Terror Watch List may soon = No Guns

[Guest justme]

Until the Gub-ment can PROVE you're a bonifide threat...and you have your day in court to sue the friggin pants off of em...HELL NO

they can call you a terrorist--and it is enough...no proof needed...simply declare you an enemy combatant and away to Gitmo you go...no rights, no ability to have your day in court--no nothing...

[TripleDigitRide]

they can call you a terrorist--and it is enough...no proof needed...simply declare you an enemy combatant and away to Gitmo you go...no rights, no ability to have your day in court--no nothing...

But it's no big deal until it happens to you or someone close to you.

[Guest jth_3s]

But it's no big deal until it happens to you or someone close to you.

Exactly!

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[Smith]

they can call you a terrorist--and it is enough...no proof needed...simply declare you an enemy combatant and away to Gitmo you go...no rights, no ability to have your day in court--no nothing...

Perhaps an example of a US citizen detained at Gitmo taken from US soil?

You continue to merge two different legal ideas. While I agree it would not take much to go from one to the other, the fact is it just isn't happening like you say.... or maybe I'm just blind sided by the Bilderberg propaganda and the Bush skull and Bones cronies.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Smith

[Guest justme]

Perhaps an example of a US citizen detained at Gitmo taken from US soil?

Jose Padilla....although not held at Gitmo, he was held for 4 years without access to any legal counsel, without access to his family, and on US soil at a US Naval brig in South Carolina--which actually is a lot worse..because he was on US Soil during his 4 yr detention in a military brig, being denied his rights under the Constitution...it took about 4 years for the feds to finally hand him over for trial in Miami--if that could even pass as a trial....

see the thing is--they already successfully denied one American his rights for over 4 years in a military brig on US Soil...how hard do you think it would be to do it to another?

You continue to merge two different legal ideas. While I agree it would not take much to go from one to the other, the fact is it just isn't happening like you say.... or maybe I'm just blind sided by the Bilderberg propaganda and the Bush skull and Bones cronies.

No, it is a single idea..and the Bush whitehouse made it easy for them to accomplish it.

As for Bilderberg group....I don't discount their existence. Neither do I just brush away the idea out of hand simply because it is made fun of in mainstreat media and movies....

[Guest justme]

But it's no big deal until it happens to you or someone close to you.

or to you...

[Smith]

No, it is a single idea..and the Bush whitehouse made it easy for them to accomplish it.

I keep hearing that yet it is harder today than it ever was before. Washington did it, Lincoln did it, FDR did it, ...... I'm with you on being alert, but it just isn't happening and nothing even close to what has happened in the past. I will continue to say it is harder now than ever to be hidden away without anyone knowing. Not that it can't be done mind you.

[K191145]

according to the last DHS memo weren't Christians, right to life, conservatives, and tea party protesters on the watch out list?

Which later on if some had it their way, all NRA members, all HPC holders etc. etc. We are all branded as right wing extreamists.

Time to write or Congressmen/women and U.S. Senators.

[K191145]

I would think that they would place people on that list who actually had associations with known proven terrorists like Bill Ayres.

Oops, that would include President Obama wouldn't it?

[Guest justme]

I keep hearing that yet it is harder today than it ever was before. Washington did it, Lincoln did it, FDR did it, ...... I'm with you on being alert, but it just isn't happening and nothing even close to what has happened in the past. I will continue to say it is harder now than ever to be hidden away without anyone knowing. Not that it can't be done mind you.

I have to disagree--It has already been done--there was 1 American held at Gitmo itself--the person we like to call Taliban Johnny, and then Jose Padilla being held without access to counsel, without access to anything--and on US soil, in a US naval brig--declared an enemy combatant.... The ability to declare anyone an enemy combatant is already there--the precedent has already been set....

As for what is happening now not being on the scale of the past---no, no open detention camps like on the scale of what occurred under FDR, but similar mobile facilities have been used by law enforcement during lawful demonstrations. I submit the illegal wiretapping that has and I would dare say still does occur, the use of the "Patriot Act" to find out what we read at the library, use of "national security" letters to demand bank records and so on...the secrecy is still there--and on a mass scale--as massive, if not more so than in the past.

history is replete with examples--and we all know about how we tend to repeat history.

[Guest justme]

Which later on if some had it their way, all NRA members, all HPC holders etc. etc. We are all branded as right wing extreamists.

Time to write or Congressmen/women and U.S. Senators.

Not long after the MIAC report was put out to law enforcement--a man in the midwest was stopped, illegally detained and questioned by the Oklahoma City police and then had the secret service (ss) sent to his house simply because he had an anti-obama decal on his car...

Anti-Obama Sticker Brings Secret Service, Cops Running | NBC New York

Feb 19, 2009

So much for free speech.

