What happ. to the Pharmacist?

[Trekbike]

Okay. That makes sense now. I forgot he got a second gun.

[Oh Shoot]

A huge irony is that the guy may have already been dead from the single justified shot.

Coroner ruled the perp died from the 2nd set of shots.

... And OS can speak for himself, but he may have also meant the robber would have eventually died from the single shot.

Actually, I didn't initially catch the coroner's ruling in the news reports, was my own (wrong) supposition.

- OS

[DaveTN]

It’s a sad day in our history when two thugs armed with handguns can walk into a business with at least the intent of committing armed robbery and possibly the intent of committing murder, and a man who is protecting himself and his employees ends up in prison for life.

But… we have a legal system; not a justice system.

I believe that when those potential murders crossed the door of the drug store with the intent of robbing it; their Constitutional and Civil rights should have stayed outside. I believe that someday that will be the case.

If I had been on the jury they would have just had to have another trial because there is no way in hell I would have sent that man to prison. He didn’t put the events that unfolded that day in motion; he just ended them abruptly.

I truly wish there was something that we as a group could do to stop this extreme miscarriage of (dare I even use the word) justice.

In these types of discussions I am always quick to point out what the law is, and the fact that the state will send you to prison, because I think it is critical that people understand that. But that doesn’t mean I agree with it or think its right. As a Police Officer I saw too many people go to jail that did not belong there.

[ttocswob]

I really question the legal defense made on behalf of the pharmacist.

It would seem that the "temporary insanity" defence would be taylor-made for this case, IMO.

[Seaslug]

Okay. That makes sense now. I forgot he got a second gun.

I feel compelled to also point out that the initial shot was a headshot that dropped the perp where he stood. The subsequent shots were all to the torso. The coroner ruled that the perp was still alive when the pharmacist delivered the second volley. Otherwise, there would've been no murder charge.

[Fallguy]

I feel compelled to also point out that the initial shot was a headshot that dropped the perp where he stood. The subsequent shots were all to the torso. The coroner ruled that the perp was still alive when the pharmacist delivered the second volley. Otherwise, there would've been no murder charge.

How do you figure?

If you come into my home at night to kill me and shoot my while I'm lying in the bed....you can still be charged with murder even if I died of a heart attack before you got there. Because your intention was to kill me and as far as you know, you did.

Now I admit in this case it might have made a bit of difference if not on the charges maybe on the outcome....but you can still be charged with murder even for shooting someone that is already dead.

EDIT...Maybe too much Criminal Minds etc.. again...lol

In TN at least...according to the actual text of the law, you do have to actually kill someone to be charged with first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide or vehicular homicide.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Fallguy

[Seaslug]

How do you figure?

If you come into my home at night to kill me and shoot my while I'm lying in the bed....you can still be charged with murder even if I died of a heart attack before you got there. Because your intention was to kill me and as far as you know, you did.

Now I admit in this case it might have made a bit of difference if not on the charges maybe on the outcome....but you can still be charged with murder even for shooting someone that is already dead.

EDIT...Maybe too much Criminal Minds etc.. again...lol

In TN at least...according to the actual text of the law, you do have to actually kill someone to be charged with first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide or vehicular homicide.

Haha. Glad you caught that. Plus, no DA worth his salt would have pushed murder 1 in the first place had the pharmacist merely pumped a few more rounds into a corpse. As has been said since the incident took place, the case really hinged on the testimony of the coroner. Even so, I still believe murder 1 was an excessive charge under the circumstances, and that Mr. Ersland should have a reasonable chance of having his conviction overturned upon appeal.

[Fallguy]

Haha. Glad you caught that. Plus, no DA worth his salt would have pushed murder 1 in the first place had the pharmacist merely pumped a few more rounds into a corpse. As has been said since the incident took place, the case really hinged on the testimony of the coroner. Even so, I still believe murder 1 was an excessive charge under the circumstances, and that Mr. Ersland should have a reasonable chance of having his conviction overturned upon appeal.

I haven't followed this real closely. Just when it first happened and now the outcome.

I have to admit, my opinion is somewhat affected, still not sure he should have went back and fired more rounds...but admit it doesn't seem to be first degree murder either.

[Smith]

It’s a sad day in our history when two thugs armed with handguns can walk into a business with at least the intent of committing armed robbery and possibly the intent of committing murder, and a man who is protecting himself and his employees ends up in prison for life.

But… we have a legal system; not a justice system.

I believe that when those potential murders crossed the door of the drug store with the intent of robbing it; their Constitutional and Civil rights should have stayed outside. I believe that someday that will be the case.

If I had been on the jury they would have just had to have another trial because there is no way in hell I would have sent that man to prison. He didn’t put the events that unfolded that day in motion; he just ended them abruptly.

I truly wish there was something that we as a group could do to stop this extreme miscarriage of (dare I even use the word) justice.

