NEED TO FIND ELITE TACTICAL SYSTEMS OWNER

[TGO David]

I'm not sure where I've stood ready to criticize the TGO Staff. But I registered over two and a half years ago and have been coming here everyday, its safe to say I'm not going to agree with everything. I realize this is your project and if you want I will stop coming here, I'll miss TGO but I'll do it. And for the CoC I was referring to rules #3 and #5. Name calling and illegal activities. I know Frank, and if some of the people walked up to his door and acted like they type online; the police would be called.

I'm pretty sure Frank knows all about having the police called. And furthermore, I am quite honestly amazed that he hasn't been hunted down and done grave bodily harm by some of the people he's screwed over. I think the only reason that it hasn't happened yet is that it of course would be illegal.

[bteague2]

I'm pretty sure Frank knows all about having the police called. And furthermore, I am quite honestly amazed that he hasn't been hunted down and done grave bodily harm by some of the people he's screwed over. I think the only reason that it hasn't happened yet is that it of course would be illegal.

Now I'm confused, it looks like we agree. Frank knows, the other people involved know; they are using the system. People showing up at his house is not how our system works.

Like I said I like it here, so if me dropping this would be the wise move I'll drop it.

[TripleDigitRide]

Now I'm confused, it looks like we agree. Frank knows, the other people involved know; they are using the system. People showing up at his house is not how our system works.

Like I said I like it here, so if me dropping this would be the wise move I'll drop it.

Since you seem to be so close with him, what are his intentions in regards to paying back any moneis he owes to all these people he's screwed?

[Jasongar8]

Since you seem to be so close with him, what are his intentions in regards to paying back any moneis he owes to all these people he's screwed?

+1

[Smith]

I don't personally see a reason to jump on bteague2 about Frank. Frank had a lot of friends, that many of us know and respect, that he let hang out to dry. Doesn't make them Frank or Frank's problems and I can't blame them for wanting to make sure the ship is even keeled. That's what friends do.

That being said, if these guys making threats would just jump on board with the legal processes all ready in play, I can almost guarantee they will get back more than by showing up at his door and flexing their angry muscles. Maybe not as much satisfaction, but more of what matters.

[DaveTN]

Frank knows, the other people involved know; they are using the system.

How’s that working for them?

People showing up at his house is not how our system works.

That’s how it works in the criminal world.

I was lucky enough not to get involved in his scams. But I’m still really curious how he kept from getting arrested on criminal charges. I’m not talking about charges relating to guns or anything the ATF would be investigating; I’m talking about theft or Felony Theft by Deception. (This is “Theft by Deception†in Illinois. I don’t not what the proper name of the law would be in Tennessee. The amount would make it a felony.)

He tried to use this forum to rip people off.

[Smith]

How’s that working for them?

That’s how it works in the criminal world.

I was lucky enough not to get involved in his scams. But I’m still really curious how he kept from getting arrested on criminal charges. I’m not talking about charges relating to guns or anything the ATF would be investigating; I’m talking about theft or Felony Theft by Deception. (This is “Theft by Deception†in Illinois. I don’t not what the proper name of the law would be in Tennessee. The amount would make it a felony.)

He tried to use this forum to rip people off.

Completely guessing, but I'm gonna say it's becasue he did try to deliver - initially. From everything I've seen it was not intentionally set up as a scam or fraud. Thing is when you are robbing Peter to pay Paul sooner or later it gets called due. Up till the initial deal, Frank was good to go. Then he got leveraged and it snowballed from there. Instead of mitigating the situation he ran and hid and it only got worse. Not trying to defend the guy. This is just what I gathered from, reading countless threads and hearing what people close to him said - FWTW.:-\

[TripleDigitRide]

I don't personally see a reason to jump on bteague2 about Frank. Frank had a lot of friends, that many of us know and respect, that he let hang out to dry. Doesn't make them Frank or Frank's problems and I can't blame them for wanting to make sure the ship is even keeled. That's what friends do.

That being said, if these guys making threats would just jump on board with the legal processes all ready in play, I can almost guarantee they will get back more than by showing up at his door and flexing their angry muscles. Maybe not as much satisfaction, but more of what matters.

I wasn't trying to give him a hard time.

All these people are out lots of hard earned money, and I'm sure they would appreciate any and all answers they can get at this time.

If any of you were out your hard-earned money, I doubt you'd be nearly as eager to stand up and defend Frank, in any capacity.

I don't condone physical violence, but I'm sure people are upset and looking to vent some of there frustrations by way of posting on these forums. I think most of us can say we've acted in a similar fashion at one time or another, especially when it comes to being ripped off.

[TGO David]

The problem is, Frank hasn't exactly just deceived people once. Him trying to run an illegal raffle on TGO and subsequently throwing a huge-ass fit when we shut down his thread -- we didn't even ban him! -- is just scratching the surface.

From what I have read and heard from first-hand accounts, he has done it repeatedly. Further he has brought physical violence into the equation himself by threatening and assaulting people as part of the whole downward spiral.

