Approaching Local Government officials about park carry?

Fallguy · June 25, 2009

you can start off by informing them that by banning legal carry in the parks, they are also making it against the law for off duty police and retired police to carry there as well. the LEOSA does not cover those persons.

Retired and out of state officers may not be able to carry in local parks if the are off-limits.

But I believe current, full-time, TN LEOs could still carry. No matter if they are off-duty and/or out of their jurisdiction.

39-17-1350 regulates LEO carry in TN, by TN officers and it states that LEOs can carry 24/7 on or off duty in TN except for a list of places and parks are no on that list.

July 1, 2009

Here below is an email message that is being circulated to local county commissioners and city council members in Anderson and Knox Counties. It is a well thought out, logical argument against the posting of city and county parks. This is a copy of the one that was sent to the Knoxville Mayor's office and to Knoxville council members as well as their campaign managers. Interestingly enough it has also been CC'd to the Lt. Governor's email address which is especially interesting because Knoxville's Mayor Haslem will face the Lt. Gov. as an opponent in the upcoming race for the governor's office. For those of you that don't know, Lt. Governor Ron Ramsey is PRO-GUN and may use this issue against Mayor Haslem especially since Haslem belonged to Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition but quietly bailed just before announcing his intentions to run for Governor. In any event, it is successfully swaying elected officials views regarding park carry.

It's author, Steve Meade of Oak Ridge, who is a gun rights activist on the national, state and local levels wrote it and has given me permission to post it here for others to use as a "track to run on" when communicating with their local leaders.

Guns in CityParks? An Open letter ...

Much is being said about a new law that allows state-licensed Handgun Carry Permit holders to retain their handguns... initially when entering all State Parks (and similar areas) and then in September when entering city and county parks that have not been posted by local authorities. This law and a new federal law allow permit holders to have their handguns in all federal parks and wildlife refuges February 2010. These laws seem crazy to some people, until they actually research what the laws actually do. They do not just open up our parks to people that feel like carrying guns there. They simply allow carefully screened and particularly law abiding persons, who are already licensed to carry handguns in Wal-Mart, Home Depot, McDonalds, Shoney's, liquor stores, malls, restaurants, on the street, and most places in public …to also retain them while in public parks. There are over 220,000 permit holders in Tennessee, about 12,000 in the City of Knoxville. Most folks don't even realize they are around ... because they simply don't cause any problems. In a recent presentation by TN Sen. Doug Jackson before the full Senate he noted that during all of 2008 only 12/10,000th of 1% of Tennessee's permit holders have been charged with criminal act that could (if convicted) require their permits to be revoked. Most of that tiny fraction were non-violent crimes and only a small fraction involved weapons. To keep a carry permit in Tennessee you have to live a pretty darn clean life...No drugs, No DUIs, No mental problems, No drinking problems, and even must pay your child support on time.

For local governments to understand the responsibility associated with posting parks against permit holders they first must understand that the posting being considered only applies to permit holders. It is and remains illegal for general members of the public to possess weapons at any park in the state - including state and federal parks. Parks on school property remain closed to permit holders, as in the past. The signs posted in the state parks will all stay right where they are. For state-owned areas the only change is that those signs will no longer apply to permit holders. Laws on using, displaying, or firing firearms are unchanged. When the law prohibiting weapons in parks was initially passed local parks were exempted from having to post because of the very significant cost. State parks are generally entered through a few well controlled gates which can be posted - and then with a couple signs at “key locations” inside…. they were done. Local parks on the other hand often do not have that nice entry control and the number of signs required to meet legal requirements could be very large. While the law allowing posting by the local governments does not specifically address it, other state law generally requires signs every 50 feet or so to post property without controlled entry. You have probably seen signs for “No Trespassing” or “No Hunting” displayed like that. Costs for cities could be substantial to erect and maintain required signs.

Then there is the constitutional wrinkle. The TN Constitution (as interpreted by the State Attorney General and the courts) allows laws restricting the “wearing of arms” only if they can be shown to “prevent crime”. With the U.S. government recently publishing in the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations a lengthy nation-wide study (including resolving 125,000 comments) which concluded that state-licensed handgun carry permit holders carrying their firearms in parks improves overall safety and reduces crime; and the U.S. Congress and the President passing a new law (Coburn Amendment) allowing permit holders to carry in all National Parks and Wildlife Refuges for the stated purpose of improving safety and preventing crime ; and the State legislature passing law to allow permit holders in all state and federal public parks, natural areas, historic parks, nature trails, campgrounds, forests, greenways, waterways or other similar public places that are owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof with the state purpose to prevent crime – it becomes very difficult to make a case that restricting permit holders in any park will prevent crime. While the State legislature did give local governments the power to post parks, they did not and can not authorize them to violate the state constitution. To post against otherwise legal possession of firearms by state-licensed permit holders they must show a compelling public purpose which includes preventing crime in order to meet the constitutional requirement.

