Corps of Engineers property?

[busted knuckles]

After reading many of the posts in the preceeding pages about carrying in National Parks, Forests, Buildings, etc., I'm left wondering where Corps property falls in this. Our State has lots of boat launch access areas, campgrounds, even the water itself that many of us use frequently. Some of the launch areas I wouldn't want to use unless I was carrying.

I realize the laws are changing rapidly right now. If you can carry while fishing in your boat, can you also carry on any Corps property?

[Fallguy]

AFAIK per federal law you can not carry of Corp of Engineers property.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

[Guest redbarron06]

It depends on if the land is leased out or not. Fro example the entire shore of Percy Priest is COE. Most of it is leased to TWRA as a WMA. Of course that would fall under the carry on WMA that has not yet passed. Many boat ramps on Priest are in state parks (therefor you can carry on them). Best bet is to contact the COE about a specific piece that you have in question.

[busted knuckles]

Thanks for the reply and link. This is an excerpt from that link.

5. U.S. Army Corp of Engineers* The Corp builds and runs flood control and navigation Dams.

The Dam and grounds around the dam are Federal Property. Many State Parks are found around

the Lakes and Rivers Corps Dams form. The boundary between Corp Property and State

Property is not clearly marked. There are also boundary lines in the lake between State and Federal

waters. It is up to you to know these boundaries.

That's some vague wording right there. There are little red signs all around the lakes indentifying the boundary, usually to private property. Never seen a map with boudaries marked on the water itself. Interesting. I wonder if the county in question's S.O. would be able to answer, or probably better would be a Corps ranger.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

AFAIK per federal law you can not carry of Corp of Engineers property.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

I dont believe thats correct... I believe as long as its a "legal" means of possessing a firearm then you can carry. If you couldnt "carry" then how do the duck hunters get to the water?

I think we have addressed this somewhere... and the phrase.... "Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State" should apply.

There was a thread long ago where we addressed all of this.

read the whole thread for a full explanation...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/8209-carry-tva-lake.html

Edited July 6, 2009 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Fallguy]

I dont believe thats correct... I believe as long as its a "legal" means of possessing a firearm then you can carry. If you couldnt "carry" then how do the duck hunters get to the water?

I think we have addressed this somewhere... and the phrase.... "Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State" should apply.

There was a thread long ago where we addressed all of this.

read the whole thread for a full explanation...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/8209-carry-tva-lake.html

I remember that thread.

...and I understand hunters getting to the location. But even they would have to keep their firearms unloaded until getting there, right?

Also I though in this thread we were talking more like on or in the dam itself or other terra firma property

[busted knuckles]

I remember that thread.

Also I though in this thread we were talking more like on or in the dam itself or other terra firma property

True. Specifically a Corps of Engineers campground or boat launch area such as in the middle TN area, Defeated Creek Campground, Seven Points Campground and launch area, Shutes Branch lauch area, examples of areas run entirely by the Corps.

Some areas such as Edgar Evins State Park are located on Corps lakes and property, but managed by the State. Is there a difference between the two types of areas as far as carry laws are concerned?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

the letter from the TWRA clears it up pretty much. I'd copy that letter and carry it with me. Thats going to give any officer all kinds of doubt if your stopped. The dam is one thing but I believe the posts earlier refer to "boat launch access areas, campgrounds, even the water itself"....

"(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;"......

327.0 Applicability.

The regulations covered in this part 327 shall be applicable to water resources development projects, completed or under construction, administered by the Chief of Engineers, and to those portions of jointly administered water resources development projects which are under the administrative jurisdiction of the Chief of Engineers. ALL OTHER FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS REMAIN IN FULL FORCE AND EFFECT WHERE APPLICABLE TO THOSE WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.

AND...

327.26 State and local laws.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:

(1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;

(2) Hunting, fishing and trapping;

(3) Use or possession of firearms or other weapons;

(4) Civil disobedience and criminal acts;

(5) Littering, sanitation and pollution; and

(6) Alcohol or other controlled substances.

( These state and local laws and ordinances are enforced by those state and local enforcement agencies established and authorized for that purpose.

SEC 327.6 SAY THIS....

327.26 State and local laws.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:

(1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;

(2) Hunting, fishing and trapping;

(3) Use or possession of firearms or other weapons;

(4) Civil disobedience and criminal acts;

(5) Littering, sanitation and pollution; and

(6) Alcohol or other controlled substances

State and Local laws apply, and are enforced by State and Local Law Enforcement officers. See...

( These state and local laws and ordinances are enforced by those state and local enforcement agencies established and authorized for that purpose.

[Guest Muttling]

I dont believe thats correct... I believe as long as its a "legal" means of possessing a firearm then you can carry. If you couldnt "carry" then how do the duck hunters get to the water?

I think we have addressed this somewhere... and the phrase.... "Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State" should apply.

There was a thread long ago where we addressed all of this.

read the whole thread for a full explanation...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/8209-carry-tva-lake.html

One note on that comment by redbarron at the end of the linked thread.

I respectfully disagree with him. TVA does indeed own a number of lakes. Percy Priest is a USACE lake so the Corps owns it and leases out some of the property. The Corps has nothing to do with Norris, Watts Barr, Melton Hill, Chickamagua, etc, etc. Percy Priest is not in the Tennessee Valley or TVA's official domain which doesn't cover all of Tennessee but does extend into other states.

What's more, TVA police have similar powers to that of U.S. Marshalls. Don't get smart with them just because one confronts you in Georgia, it's likely that he is still within his jurisdiction.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest redbarron06]

Ok stumbled on pertinate info on another thread.

You can not carry on corps of engineer property.

TITLE 36 - PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER III - CORPS OF ENGINEERS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

PART 327 - RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS

327.13 - Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless: (1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer; (2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites; (3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or (4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

( Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

[65 FR 6901, Feb. 11, 2000]

Link 36 CFR 327.13 - Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks. - Code of Federal Regulations - Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property - vLex

COE lakes in TN include Center Hill, Cheatham Lock and Dam, Cordell Hull Dam and Reservoir, Dale Hollow Lake, J Percy Priest Dam and Reservoir, and J Percy Priest Dam and Reservoir.

Link Corps Lakes Gateway: Tennessee

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

I spoke with a TWRA agent and he said we could carry on the Stones River, which empties into Priest. I need to ask him when does it become the J Percy Priest Reservoir.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

too restricted for legally armed, is all that says to me... and you truly need a lawyer in your pocket just to know where you can and can not go,

i think they try to make it complicated to try and disarm people