An Oklahoma City driver was pulled over by cops and visited by the Secret Service last week because of an anti-Obama sticker attached to the bumper of his vehicle, NewsOK.com reported.

The Oklahoma City Police Department officer who pulled over driver Chip Harrison thought the "Abort Obama, Not the Unborn" sticker on his car could be interpreted as a threat to the newest commander-in-chief.

The officer confiscated the sign and told Harrison that "abort" meant "to kill" -- and slapped Harrison with a piece of paper saying he was part of an official investigation.

After the officer left, Secret Service agents called Harrison and said they were at his house. When Harrison returned home, two agents were waiting with his wife and 2-year-old daughter.

The Secret Service left when they discovered no proof of any attempt to harm the President. "I pulled over, not knowing I'd done anything wrong," Harrison told NewsOK.com.

Harrison said the sign was simply his attempt to voice his disagreement with President Barack Obama's views on abortion.

"It's not a threat," Harrison said. OCPD Captain Steve McCool said confiscating the sign was a mistake. "That was [Harrison's] First Amendment right to voice his concern," McCool said.

Harrison is in contact with lawyers but is not sure if he will press charges, he said. The OCPD later returned the sign to Harrison.

the lesson here...dissent is wrong...dissent is equated with low level terrorism now....even the Pentagon says so...

[Guest mustangdave]

I'm not a proponent of gov't intrusion and abuse...but reading this stuff makes me wanna go get my tinfoil out....everyone SAFE your weapons ok?

[Guest justme]

I'm not a proponent of gov't intrusion and abuse...but reading this stuff makes me wanna go get my tinfoil out....everyone SAFE your weapons ok?

there is nothing to tinfoil hat about. I never wear one--I merely see the government for what it is-- it sees anyone who dissents as a potential terrorist....it is true. It is an established fact that the US government has held American citizens in military jails without access to counsel, without being charged, and one can reasonably believe under "interrogation". It is well established that the US government has spied illegally on its own citizens. It is well established now--that the Pentagon does equate people who dissent with low level terrorists. It is well established that the government can and does use "national security" letters to gather information about citizens, thus bypassing Constitutional safeguards, and that the "patriot act" can and does give the government broad, sweeping powers in order to demand your library records, financial information and other information about citizens, and I would dare say this is the tip of the iceberg. It is also well known that at least one American citizen was unlawfully detained and harassed by the TSA simply because he chose to not answer any questions--he chose to exercise his rights.

Where is the tin foil hatting? I have merely put out the facts--well established and well known---but we as a society simply choose to shove our heads in the sand and say "this could never happen here..."

[K191145]

there is nothing to tinfoil hat about. I never wear one--I merely see the government for what it is-- it sees anyone who dissents as a potential terrorist....it is true. It is an established fact that the US government has held American citizens in military jails without access to counsel, without being charged, and one can reasonably believe under "interrogation". It is well established that the US government has spied illegally on its own citizens. It is well established now--that the Pentagon does equate people who dissent with low level terrorists. It is well established that the government can and does use "national security" letters to gather information about citizens, thus bypassing Constitutional safeguards, and that the "patriot act" can and does give the government broad, sweeping powers in order to demand your library records, financial information and other information about citizens, and I would dare say this is the tip of the iceberg. It is also well known that at least one American citizen was unlawfully detained and harassed by the TSA simply because he chose to not answer any questions--he chose to exercise his rights.

Where is the tin foil hatting? I have merely put out the facts--well established and well known---but we as a society simply choose to shove our heads in the sand and say "this could never happen here..."

It doesn't take a tin foil hat for anyone to see how the federal government is running wildly out of control trampling the Constitution comitting hostile takeovers of banks and auto companies, passing legislation that no legislator even knows what it's about. The country's going to hell in a handbasket fast. We also know that the current far left socialist's who run the country have voted and sponsored extream anti-2nd amendment legislation in the past in their states and federally and we also know that they view us, the common people with disdain, as peasants to be controlled. So anything they say, do, sponsor, vote on, pass, should be viewed with the utmost distrust because we know it's not for our benifit or welfare, it's for their benifit and socialist agenda, power and control. It has nothing to do with wearing a tin foil hat, it's reality as you say.

[DaveTN]

If an American citizen has no disqualifying criminal background; they should be good to go.

If they are a foreigner and on the terrorist watch list; no guns for them. But don't they deport those people when they are found?

I don't buy into the tin foil hat's idea that this is some how government gun control. I do believe that any anti gun politician will use any idea they can come up with to stop people from buying guns.

[bullrider]

I don't have a problem with decisions based on facts and hard evidence, but decisions based on theory, speculation, and profiling are worthless, at best, and dangerous at worst. The is enough veiled tyranny coming out of Washington these days. We certaily don't need more of the same.