Primed hulls as snap caps

[wjh2657]

I store my HD shotgun (Maverick 88 ) in "cruiser mode". Lately I have been reading that this a bad habit as I have to fire on an empty chamber to set up gun (chamber empty/5 in tube, safety off) The recommendation is to use a snap cap. However, the plastic ones are unreliable in feed and leave plastic residue in action when ejected. Aluminum doesn't do much better. The brass ones cost more for one than a box of ammo! My question is , has anybody done the "cruiser mode" using a primed hull for the first round (in chamber). I have a safe area to fire the weapon into ground with primer. Then load 5 loaded into tube. Primed hulls feed and eject normally and can be re-primed for many uses. They are also a whole lot cheaper. Gun would only be unloaded and reset once every couple of weeks for inspection and light cleaning. I can buy hulls in different color scheme than my shells.

[Rightwinger]

Is this only so you don't have to find the slide release? If so I think your doing a lot of extra and potentially unsafe steps where you could just practice with a totally empty shotgun and know where that release is and rack one in and go! The purpose of the empty chamber is to be empty.

"Know thy weapons and their abilities and you shall have long life and prosper" old Judeovulcan proverb

[Punisher84]

Is this only so you don't have to find the slide release? If so I think your doing a lot of extra and potentially unsafe steps where you could just practice with a totally empty shotgun and know where that release is and rack one in and go! The purpose of the empty chamber is to be empty.

"Know thy weapons and their abilities and you shall have long life and prosper" old Judeovulcan proverb

I agree. I keep mine with a full tube, safety off, and empty chamber after it has already been dry fired. All I have to do is grab it, rack, and reckon the misdeed about to be done unto me!

[Currently]

I have a 25 count box of plastic orange 12 ga. training blanks.

PM me if you want enough to fill your magazine.

I will sell them at cost.

BROWNELLS: SAF-T-TRAINERS: PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES

[Guest Mugster]

Is this only so you don't have to find the slide release? If so I think your doing a lot of extra and potentially unsafe steps where you could just practice with a totally empty shotgun and know where that release is and rack one in and go! The purpose of the empty chamber is to be empty.

"Know thy weapons and their abilities and you shall have long life and prosper" old Judeovulcan proverb

+1

You don't want fake ammo anywhere close to something you may have to use for self defense.

Read your shotgun manual or take it to a gunshop for 5 minutes of instruction.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't get it.

Start with empty chamber. If it's "cocked", dry fire it.

Load the tube, leave the safety off, you're ready to rack and roll.

If this is all to keep from dry firing one time before loading up, it won't hurt the gun, really.

- OS

[wjh2657]

How many that answered were gunsmiths? I have been carrying and shooting Mossbergs for 54 years, and I haven't broken a firing pin yet either. That wasn't the point. I can find the release, the question (to a person who actually is schooled and certified to repair the weapon) is: does it do actual harm to dry fire the weapon on an empty chamber and/or is it harmful to leave the spring compressed on the firing pin? The fact that somebody has done it again and again does not mean it is always right. Has a gunsmith or armorer out there actually had experience with either of these factors? I am looking for a professional/technical answer.

As I have seen this topic on several forums, I would like somebody who really knows to give a definitive answer and lay the point to rest.

Edited June 29, 2009 by wjh2657

[Oh Shoot]

... As I have seen this topic on several forums, I would like somebody who really knows to give a definitive answer and lay the point to rest.

My humble apologies.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

If you are looking for a professional, technical answer, then why ask on an open public forum? Everyone here has given good advice as to why what you were asking is not a great idea.

[wjh2657]

My humble apologies.

- OS

None requested nor needed. I see we are both members of the Over the Hill Gang, so you know how hard it is to get something off your mind until you get a good answer. I have always dry fired on the empty chamber and loaded the tube, but now "new thought" is that this the wrong thing to do. I would just like to know if there is anybody out there who has actually worked on a problem caused by either of the stated practices. I was an armorer in the USMC and I never saw a problem with compressed springs in any weapon nor dry firing either but weapons change, or at least metallurgy does.

[wjh2657]

If you are looking for a professional, technical answer, then why ask on an open public forum? Everyone here has given good advice as to why what you were asking is not a great idea.

