DHS - Active Shooter

[Guest SUNTZU]

DHS flipbook on what to do if there is an active shooter at your workplace.

http://www.lpinformation.com/Portals/0/DHS_ActiveShooter_FlipBook.pdf

(snip)

PROFILE OF AN ACTIVE SHOOTER

An Active Shooter is an individual actively engaged

in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined

and populated area; in most cases, active shooters

use firearms(s) and there is no pattern or method to

their selection of victims.

Active shooter situations are unpredictable and

evolve quickly. Typically, the immediate deployment

of law enforcement is required to stop the shooting

and mitigate harm to victims.

Because active shooter situations are often over

within 10 to 15 minutes, before law enforcement

arrives on the scene, individuals must be prepared

both mentally and physically to deal with an active

shooter situation.

Good practices for coping with an

active shooter situation

• Be aware of your environment and any

possible dangers

• Take note of the two nearest exits in any

facility you visit

• If you are in an office, stay there and

secure the door

• If you are in a hallway, get into a room

and secure the door

• As a last resort, attempt to take the active

shooter down. When the shooter is at

close range and you cannot flee, your

chance of survival is much greater if you

try to incapacitate him/her.

CALL 911

WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO!

Hmm, something seems to be missing from the coping with an active shooter list...:-\

[Guest RISC777]

...incapacitate him/her.

mmm hmmm

A few strategically placed hollow point .45 rounds is what that calls for.

And probably not as a last resort.

[poak]

As a last resort, attempt to take the active

shooter down. When the shooter is at

close range and you cannot flee, your

chance of survival is much greater if you

try to incapacitate him/her.

If only there was an affordable, small, yet powerful tool for this sort of situation

[Guest ajpadre]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

That has been my greatest concern if/when I get my carry license.

[bukowski548]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

Drop the gun and let them take you into custody. Keep telling them that the shooter is still inside and you were just defending yourself. Give any description of the shooter you have. You're going to sit in the back of a squad car until the event is over, but at least you're pretty safe.

buk

[Guest bkelm18]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

That has been my greatest concern if/when I get my carry license.

Would you still be waving your gun around when they arrive?

[Guest Phantom6]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

That has been my greatest concern if/when I get my carry license.

Maybe you mis-spoke but if this has truly been your "greatest concern", IMHO you have no business carrying a firearm. Your greatest concern outside of whether or not you can be sure that you have sights on the correct target should be:

· Can you develop a combat mindset to the point that you will not hesitate to pull the trigger on a threat and then be determined enough to continue the fight until either everything fades to black or you prevail?" Part of that and it is a part that you must consider ahead of time, will be an understanding of what to expect and living with the aftermath of possibly taking a life not only mentally and socially but maybe even legally as well.

· "In a 'white knuckle situation' such as this, when your a$$ is so tight that one would be hard pressed to drive a hat pin into it with a nine pound hammer, can you reliably hit your threat without killing your co-workers or other innocents in the vicinity? In a life and death situation you will undergo a certain set of severe psychological as well as physiological changes and you must know what they are and how to deal with them in order to accomplish what you must do to survive. The ability to retain as great a degree of situational awareness as possible is just one of many pieces of this puzzle. Situational awareness will include but not be limited to things like knowing who is an innocent, knowing where all the 'bad guys' are and knowing when the cops arrive and what to do.

There are many other things to be concerned about but they are too numerous to go into here. To understand them and deal with them requires training. Neither Tennessee's nor any other state's Handgun Carry Permit lesson plan covers these topics. FURTHER TRAINING IS REQUIRED to get through situations such as these unscathed either physically, emotionally or financially. Whether you get that training from our school or not, really doesn't matter though we would love to have you but you need to seek out reputable training programs somewhere and attend them as you can. A good book to begin your training with would be On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and Peace by Dave Grossman & Loren W. Christensen.

