HEARING ON GUNS IN RESTAURANTS JULY 13TH!

[ngoeser59]

TGO MEMBERS IT IS TIME TO ORGANIZE AND REPRESENT US AS A MINORITY AND SUPPORT OUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS! WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE TGO MEMBERS AT THIS HEARING!!!!!!

Davidson County Lawsuit - Guns in Restaurants

Hearing - Monday, July 13, 2009, Davidson County Chancery (Bonnyman), 1:00 p.m.

The opposition is moving forward and trying to use the July 13, 2009, court hearing date before Davidson County Chanceller Bonnyman as an "assembly date" perhaps in the thought that this would somehow influence the Chancellor. Its seems that they also want to vote more liberals into the General Assembly who sadly disregard the concept of the Constitution.

This is a news release picked up off of a Nashville "liberal" list server:

Please come and be a silent witness to a very important judicial hearing in Nashville . Restauranteur Randy Rayburn and others have challenged the recently passed law that will allow the nearly 250,000 (yes, one quarter million) people in Tennessee who hold a gun carrier's permit - to bring those

LOADED

weapons into restaurants and bars that serve alcohol. Their lawsuit is being heard on:

Monday July 13, 1:30 p.m. in Chancellor Claudia Bonnyman's Courtroom.

Ms. Bonnyman will hear the case in Courtroom One, which is on the fourth floor of the newly restored Metro Courthouse - 1 Public Square, Nashville, TN 37201. (Parking is available under the building - enter from James Robertson Parkway , just prior to crossing the bridge.)

Unless Chancellor Bonnyman rules otherwise, (and that ruling would probably only affect Davidson County ) the guns-in-bars law is set to take effect on July 14th.

Tennessee Attorney General Robert Cooper, who by law and custom is the General Assembly's first line of defense against any challenges to its official actions, has intervened at the eleventh hour and ordered a delay in the hearing which had been set for this week.

Let us try to make a pitcher of lemonade from this sour twist. Instead of having just four days to round up some friends and show up in court, we now have ten days. Even if you can't be there yourself, you can try to send at least a couple of people in your place. If each of us took responsibility for getting two people there, we could collectively account for over 200 silent witnesses giving moral support to Randy and his team.

One of the essential things to remember about our imperfectly constructed national enterprise (the 223rd birthday of which we are observing this weekend) is that in a democracy, you get the government you deserve. Here, in the absence of sufficient opposition, the two political parties and the gun lobby have made some bad choices in our names. If we don't challenge them now—and, starting in November 2010,

vote the rascals out

—we will have more bad laws and the people who passed them, taking us right on down the road to ruin. And we will have ourselves to blame.

Please show up on Monday the 13th, or send others in your stead. I'll see you in court!

John Egerton

P.S. Here is a new twist to the lawsuit.

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=92511&catid=2

Edited July 8, 2009 by ngoeser59

[Motasyco]

I notice this says the ruling would probably only affect Davidson County. That's the first I'd heard that. I thought this would impact the entire state. Opinions?

[G27]

I notice this says the ruling would probably only affect Davidson County. That's the first I'd heard that. I thought this would impact the entire state. Opinions?

Why would Davidson County Chanceller Bonnyman have jurisdiction outside Davidson County?

[Oh Shoot]

...One of the essential things to remember about our imperfectly constructed national enterprise (the 223rd birthday of which we are observing this weekend)...

Do we not reckon our founding date as 1776?

- OS

[ngoeser59]

That was taken from some liberal site. Figures.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I suggest all you Davidson County 2a supporters attend if possible.

[Daniel]

I will try and be there. I work in davidson.

[Guest logicprevails]

Hmmmm. Chancellor Bonnyman's hubby is exec director of the Tennessee Justice Center whose mission statement is:

'The Tennessee Justice Center is a non-profit, public interest law and advocacy firm serving the poor. We give priority to policy issues and civil cases in which the most basic necessities of life are at stake, and where our advocacy can benefit families statewide. We work to empower our clients - who drive our work - by holding government accountable for its policies and actions.'

[Guest ScottD]

Hmmmm. Chancellor Bonnyman's hubby is exec director of the Tennessee Justice Center whose mission statement is:

'The Tennessee Justice Center is a non-profit, public interest law and advocacy firm serving the poor. We give priority to policy issues and civil cases in which the most basic necessities of life are at stake, and where our advocacy can benefit families statewide. We work to empower our clients - who drive our work - by holding government accountable for its policies and actions.'