Because I have already emailed Mossberg and Remington and both state that it is a bad practice to leave spring compressed or dry fire gun, which flies in the face of all the answers here. However, I myself have practiced the snap the trigger on an empty chamber and load the tube , without any dire results. I suspect their answer is the standard "error on the side of legal safety." There are gunsmiths that are on these forums and I thought it easier than driving to Virginia or somewhere else to find a face to face gunsmith. It seems the only gunsmiths we have in my area are Glock armorers. Everybody else just mails their guns to the factory.

Edited June 29, 2009 by wjh2657

[Oh Shoot]

None requested nor needed. I see we are both members of the Over the Hill Gang, so you know how hard it is to get something off your mind until you get a good answer....

My answer comes from the that fact that if 870/Mossberg dry firing or leaving cocked had adverse effects it would be widely known. 60 years of military, police, and civilian use would reveal a fact such as this and it would be widely disseminated. I would also expect it to be in the user manual, which it is not.

- Oh "still not a professional opinion" Shoot

[wjh2657]

Deep in my heart I know you are right and I will continue to do as I have (snap and load). I don't think I am going to get a rise from a tech type anyways. Nice chat.

[Oh Shoot]

Deep in my heart I know you are right and I will continue to do as I have (snap and load). I don't think I am going to get a rise from a tech type anyways. Nice chat.

Also, you know how the "advice" from the manufacturer runs:

Guns rated for +p, but they suggest you don't shoot them often. Gun jamming from using hollow points? Use ball. Jamming with ball? Use a different brand. "Oh, you weren't using that aluminum cased stuff, were you?" Your gun is almost certainly over or under lubed. "You probably haven't shot it enough to break it in" (the round count is variable). Some customer service agents sound like the worst of 'puter tech support.

Manuals can be a hoot: some warn against discharge from dropping with weapons that wouldn't fire if dropped from airplanes, etc. Heck, most manuals strongly state to never even store or transport a loaded weapon period. If you adhere to that, you'd couldn't even use their product as a SD weapon at all.

I'm surprised there is aren't disclaimers included like, "optimal operation from this weapon can be achieved by never loading or firing it".

- OS

[wjh2657]

Yup. That was why I was trying to get somebody from outside of the "company."

I wonder sometimes about how some of the posters on these forums treat their guns. There are so many "POS" brands out there that I have owned and proved to be reliable weapons. Then there are the "Wonder Guns" that never jam and never FTF that have proven to me to be real "POS!"

I have never had a Remington, Mossberg or NEF/H&R shotgun break on me or fail to function. I own several of each brand and probably always will. Of course, I clean and inspect my shotguns on a regular basis too.

[BigPoppa]

I'm surprised there aren't disclaimers included like, "optimal operation from this weapon can be achieved by never loading or firing it". - OS

[ttocswob]

Couple of other ideas:

I use a Tipton plastic snap cap in my 870, no issues w/ plastic residue for me. YMMV

I also made my own using spent shells; trimmed, paper filled, sealed w/ hot melt. My theory that an indented primer offers some more protection than snapping on an empty chamber. Used these to practice the "Clint Smith drill" on single shot break action, no problems. YMMV

I've read, but haven't tried: decapping spent shells and replacing primer w/ pencil eraser or hot melt glue.

Edited June 29, 2009 by ttocswob
added info, corrected

[Guest Mugster]

Yup. That was why I was trying to get somebody from outside of the "company."

I wonder sometimes about how some of the posters on these forums treat their guns. There are so many "POS" brands out there that I have owned and proved to be reliable weapons. Then there are the "Wonder Guns" that never jam and never FTF that have proven to me to be real "POS!"

I have never had a Remington, Mossberg or NEF/H&R shotgun break on me or fail to function. I own several of each brand and probably always will. Of course, I clean and inspect my shotguns on a regular basis too.

People in general tend to need to have to belong to something to make them feel good about what they are doing. Glocks were ridiculed and derided by the gun press when they first came out. Now, they are popular and there's more glock-o-philes than anything else it seems...see they all belong to the same little "glock ownership club". Same handgun. Glock was the keltec of the early 90's.

I think once you hit a certain population density, groupthink gets worse. The object with firearms is to hit what your aiming at with something big enough to get the job done, not to futz around with slogans and acronyms.

I took your original post at face value. Although I did think it was an odd question from an experienced man.

In my opinion, anything you can't dry fire is defectively engineered. Better you break it dry firing it and get rid of it than have something fall off or apart when you really need it to go bang.