Yes, there are some on this board and elsewhere that will say that many of the folks you read about in the Armed Citizen section of American Rifleman or America's First Freedom didn't have all that training and they survived and that is certainly very true. They were lucky. Those articles don't discuss the mistakes of the unlucky ones; those that didn't survive. One such incident that immediately comes to mind is the fairly recent case of the business owner near Athens, TN that called 911 late one night reporting that he was calling from his business, had a thief proned out on the floor at gunpoint and to get the police there quickly. The cops arrived in short order only to find the business owner dead on the floor, shot to death. His gun had not been fired by the way. With proper training and it's implimentation, that man could have survived that night to go home to his family and have had an enjoyable Father's Day yesterday. He was neither good nor lucky.

ajpadre, please believe me when I tell you that it is not my intention to pick on you with my reply to your post but mearly point out that what my father attempted to drum into my head is still true- folks that FAIL to PLAN, whether they recognize it or not, PLAN to FAIL.

[Punisher84]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

That has been my greatest concern if/when I get my carry license.

I hear that from alot of cops as their reason for not wanting to allow students to carry. My question to them is always "Do you shoot every person you see with a gun?"

You survive first, then you sort out the details.

[Guest RISC777]

Have you guys ever thought about what happens if the cops arrive and think you are the shooter?

That has been my greatest concern if/when I get my carry license.

Protect yourself ... by taking out the threat. That entails dealing with stress, adrenaline, etc. while concentrating on shot placement. Stop the threat. That can result in killing the person. If you cannot do that - you shouldn't carry.

Law arrives ... do everything they say to do. Be ready to provide ID and HCP card (though a DL look-up will show you have one, but you need to have it on your person). State simply and briefly what you did when asked. Keep what you say short, simple, and as accurate as you can. Don't get flustered and change what you say. Law enforcement does have to sort through who is who - who was the threat, who legally protected themselves, etc.

[Guest ajpadre]

It seems to me that the panic of other people in your business/work/school/etc would cause them to point at YOU as the shooter. Obviously they (Law Enforcement) would conduct interviews and ask questions after the incident. When "most" people are under duress they are going to say the first thing they remember when asked by a Cop. And if the first thing is YOU holding a gun, that is what they will say...

Obviously I would rather carry and save my life & go to jail than die, but when push comes to shove, I would never put any faith in my coworkers for being able to identify who the "real" shooter was, when bullets are flying in either in direction.

But to be honest your right, I probably shouldn't carry. If was faced with two decisions... one being saving my co-workers and go to jail because I was falsely implicated OR run and save my own life even at the expense of the one around me, I would save myself. I am not going to jail for anyone.

Its too simple to say that when the cops show up and if you drop your gun you will be okay. What if the LEO has a itchy trigger finger? What if one of your co-workers thought YOU were the shooter and called 911 and gave them YOUR description as the assailant? It is still my greatest concern "Phantom6" because even I was to save my co-workers from certain death, only to do hard time because of it? I wouldn't have done it in the first place...

[Punisher84]

It seems to me that the panic of other people in your business/work/school/etc would cause them to point at YOU as the shooter. Obviously they (Law Enforcement) would conduct interviews and ask questions after the incident. When "most" people are under duress they are going to say the first thing they remember when asked by a Cop. And if the first thing is YOU holding a gun, that is what they will say...

Obviously I would rather carry and save my life & go to jail than die, but when push comes to shove, I would never put any faith in my coworkers for being able to identify who the "real" shooter was, when bullets are flying in either in direction.

But to be honest your right, I probably shouldn't carry. If was faced with two decisions... one being saving my co-workers and go to jail because I was falsely implicated OR run and save my own life even at the expense of the one around me, I would save myself. I am not going to jail for anyone.

Its too simple to say that when the cops show up and if you drop your gun you will be okay. What if the LEO has a itchy trigger finger? What if one of your co-workers thought YOU were the shooter and called 911 and gave them YOUR description as the assailant? It is still my greatest concern "Phantom6" because even I was to save my co-workers from certain death, only to do hard time because of it? I wouldn't have done it in the first place...

I think your concern is genuine, but I think you just lack education about alot of things. Police procedure, legal aspects, and the mindset of carrying a gun in general.

It seems you have this scenario of a mass shootout happening in your building, you tagging this guy, then wandering outside towards the police with blood on your shirt and a smoking gun dangling from your hands. Very dramatic way of putting it, but it's not gonna be like that.

