Gauging Interest - Magpul Dynamics, Dynamic Carbine Class, Middle Tennessee 2010

[TGO David]

I alluded to this in another thread a week or so ago, but...

I have been in contact with Chris Costa at Magpul Dynamics and have begun discussions about TGO hosting a "Dynamic Carbine 1" class here in Middle Tennessee sometime in 2010. This would be at minimum a 2-Day course, possibly a 3-Day course if enough people are willing to commit to that.

Costs associated with the class would be:

• 2-Day: $500
  
• 3-Day: $600
  
• Range fee TBD (usually not much)
  

Some background information:

ABOUT MAGPUL DYNAMICS

Magpul Dynamics is a tactical training company with a curriculum focused on Military, Law Enforcement and Private Sector professional skill sets.

Designed by an expert team of instructors with extensive combat experience in the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, Central America and South America, Magpul Dynamics delivers skill-building courses for students ranging from novice to expert. Prioritizing efficiency and consistency in mind set, fundamentals and stress conditioning, the courses run the gamut from basic weapons skills to advanced dynamic assault in complex urban environments.

Magpul Dynamics brings the best of what works to every class.

ABOUT THE INSTRUCTORS

Travis Haley | President

Travis Haley is a veteran Force Reconnaissance Marine with 14 years of dedicated real world experience including combat tours in the Balkans, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and other classified locations around the world. After leaving the military, Travis Haley has served as a special operations and security contractor including numerous PSD details for dignitaries such as Ambassador Paul Bremer, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Ambassador John Blaney of Liberia, and ECOWAS/MIL JTF task force commander General John Tuner.

The founder, President and Director of Operations at Simply Dynamic Tactical, Mr. Haley developed and refined a tactical training program that he has used to instruct military, government security, law enforcement and private citizens. He brings both his dynamic training methodology and his leadership to Magpul Dynamics.

Chris Costa | Director of Training

Mr. Costa has spent the better part of the past 7 years in the private sector at Applied Marine Technologies Inc. and Linxx on assignment with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Risk Management Division (RMD). At AMTI and Linxx, Mr. Costa specialized in Chemical, Nuclear, Biological and Radiological environments teaching Police Tactical Operations-CBRNE (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear or High Explosive) environments and providing Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on critical infrastructures for the US Government. Prior to this, Mr. Costa spent 12 years with the United States Coast Guard conducting law enforcement and special operations missions in Europe, the Middle East, and South America.

In addition to being Lead Instructor, Mr. Costa's role at Magpul Dynamics is to direct all training and personnel and oversee product testing and development.

ABOUT THE DYNAMIC CARBINE I CLASS

An entry-level course where students are familiarized with their rifles. The class will thoroughly cover:

• Proper choice and placement of gear
  
  
• Different optics and accessories
  
  
• Effective shooting stance
  
  
• Proper weapon grip
  
  
• Recoil control
  
  
• Sight alignment
  
  
• Sight picture using iron sights and electronic optics
  
  
• Trigger control
  
  
• Speed reloads
  
  
• Tactical reloads
  
  
• Possible malfunctions of the rifle
  
  
• Strong and weak hand shooting while both stationary and on the move
  
  
• Different shooting positions
  
  
• Choosing the proper position for the task
  
  

I will note that Mr. Costa informed me that a 3-Day Dynamic Carbine I class verges on material that they begin covering in their advanced Carbine II class. If we can pull off a 3-Day class with them, it would be much to our advantage to do so.

That being said, his description of what constitutes an "entry-level carbine class" covers material that some training groups set aside for their advanced classes. You're going to be busting your butt and running your gear pretty hard.

I NEED MORE MOTIVATION...

Yeah?

YouTube - Chris Costa Magpul Class

YouTube - Magpul Dynamics Carbine Class

OK, I'M INTERESTED!

Good, vote in the poll associated with this thread. Only vote if you would SERIOUSLY make a very earnest effort to attend, if the class tuition is not an obstacle, and if you're not going to whine about not being able to find or afford ammo at the last minute.

We need 18 commitments to make this happen.

Go to it.

*********

Folks, apparently I need to clarify something:

I was asked if this didn't constitute a conflict of interest with our existing training vendors. The answer to that is No. Firstly, this idea sprang forth from a conversation that I had with Todd @ CIS a few weeks ago. CIS has actually helped set this into motion and will potentially be hosting Magpul Dynamics as long as their range facility is usable for the class.

