but the results are still valid. Best of all, this study was done by one of "them".

Cliff

What argument? Observers in the courtroom will be just that. Seen and not heard. The judge isn't going to let Nikki or anyone else speak, other than the attorneys.

[Fallguy]

What argument? Observers in the courtroom will be just that. Seen and not heard. The judge isn't going to let Nikki or anyone else speak, other than the attorneys.

I think the talking points were for if you were talked to by the media or someone with an opposing view point while outside the court.

[USMCJG]

What argument? Observers in the courtroom will be just that. Seen and not heard. The judge isn't going to let Nikki or anyone else speak, other than the attorneys.

Oops, my bad. I should have read it more closely. I saw the word hearing and just assumed that people could be heard.

[Daniel]

I'll be there. I should be off of work at noon.

[Guest archerdr1]

wish I could go, but it takes a lot of gas to get to Nashville from here in my truck...and a lot of Gas means a WHOLE lot of Money! Besides, I will be sleeping (just started a second job working third shift...sucks, but it would be really dangerous to drive there when I am not at all rested!

[Guest HexHead]

I think the talking points were for if you were talked to by the media or someone with an opposing view point while outside the court.

HAHAHAHAHA, that's a good one. Like the media here is going to show anyone making intelligent arguments in favor of the law?

[Magiccarpetrides]

Alright people suck it up and get there...todays the day!

[Fallguy]

HAHAHAHAHA, that's a good one. Like the media here is going to show anyone making intelligent arguments in favor of the law?

LOL...point taken.

[TGO David]

I'm still planning on being there. I have a meeting at 10:00 that should be done by 11:30. Provided that is the case, I intend to arrive at around 12:00 and will very likely be wearing my black TGO polo and khakis.

[dunndw]

Giver 'em (polite) hell boys. I'm afraid that my current attitude when it comes to Dread and his cronies would:

1. look bad on the local news.

2. get my butt tossed in jail

3. would not help the cause

therefore I won't be attending. I'm through with all this BS playing nice crap with these socialists. I will tell them exactly what I think of them when confronted. I have Z E R O patience left for these idiots.

[Daniel]

Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter

Ill be wearing that plus khaki pants. Id post the pic directly but I cant see that site from work.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Daniel

[TGO David]

TGO people, what say we meet up somewhere near the entrance to the courthouse proper... out on the sidewalk or something? Barring rain, in which case I'm going to suggest the lobby.

[Fallguy]

TGO people, what say we meet up somewhere near the entrance to the courthouse proper... out on the sidewalk or something? Barring rain, in which case I'm going to suggest the lobby.

I'll see ya there....

[mcurrier]

well...it's 2:15pm...

what's the story?