He has bad mouthed me on more than one occasion to other people but then tried to play it off and rewrite history when he was face to face with me and our former co-admin at a training class. Frank is a douche. Period. I consider it a public service to allow people to use TGO as a rallying point to locate his latest hiding holes and continue shoving him out of the firearms world and into fast food business where he belongs.

[Smith]

I was in on the raffle thing, before any objections were raised, so i understand a little. I can't imagine being out the big bucks like some guys and I don't think I'm defending the guy. Just saying keeping a level head about the thing is probably better than letting it get folks blood pressure boiling. My point is it won't do them any good or make them feel better. In fact it will probably do the opposite. What goes around comes around and I won't feel a bit saddened when it smacks Frank upside the head. Forcing the issue just slows the process down.

It is a sensitive issue and folks are rightly upset. I still hope frank will at least salvage something positive and restore as much as he can. If he doesn't, well........... it all be on him at that point.

[Guest JHatmaker]

First off, I'm not defending this guy either. Sounds like what he did was pretty :poop:ty, but to all these folks who say they want to confront him, we've repeatedly told you where you could find him. So go confront him if you want retribution, just do it the right way (non-violent). If he's still teaching classes Wednesday's (all day) and maybe Saturday's at ASP, try to catch him during lunch. He's not hard to miss, just look for the Glock fan boy in black Glock polo, black jeans, and black New Balance. Ask him to sit down and explain himself. You may not get your money back, but at least you can put this somewhat behind you. If people start showing up at his work, it'll threaten his cash flow and he might be more inclined to start making ammends, knowing people haven't forgotten what he did.

Or try to go through the legal system like several folks have mentioned. But this could go on and on, all the talk, threats etc for years. Piss or get off the pot.

I understand the frustration, and would be pissed if had happened to me, but it's not like he's still hiding, he's just not logging on here anymore. But he's certainly not in some tent in the woods somewhere eating bugs and drinking his pee......at least I don't think he is.

[DavidD]

....... Piss or get off the pot.

I understand the frustration, and would be pissed if had happened to me, but it's not like he's still hiding, he's just not logging on here anymore. But he's certainly not in some tent in the woods somewhere eating bugs and drinking his pee......at least I don't think he is.

Right on Jason. The Frank Bashing has gotten really old. I do understand he has pissed off (and possibly on) a lot of folks but dang, it is truly getting redundant. Now I must admitt that I haven't lost any money due to his incompetant business practices so I really don't know how some of these people feel, just throwing in my worth.

[TripleDigitRide]

You always have the option of not reading the threads related to Frank. That's usually what I do if a thread doesn't interest me.

[Jasongar8]

Right on Jason. The Frank Bashing has gotten really old. I do understand he has pissed off (and possibly on) a lot of folks but dang, it is truly getting redundant. Now I must admitt that I haven't lost any money due to his incompetant business practices so I really don't know how some of these people feel, just throwing in my worth.

If its "truly getting redundant" then why the hell are you still reading the thread? The people who did lose money dont give a about your .02.

[Daniel]

whoa.

[DavidD]

If its "truly getting redundant" then why the hell are you still reading the thread? The people who did lose money dont give a about your .02.

ouch, guess you told me.

[Jasongar8]

DavidD, Its nothing against you personally. Its just if you are tired of somthing just dont look at it. I can understand that your may not feel as strongly as some of the guys who got screwed by Frank, and since it doesnt affect you I'm sure you do grow tired of reading about it. But some guys are out quite a bit of money to him, and I believe that they have a reason to be pissed. I think that this thread is the place to talk about it. My post wasnt ment as a personal attack on you, Im sure you are a good guy. And if you had lost money to Frank you may feel different.

-Jason G

[poak]

in some tent in the woods somewhere eating bugs and drinking pee.

Note to self: Do NOT go camping w/ JHatmaker.

[Guest JHatmaker]

Note to self: Do NOT go camping w/ JHatmaker.

After the first few sips you get used to it...

[poak]

After the first few sips you get used to it...

[DavidD]

DavidD, Its nothing against you personally. Its just if you are tired of somthing just dont look at it. I can understand that your may not feel as strongly as some of the guys who got screwed by Frank, and since it doesnt affect you I'm sure you do grow tired of reading about it. But some guys are out quite a bit of money to him, and I believe that they have a reason to be pissed. I think that this thread is the place to talk about it. My post wasnt ment as a personal attack on you, Im sure you are a good guy. And if you had lost money to Frank you may feel different.

-Jason G

Jason G, I accept your apology if that is what you intended. No hard feelings as I understand that those who lost out have a reason to be pissed. While I stated I did not loose any money personally to Frank, I do have other interest in keeping up with what's going on with him and his now Defunct ETS. My only point was that all of the bashing wasn't going to change a thing for those that are out money OR got screwed and in fact just makes it worse by dragging it on, and on, and on. It's time for all of us to, as Jason so eloquently put it, "**** or get off the pot" The OP had a legitimate question, it was answered, now we are here. Keep up the good fight.

[TGO David]

*sigh*

Threads on TGO don't need to devolve to the point that we find ourselves pitted against one another. Closing this down.