If you do choose to protect others they are going to notice who started firing. If a random guy walks in and pulls a gun and starts firing I highly doubt they are going to just place the blame on you after the firefight.

You are also missing several important aspects of an investigation that would come out. Ballistic evidence, surveillance video from the workplace, it would get sorted out in that case.

In summary though, if your fear of going to jail or being improperly accused of using your gun, don't carry, you'll hesitate and you'll get yourself or someone else killed.

[Guest justme]

That manual was just not only but also

it is a sad reminder of what is being done with our tax dollars...

[Guest justme]

deleted

Edited June 27, 2009 by justme

[Guest Ggun]

I think your concern is genuine, but I think you just lack education about alot of things. Police procedure, legal aspects, and the mindset of carrying a gun in general.

It seems you have this scenario of a mass shootout happening in your building, you tagging this guy, then wandering outside towards the police with blood on your shirt and a smoking gun dangling from your hands. Very dramatic way of putting it, but it's not gonna be like that.

If you do choose to protect others they are going to notice who started firing. If a random guy walks in and pulls a gun and starts firing I highly doubt they are going to just place the blame on you after the firefight.

You are also missing several important aspects of an investigation that would come out. Ballistic evidence, surveillance video from the workplace, it would get sorted out in that case.

In summary though, if your fear of going to jail or being improperly accused of using your gun, don't carry, you'll hesitate and you'll get yourself or someone else killed.

Your last point, in summary, is very cogent advice. This last scenario played out just like this several months ago in Knoxville, leaving a young man dead. He pulled out a shotgun to protect others at his residence from drug thugs, but hesitated to pull the trigger and got gunned down.

[Punisher84]

Your last point, in summary, is very cogent advice. This last scenario played out just like this several months ago in Knoxville, leaving a young man dead. He pulled out a shotgun to protect others at his residence from drug thugs, but hesitated to pull the trigger and got gunned down.

It happens sadly. It goes back to that saying "If you carry a gun there is always at least one gun in the fight" and if you are afraid to use it, someone else may take it that will or will use their own in that gap of time you've just filled by doing nothing, but presenting yourself as a threat to the BG.

[Guest grimel]

A good book to begin your training with would be On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and Peace by Dave Grossman & Loren W. Christensen.

Pi$$ on Grossman. He is an elitist anti-gun POS.

Buy Mas Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme". Much better book by "one of us".

[Guest grimel]

It seems to me that the panic of other people in your business/work/school/etc would cause them to point at YOU as the shooter. Obviously they (Law Enforcement) would conduct interviews and ask questions after the incident. When "most" people are under duress they are going to say the first thing they remember when asked by a Cop. And if the first thing is YOU holding a gun, that is what they will say...

Obviously I would rather carry and save my life & go to jail than die, but when push comes to shove, I would never put any faith in my coworkers for being able to identify who the "real" shooter was, when bullets are flying in either in direction.

But to be honest your right, I probably shouldn't carry. If was faced with two decisions... one being saving my co-workers and go to jail because I was falsely implicated OR run and save my own life even at the expense of the one around me, I would save myself. I am not going to jail for anyone.

Its too simple to say that when the cops show up and if you drop your gun you will be okay. What if the LEO has a itchy trigger finger? What if one of your co-workers thought YOU were the shooter and called 911 and gave them YOUR description as the assailant? It is still my greatest concern "Phantom6" because even I was to save my co-workers from certain death, only to do hard time because of it? I wouldn't have done it in the first place...

Unless you have an idiot for a lawyer AND you are a babbling idiot there is very little chance of you going to jail for shooting a nutcase. The ballistic evidence alone would be enough to set you free unless you shot up a few of your co-workers (can anyone say carry a gun big enough to shoot well under stress??).

Get to a class. Get some GOOD training. Develop some confidence in your ability to shoot well under stress (competition may not be combat, but, looking like a tool in front of your friends and strangers provides a good bit of stress not to mention can help you find glitches in your gear. That means shooting the IPSC/IDPA matches with your carry gear in your carry locations (or as close as possible pocket carry last I check was forbidden).