In these types of discussions I am always quick to point out what the law is, and the fact that the state will send you to prison, because I think it is critical that people understand that. But that doesn’t mean I agree with it or think its right. As a Police Officer I saw too many people go to jail that did not belong there.

Dave, I don't always agree with you but I'm 100% on this one with you.

[Defender]

It’s a sad day in our history when two thugs armed with handguns can walk into a business with at least the intent of committing armed robbery and possibly the intent of committing murder, and a man who is protecting himself and his employees ends up in prison for life.

But… we have a legal system; not a justice system.

I believe that when those potential murders crossed the door of the drug store with the intent of robbing it; their Constitutional and Civil rights should have stayed outside. I believe that someday that will be the case.

If I had been on the jury they would have just had to have another trial because there is no way in hell I would have sent that man to prison. He didn’t put the events that unfolded that day in motion; he just ended them abruptly.

I truly wish there was something that we as a group could do to stop this extreme miscarriage of (dare I even use the word) justice.

In these types of discussions I am always quick to point out what the law is, and the fact that the state will send you to prison, because I think it is critical that people understand that. But that doesn’t mean I agree with it or think its right. As a Police Officer I saw too many people go to jail that did not belong there.

I agree. It may have not been the best decision he made, but I wouldn't have put him in prison either. And your last sentence worries me. I was a military cop for 20 years. I think that was kinda like a small town cop in most cases, but sometimes we had bigger jurisdictions and bigger crimes. In my recollection, we were usually after law enforcement and justice, not winning or losing a case...MANY MANY times, I've seen people who mnade a mistake walk, in the interest of justice, when we possibly COULD have gotten a conviction under the letter of the law. Since I've retired and came back to the land of the big BX, things seem different. All too many times nowadays, it seems like the main goal is a WIN, i.e. a conviction, not justice. The question seems to become can we get a conviction here based on how it looks, not is justice being served. I know for a fact that there are people, usually poor, who take a plea deal, becasue they jusat cant afford a decent enough lawyer.

[DRM]

It’s a sad day in our history when two thugs armed with handguns can walk into a business with at least the intent of committing armed robbery and possibly the intent of committing murder, and a man who is protecting himself and his employees ends up in prison for life.

But… we have a legal system; not a justice system.

I believe that when those potential murders crossed the door of the drug store with the intent of robbing it; their Constitutional and Civil rights should have stayed outside. I believe that someday that will be the case.

If I had been on the jury they would have just had to have another trial because there is no way in hell I would have sent that man to prison. He didn’t put the events that unfolded that day in motion; he just ended them abruptly.

I truly wish there was something that we as a group could do to stop this extreme miscarriage of (dare I even use the word) justice.

In these types of discussions I am always quick to point out what the law is, and the fact that the state will send you to prison, because I think it is critical that people understand that. But that doesn’t mean I agree with it or think its right. As a Police Officer I saw too many people go to jail that did not belong there.

Cound't have said it better myself. No way I could have sent the guy to prison. He didn't start the fire, he just put it out.

[midtennchip]

Sentence came down today. Life! He will be eligible for parole, though.

Pharmacist gets life for killing would-be robber - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

He broke the law & should be punished, but life is a little too steep. I hope the governor intervenes in this one.

[mikegideon]

It was first degree. It may have been the minimum in that state

[Fallguy]

It was first degree. It may have been the minimum in that state

May have been what he was convicted of, but IMO not sure it was what he was guilty of. But too late for all of that now.

I agree probably minimum sentence for that crime.

[wcsc12]

Wow

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

May have been what he was convicted of, but IMO not sure it was what he was guilty of. But too late for all of that now.

I agree. Even if they did think it was first degree murder they should have taken into account the situation at the time & that the guy probably wasnt thinking 100% coherently after having just been shot at.

If I was a juror in that trial it probably would have resulted in a hung jury. I dont think they could have convinced me to give the guy life in prison. Thats nuts.

I'm REALLY hoping the governor intervenes on this one. If I lived in Oklahoma I would DEFINITELY be writing him a letter letting him know how I felt about it.

[JAB]

I believe that when those potential murders crossed the door of the drug store with the intent of robbing it; their Constitutional and Civil rights should have stayed outside. I believe that someday that will be the case.

If I had been on the jury they would have just had to have another trial because there is no way in hell I would have sent that man to prison. He didn’t put the events that unfolded that day in motion; he just ended them abruptly.

Pretty much this.

Were I on such a jury, I might be willing to find 'guilty' on a manslaughter charge. Maybe. Not sure, though. Murder 1 would have been a hung jury with me on it.

When someone is in a place they shouldn't be, performing a violent crime that they shouldn't be performing, it is their own damned fault if they end up dead, period. I wouldn't do as this pharmacist did because, as DaveTN said, the state would send me to prison and I have no desire to go there. That said, I wouldn't have held the pharmacist criminally responsible for murder had I been on the jury.