Sounds like conflict of interest. Me thinks Bonnyman is not qualified to make a ruling on this.

[Volzfan]

Sounds like conflict of interest. Me thinks Bonnyman is not qualified to make a ruling on this.

Definite conflict of interest in my mind!

[Motasyco]

Is this the Adam Dread thing or is this something different. I'm so confused.

[Guest ScottD]

Ya, I believe this is dread and rayburn.

Correction.

It's douchbag1 and douchebag2.

[wjh2657]

Just another reason for this ridge boy to drive up to Bowling Green to trade instead of going down to Nashville.

[Guest slothful1]

If both supporters and opponents are supposed to just show up and simply be "silent", I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to understand which side you're there to support.

[ngoeser59]

HERE ARE "TALKING POINTS" THAT THOSE WHO HAVE FILED THIS LAWSUIT WILL BE TRYING TO MAKE TO THE COURT AND MEDIA. START THINKING OF HOW YOU WISH TO RESPOND IF ASKED BY A REPORTER.

MAKE YOUR POINT! You'll find talking points below for debating the issue elsewhere and convincing your friends to join.

1. Bars can often be sites of confrontation. The last thing we need in them is ready access to firearms.

2. When firearms are allowed on bar premises, bars' and restaurants' liability insurance skyrockets, leading to higher prices for food and beverages.

3. Servers don't need to be in the position of patting down customers, or asking them if they have a permit for their weapon. They aren't policemen.

4. According to the law, people carrying guns can't drink in the bar, which means they're taking up a seat that could be used by a paying customer.

5. You've seen kids get out of hand in restaurants. Imagine the tragedy of one going through mommy's purse and pulling the trigger on her gun. Or what if some homicidal drunk who doesn't have a gun decides to grab one he sees on another patron? Concealed doesn't mean "hidden."

6. Guns aren't allowed in Legislative Plaza, yet they're perfectly happy with folks carrying them into bars... the hypocrisy of their workplace vs. ours!

7. It is illegal to drink while armed. A person who consumes alcohol while packing a pistol may be in violation of the law, but that won't matter when someone dies in a heated barroom brawl from a gunshot wound.

8. Hunters bring flasks and beer on their hunting trips-- does anyone really think someone is just going to go to a bar, armed, and just hang out and not drink?

9. Even when fired with the best of intentions, bullets sometimes go astray. Fewer guns means there will be fewer accidents and mistakes.

10. This new law is making Tennessee a laughingstock. http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/HB0962.pdf will modify http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.d ... lates&2.0#

11. Bars are chaotic and noisy and loud. The controlled environment of a pistol range does not qualify a person to think and react the way police officers do. We don't need vigilantes in bars.

12. Finally, if you are so worried about your safety that you feel you need to be packing a pistol to go into such-and-such bar... then you just need to go somewhere else.

STOP THE INSANITY!

[TGO David]

If both supporters and opponents are supposed to just show up and simply be "silent", I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to understand which side you're there to support.

Wear your TGO or NRA hat.

[Fallguy]

At this time I can't commit that I can make it, however if I can, is there an area/place we would gather before hand?

[ngoeser59]

MAKE YOUR POINT! You'll find talking points below for debating the issue elsewhere and convincing your friends to join.

1. Bars can often be sites of confrontation. The last thing we need in them is ready access to firearms.

RESPONSE: Confrontation can occur anywhere. If someone wishes to KILL a person in a bar, they will find the means to do it with or without a gun….they can bring in a knife pretty easily. A man at O’Charley’s on Bell Road was murdered with a knife (lock the steak knives up!)

2. When firearms are allowed on bar premises, bars' and restaurants' liability insurance skyrockets, leading to higher prices for food and beverages. Really? Ask Jonny’s Sport’s Bar if their Insurance has gone up yet since my husband’s murder. It is more dangerous to have nobody armed there than not. A criminal can come in and murder 18 people very easily if nobody is carrying. An establishment that has HCP Holders in it can keep that number down so that they may kill 1 or 2 people but NOT 18! How much is each human life worth to an Insurance Company?

3. Servers don't need to be in the position of patting down customers, or asking them if they have a permit for their weapon. They aren't policemen. Nobody said they had to be policemen. They should not be patting people down. A bad guy will carry in their establishment and try to kill no matter the law or their silly little “no guns allowed†sign. Better to have people that are law abiding , trained citizens carrying to save lives than allow the criminal to murder whoever they want and as many as they want.

4. According to the law, people carrying guns can't drink in the bar, which means they're taking up a seat that could be used by a paying customer.