Then there is the liability wrinkle. Case law across the nation up to the U.S. Supreme Court has held that when persons, companies, or government entities restrict the ability of citizens to defend themselves, and they know (or should have known) that criminal attack was foreseeable, that they become legally responsible for their safety and liable for any damages resulting. Our parks are often where crime occurs in Oak Ridge. Previous state law prevented permit holders from carrying in parks and that law presumed that doing so prevented crime. States are hard to sue because they have almost unlimited legal resources… for cities and counties that is not the case.

Even if cities eventually win, the cost could be great.

Then there is the common sense wrinkle – if all of the studies nation-wide demonstrate that allowing permit holders (not the general public) to retain the handguns which they legally carry almost anywhere else in the state (including malls, stores, restaurants, public streets; and all state or federal owned parks, natural areas, historic parks, nature trails, campgrounds, forests, greenways, waterways or other similar public places) why could one think these same finger-printed, background-checked, and proven safe and law-abiding individuals are going to go crazy in a local park. Experience has shown that while posting “No Guns” may be effective for keeping out law-abiding permit holders it has either no effect on criminals or may even attract them. The parks that are not posted … you will not be able to see any change except perhaps the expected drop in crime. Criminals avoid places where their victims or some law abiding citizen nearby may be armed.

And finally, the re-election wrinkle. Permit holders tend to be more politically active and vocal than the average citizen. By the next election there will be well over a 14,000 permit holders in the City of Knoxville. Elected officials that choose to vote for ordinances prohibiting their constitutionally protected (and legislature approved) right to self defense may expect to see those folks actively involved in their opponents campaigns. Your opponents will have the lists of every permit holder by zip code or city which are readily available on the internet. Try it yourself - just go to http://www.commercialappeal.com/data/gunpermits/ and type in a city name or a specific zip code, click on search, and you'll get the alphabetical listing of most of the permit holders. I say most, because I know a number of current permit holders that don't show up on the list. Also keep in mind that the TN Department of safety expects to issue at least 100,000 new permits this year alone. Permit holders tend to be more politically active and outspoken than most other voters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is having the desired effect on elected officials that have been contacted regarding this email. By changing the names of cities or counties mentioned and numbers of permit holders therein you can easily taylor it to fit the needs of your particular location. With a little bit of research and work, the Memphis Commie Appeal's posted data will give you the figures you need for your locatons.

It's going to take work on our part to keep the local city and county politicians from denying us what the state government has determined should be allowed us under our state's constitution. Send this letter or something like it to the commissioners and council members in your areas.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Phantom6
spelling

July 1, 2009

As an aside to my post above, I mentioned an organization co-chaired by New York City's Michael Bloomberg and Boston's Tom Menino called Mayors Coalition Against Illegal Guns. This organization has proven itself to not only be against illegal guns but against ANY guns in the hands of law abiding citizen as well as criminals.

In Tennessee there are three members of this organization who are apparantly proud to mark themselves as friends and supporters of the other members of this "club". They are David Shumaker of Bristol, Tom Beehan of Oak Ridge and A. C. Wharton of Shelby County. Scott O'Grady, a strong proponent of the Second Amendment, former NRA Board Member and Bosnian War Survivor (downed and rescued pilot) pointed out as he wrote in a guest blog on Townhall.com in February of this year that, "It's (Their) website says â€œAs Mayors, our highest responsibility is to enforce the law and to protect the people we serve,â€ however eight of their members find themselves in trouble with the law in their respective cities." Proud membership in this club, eh?

Stay on 'em folks. If your politicians don't support the Constitution of either the United States or the state of Tennessee they don't belong in a position of public trust. Work to boot 'em.

Fallguy · July 1, 2009

Great open letter!!

Wonder if Mr. Meade would allow others to modify it to fit their area and send it to other local politicians, papers?