Secondly, any TGO vendor that wants to host an outside training provider and make that available to TGO's membership is more than welcome to do so. In fact, I will do anything that I can to facilitate it and assist with the planning and logistics. I was not involved in it, but Coal Creek Armory has also hosted outside training in the past and promoted it here on TGO.

Thirdly, TGO itself is a "vendor" in the sense that we sometimes do make goods and services available to our members. There will sometimes be overlap in our vendor areas of expertise as TGO does not sell exclusive advertising rights either geographically or demographically. To that end, I'm not even making money off of a Magpul Class. The prices are high as is, so any additional fee would be suicide.

Hope this helps it make more sense.

Edited July 1, 2009 by TGO David

[E4 No More]

I have enough testosterone; but not the energy. I'm too old for this

[PaiMei]

Yup...Id definitely be in on this.

[Guest redbarron06]

As long as I dont get voluntold to go somewhere I am in. How many rounds do I need so I can start rat holing it now?

[TGO David]

As long as I dont get voluntold to go somewhere I am in. How many rounds do I need so I can start rat holing it now?

They say the following is their guideline:

2-Day Course: 1500rds carbine, 200rds handgun

3-Day Course: 2000rds carbine, 300rds handgun

I understand that these numbers are enough to make some people wince. It's also enough to make others say "To hell with that" and not even try to attend. I tend to look at this as a vetting process, even for myself. If I am serious about the class and serious about wanting to learn, I'm going to make the investment.

Some folks will want to attend but simply won't be able to because of the cost associated. I understand that and can empathize. I've been there. This will easily be the most expensive class that I personally have attended... but I know it will be worth the investment if I am able to put out for it.

[Guest redbarron06]

They say the following is their guideline:

2-Day Course: 1500rds carbine, 200rds handgun

3-Day Course: 2000rds carbine, 300rds handgun

I understand that these numbers are enough to make some people wince. It's also enough to make others say "To hell with that" and not even try to attend. I tend to look at this as a vetting process, even for myself. If I am serious about the class and serious about wanting to learn, I'm going to make the investment.

Some folks will want to attend but simply won't be able to because of the cost associated. I understand that and can empathize. I've been there. This will easily be the most expensive class that I personally have attended... but I know it will be worth the investment if I am able to put out for it.

That is a boat load or brass dude:stare:

I am pending a new job in Oct if I get it I should not have a problem coming up with it as long as I dont wait until the last minute and can find it. But depending on when in 2010 I should be able to pull it off. If I dont get the job I guess I can start getting ammo 100rds or so at a time until then. One thing is for sure I will not be getting wolf or some other cheap stuff for the class.

Have you heard of any class restrictions as far as equipment? Being military I would prefer to be able to use my "go to war" gear for the class. Its that whole "train as you fight" thing.

Also forgot to add, I would be willing to do the 3 day if we can get enough together.

Edited June 30, 2009 by redbarron06

[MacGyver]

Looks like I'll finally get the chance to see how some of those non-Lake City bulk packs I'm always so squirrelly about buying function. I'd definitely be interested.

[TGO David]

That is a boat load or brass dude:stare:

Have you heard of any class restrictions as far as equipment? Being military I would prefer to be able to use my "go to war" gear for the class. Its that whole "train as you fight" thing.

Also forgot to add, I would be willing to do the 3 day if we can get enough together.

Yeah, it's a lot of brass. Easily $800 worth if you shoot XM193 and don't buy it in bulk. Magpul Dynamics has no shortage of people wanting to take their classes and the AAR's that I have read elsewhere are nothing but glowing. I've yet to read an AAR from someone who felt like they didn't get their money's worth out of their class.

As far as I know, you're welcome to run whatever gear you use in the field. If there are specific items that you're concerned about, let me know and I'll ask Chris Costa when I speak with him next.

I'm really hoping for the 3-Day class, myself. I realize it adds even more overhead in terms of ammo, but Chris says that with a 3-Day class, by the time Day 3 rolls around you're getting to do some pretty advanced stuff.

[poak]

YES.

I have a possible employment opportunity that could possibly interfere with me being able to commit, but otherwise, I'm there.

[creeky]

This is a great idea! It more than looks like it would be worth the investment of both time and money. I hate that the economy is so bad right now. There is no way I could attend such a function with these costs. (Though I do think it is worth the money!) Not with things in their current state anyway.

Also it would drastically damage my streak of never appearing at a TGO sanctioned event.