If they are there they will be drinking “coke†or “diet pepsi†and possibly enjoying some fries or chicken fingers. They have every right to be there just like anyone else no matter what they are ordering. As long as they order something you can’t say they are not a paying customer. So are Restaurants now going to make people who order a house salad and soup get up and leave because the other guy coming in wants steak & lobster? Most likely the HCP Holder will be at the bar with friends, those friends can drink and be big spenders and the carry holder can enjoy the evening spending less but he just brought in 5 big spenders for the bar….um….he is MAKING YOU MONEY ACTUALLY.

5. You've seen kids get out of hand in restaurants. Imagine the tragedy of one going through mommy's purse and pulling the trigger on her gun. Or what if some homicidal drunk who doesn't have a gun decides to grab one he sees on another patron? Concealed doesn't mean "hidden." Hmmm…..well I have been to McDonald’s with my gun in my purse with my friend and her young son. I am responsible and would NEVER leave my purse for a small child to get into. My eyes would be on that child and my purse. You assume HCP Holders are idiots. That’s because you have never been to a training course or understand any of the training WE HCP holders get.

6. Guns aren't allowed in Legislative Plaza, yet they're perfectly happy with folks carrying them into bars... the hypocrisy of their workplace vs. ours! I never said I agreed Guns should NOT be in the Legislative Plaza.

7. It is illegal to drink while armed. A person who consumes alcohol while packing a pistol may be in violation of the law, but that won't matter when someone dies in a heated barroom brawl from a gunshot wound. There are strict consequences to drinking and carrying. Nobody who is law abiding would break that law to face those harsh consequences. Hello!!!! If he drinks and shoots….um, he is a bad guy and he would have killed someone regardless of alcohol being there or not. Don’t punish good people for what Bad guys choose to do. There has NEVER been an account of where a HCP Holder ever did this sort of thing! Only Bad Guys do.

8. Hunters bring flasks and beer on their hunting trips-- does anyone really think someone is just going to go to a bar, armed, and just hang out and not drink? Hunters should not do that but they are NOT in PUBLIC. It’s apples and oranges. But yes….if the HCP Holder is there with friends and they are carrying….believe me, they do NOT want to lose their permit forever. They will not drink. HCP Holders take this very seriously. You cannot have that firearm ON YOU and be under the influence.

9. Even when fired with the best of intentions, bullets sometimes go astray. Fewer guns means there will be fewer accidents and mistakes. Fewer guns mean the bad guys will be the ones with Guns and they can kill as many people as they want. A trained person is NOT going to take a risky shot at the expense of innocent people’s lives. That is part of being TRAINED. You are taught what to do and not to do. When to shoot and when not to. You are taken through scenarios. At close range you can hit your intended target with success. They don’t give Permits out of Cracker Jack Boxes ya’ know!

10. This new law is making Tennessee a laughingstock. http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/HB0962.pdf will modify http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.d ... lates&2.0#

No, this new law is making Tn look SMART. You are the one’s being laughed at by the other 36 states that already have this law in place.

11. Bars are chaotic and noisy and loud. The controlled environment of a pistol range does not qualify a person to think and react the way police officers do. We don't need vigilantes in bars. Um…..Firing ranges are REALLY LOUD. Bars are not chaotic. I worked in one, I know. Chaos only occurs when a shot is fired and under those circumstances your animal instinct and training takes over. You evaluate the situation, know who the bad guy is and if you can take him out without harming others, you do so. Otherwise you don’t take the shot. PERIOD. What makes you think an officer can react any better? Training? I have had my permit course, intermediate course and two advanced courses and train whenever I can. Officers training is good but so is mine. Acting in Self Defense and defense of someone who’s life is about to be taken does NOT make you a vigilante. It makes you want to SURVIVE and care enough about others that you want them to SURVIVE. We are NOT out trying to be Police on the street watching over everyone and solving every single issue. We want to enjoy our time our with friends & family knowing we can defend ourselves if tragedy occurs. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. I know. They got to me and my husband in just enough time to put up crime scene tape and take pictures of my husband’s dead body.

12. Finally, if you are so worried about your safety that you feel you need to be packing a pistol to go into such-and-such bar... then you just need to go somewhere else.

I guess I don’t need to drive down the street, go to church, the grocery store or for a walk in the park either huh?! Crime occurs everywhere. If you had a family member murdered in front of you like my husband was in front of me, maybe then you would understand. It’s easy to sit back and call people like me GUN NUTS but until you walk in my shoes…..Your words will never have as much power as mine does. Listen to the voice of experience. I have a first hand account. You don’t.