Thanks for getting stuff like this put together, and I hope you have a huge turn out for it.

[Guest redbarron06]

Yeah, it's a lot of brass. Easily $800 worth if you shoot XM193 and don't buy it in bulk. Magpul Dynamics has no shortage of people wanting to take their classes and the AAR's that I have read elsewhere are nothing but glowing. I've yet to read an AAR from someone who felt like they didn't get their money's worth out of their class.

As far as I know, you're welcome to run whatever gear you use in the field. If there are specific items that you're concerned about, let me know and I'll ask Chris Costa when I speak with him next.

I'm really hoping for the 3-Day class, myself. I realize it adds even more overhead in terms of ammo, but Chris says that with a 3-Day class, by the time Day 3 rolls around you're getting to do some pretty advanced stuff.

Good deal

[dunndw]

IN

All we need now is a vendor to score a shipment of 5.56 for us at reasonable...for the times prices

[TGO David]

IN

All we need now is a vendor to score a shipment of 5.56 for us at reasonable...for the times prices

If any of our vendors want to do that, I would certainly welcome it and add that information to the first post in this thread. Perhaps several vendors would even be willing since students might end up coming from various parts of the state.

Vendors, if you're interested hit me up with the info. Thanks!

[10Kilr]

All over it. This is a good idea all the way around. A couple of classes a year would be an awesome investment for anyone.

[10Kilr]

IN

All we need now is a vendor to score a shipment of 5.56 for us at reasonable...for the times prices

7.62x39 might be needed too......hint......hint.

[Guest mustangdave]

I'd LOVE to do a class like this...but right now its outa my price range...class wise and ammo wise

[Guest mustangdave]

I have enough testosterone; but not the energy. I'm too old for this

..I can relate...I'd rather lay low under cover and pick em off from a distance...sniper style.

[TGO David]

I'm going to go easy on you guys who voted NO and change the poll. All of us men here are manly men (except for StrickJ) so I know it's not a lack of testosterone keeping you away from the class. Ammo costs alone will be pretty steep.

[E4 No More]

..I can relate...I'd rather lay low under cover and pick em off from a distance...sniper style.

Exactly!

Just like the story of the old bull and young bull on top of a hill overlooking a herd of cows.

[bwswanson]

Do you plan on offering the Dynamic Handgun anytime or just the Carbine?

[TGO David]

Do you plan on offering the Dynamic Handgun anytime or just the Carbine?

Chris Costa recommended that if we do that, we do Dynamic Carbine first as it will address several fundamental things that will help in Dynamic Handgun. So yes, that discussion has already taken place. If we do, we'd likely do Handgun later in 2010 so that people have time to replenish their wallets and ammo supply.

[Guest abailey362]

would they allow you to run a .22lr carbine for this? It would greatly reduce the cost, even if someone had to drop the $300 to get a cmmg conversion and a few extra mags, or even buy a new colt 22

I know no one would take .22 as a first choice if s did htf, but there's not much that should be diff for punchin holes, unless there is very long range action ( i can still hold good groups with BUIS out of my rra m4 w/ conversion kit @ 100yds)

[Reservoir Dog]

Definitely interested. Hopefully my poor knees can handle all that shifting of positions.

[hkusp40cal]

I am in for this unless something major changes. 2010 gives me plenty of time to get the ammo together.

[TGO David]

would they allow you to run a .22lr carbine for this? It would greatly reduce the cost, even if someone had to drop the $300 to get a cmmg conversion and a few extra mags, or even buy a new colt 22

I know no one would take .22 as a first choice if s did htf, but there's not much that should be diff for punchin holes, unless there is very long range action ( i can still hold good groups with BUIS out of my rra m4 w/ conversion kit @ 100yds)

I don't know the answer to that, but I will ask. Fundamentally I'd say that anything that lets you shoot and hit the target is going to be OK for punching paper and if it removes an obstacle standing between you and training, why not.

BUT, I could also foresee the argument being made that you should train as you fight, and unless you plan on fighting with a .22LR conversion in your AR15...

Finally I will also say that many of the After Action Reports given by students who have gone through these or similar classes have said that the rate of fire and round counts characteristic of this type of training will make faulty gear fail. I read plenty of stories about people having difficulty with their .22LR conversion kits just punching paper at the range on lazy weekend afternoons. I question whether a conversion kit like this would really function up to par while subjected to the sort of abuse you and your gun are going to see in a Dynamic Carbine class.