STOP THE INSANITY!

Yes, Let’s stop YOUR insanity.

[TGO David]

At this time I can't commit that I can make it, however if I can, is there an area/place we would gather before hand?

If enough people comment in this thread that they are going to be there, then we can set a rallying point outside or inside the courthouse to distribute some "lapel badges" showing our support of our Second Amendment rights.

[Fallguy]

If enough people comment in this thread that they are going to be there, then we can set a rallying point outside or inside the courthouse to distribute some "lapel badges" showing our support of our Second Amendment rights.

Cool...

I will post later tonight about being able to come.

[Guest Isaac]

My responses to those questions:

1.) Confrontations in bars are generally between drunk people. If you are carrying legally, you wouldn't be drinking. Also, persons with a criminal record of violent behavior like that wouldn't have a permit in the first place.

2.) Is this even true? If so the same can be said of all retail stores and the fast food places you've been able to carry all along. I doubt there is any impact on insurance at all.

3.) People who get permits carry in a legal manner, and follow the rules. The kind of person who was going to go out and get wasted while armed is not likely to worry with getting a permit in the first place. Permit carriers aren't likely to let the time, money and effort required to get a permit go to waste by drinking while armed.

4.) So are designated drivers.

5.) That's ridiculous, no responsible gun owner is going to let kids go through their purse while a loaded gun is in it, period. And the sober person carrying is certainly going to be able to get away from some "homicidal drunk", not to mention that it is not as easy as many seem to think to just grab a gun out of someone else's holster. What kinds of bars are these people hanging out at anyway?

6.) I don't have one for this one, really, other than to say, sure, let us carry there too, hypocrisy solved.

7.) People who are carrying guns to use in "bar room brawls" aren't the type who get permits. They could care less whether it's legal or not. The threat from such individuals could be mitigated fairly quickly by a legally armed citizen being there if some drunk nutjob starts shooting up the place. Again, what kind of places are these people hanging out at?

8.) Yes, because it is the law. Gun control nuts never seem to understand the concept that people who have no respect for the law couldn't care less whether it's illegal to carry or not, and aren't going to bother with getting a permit and doing things legally. Those who get permits are the ones who respect the laws.

9.) Persons carrying legally are only going to shoot as a last resort, so it's not like bullets are going to be whizzing about in downtown Nashville all the time. By restricting guns in law, you do not reduce the amount of guns out there, you only reduce the amount in the hands of those who respect the law, and decrease their ability to protect themselves. You give the bad guys a green light to take whatever they want from whomever they want without risk to themselves.

10.) This makes us a laughingstock how exactly? Laws change, it's part of how the system works. Otherwise women wouldn't be able to vote, and people would still own slaves. Every law on the book regarding guns is a restriction of the 2nd amendment. By this logic, every every gun control law ever passed made us a laughingstock, not the ones removing the restrictions.

11.) Protecting yourself doesn't make you a vigilante. A vigilante would go hunting down criminals. Preventing yourself, your friends, or your family from becoming a victim is simple self defence. Liberals throw that word around way too much, and as is typical for them, they don't really understand what it means. You don't need to react like a police officer, you just need to react like a reasonable person faced with a threat.

12.) If you feel so threatened by American citizens using their 2nd amendment rights, then perhaps you should move to France.

Ok... 12 was a little snippy, but...

Sorry, I know it was a bit long winded.

[Guest Isaac]

Yeah, what Nikki said, I like hers better, heh. Sorry, took me a while to post and didn't see yours til after.

[Guest benchpresspower]

Due to work restrictions I won't be able to make this. Nikki, guys, any who may be going, give em hell for me.

[Guest GimpyLeg]

3. Servers don't need to be in the position of patting down customers, or asking them if they have a permit for their weapon. They aren't policemen.

Here is what I have never understood about this arguement. According to:

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence — Penalty. —

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

[Acts 1994, ch. 943, § 10; 1997, ch. 476, § 4.]

No matter where you carry, this applies to your HCP. If you are responsible to not carrying while under the influence, why would you go into Ruby Tuesdays after the 14th and NOT be responsible? I believe I also read in the complaint that THIS law (HB0962) does not mean you will not be under the influence prior to entering the establishment. Again, I point to the law above.

[Guest GimpyLeg]

Oh, and work has me tied up in Alabama that day, so I will not be able to be there, but I will be in mind and spirit.