Falcon1 · July 1, 2009

It's author, Steve Meade of Oak Ridge, who is a gun rights activist on the national, state and local levels wrote it and has given me permission to post it here for others to use as a "track to run on" when communicating with their local leaders....
This message is having the desired effect on elected officials that have been contacted regarding this email. By changing the names of cities or counties mentioned and numbers of permit holders therein you can easily taylor it to fit the needs of your particular location. With a little bit of research and work, the Memphis Commie Appeal's posted data will give you the figures you need for your locatons.

Great open letter!!
Wonder if Mr. Meade would allow others to modify it to fit their area and send it to other local politicians, papers?

It sounds like it's okay to change and use.

Fallguy · July 1, 2009

It sounds like it's okay to change and use.

LOL...well yes it does. I guess I just missed that. Thanks!

I have already drafted a copy to send to the Jackson, TN city council members.

July 2, 2009

Originally Posted by Phantom6
...post it here for others to use as a "track to run on" when communicating with their local leaders....

This message is having the desired effect on elected officials that have been contacted regarding this email. By changing the names of cities or counties mentioned and numbers of permit holders therein you can easily taylor it to fit the needs of your particular location. With a little bit of research and work, the Memphis Commie Appeal's posted data will give you the figures you need for your locatons.

Steve sent me this because he wanted it distributed as widely and quickly as possible so others could use a formula that works! There is no sense in reinventing the wheel.

.......Feel free to use it!........

July 2, 2009

this is the letter that i sent the mayor of chattanooga (HIS REPLY is the first letter )

Dear :M.T.

Chattanooga is one of the most livable communities in the nation and we owe that distinction to sound decisions and the dedication and hard work of thousands of citizens. Chattanooga has established a national and international reputation as the most transformed city in America and I am proud to have called Chattanooga my home for over 40 years.

While I respect your Constitutional right to bear arms, please know that as Mayor, I have taken an oath to protect the citizens of Chattanooga. Guns (permitted or otherwise) have never been allowed in city parks and we will do everything we can to ensure that this prohibition remains in effect. The Chattanooga Police Department, in conjunction with the City of Chattanoogaâ€™s Information Services Department, has installed a network of cameras that are being utilized to protect our parks. State-of-the-art technology allows police officers to remotely monitor the parks for criminal behavior and immediately respond to any situation.

This is not an issue that should divide our community. I respect your position and understand your concern but rest assured, I am in good company. Chattanooga Police Chief, Freeman Cooper and over 40 other Chiefs of Police from throughout the state of Tennessee (as well as the Governor) all agree that the need to ensure public safety outweighs the individuals need to bring a gun into a city park. Quite frankly, the posturing over and time spent on this matter is a distraction from more significant work that should be taking place in Tennesseeâ€™s General Assembly.

I hope you will continue to take advantage of the cityâ€™s many recreational facilities and I welcome you to join us as we continue to work towards the success of our community.

Sincerely,

Ron Littlefield

Mayor

Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:35 PM

To: Mayor of Chattanooga

Subject: park carry law

Mayor

Here not long ago the state passed a law that would let law-abiding permit holders to carry a gun in state , county and also city parks.We as permit holders were very happy that the state passed this law, but I was very disappointed to hear that you have decided to opt-out of this law that was passed by the general assembly by a large number of votes. I feel like if the city goes tru with this it will create a confusing patchwork of laws that will close off local parks to law-abiding permit holders, who simply wish to be able to protect themselves and their families.I wish that you as the Mayor of this great city would change your mind about opting-out and let us be able to protect ourselves and our families.

Thank you for reading this email I would love to hear that you will change your mind.

Sincerely:

M.T.

________________________________

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

July 9, 2009

For those of you in the knoxville area that would like to send a message to all of the city council members, here are their email addresses along with that of the Mayor and his administrative assistant. Unfortunately, Councilman Booker has not joined the rest of modern society and therefore has no email address.

Send 'em a message and let them know how you feel regarding park carry. Use any or all of the Guns in CityParks? An Open letter ... that I posted earlier in this thread on 07/01/09. Remind them of ALL of the wrinkles the city will face in declaring parks off limits to carry permit holders but especially the re-election wrinkle. BTW, these councilpeople have already received that exact letter so try to personalize it a bit.

Mayor Bill Haslam -

mayor@cityofknoxville.org

Barbara Pelot -

rpeolt@aol.com

Chris Woodhull - Chriswoodhull@bellsouth.net

Joe Hultquist - Joseph49@bellsouth.net

Bob Becker - bob@bobbecker.org

Joe Bailey - JDBailey@cityofknoxville.org

Marilyn Roddy - MRoddy@cityofknoxville.org

Rob Frost - robfrostcitycouncil@comcast.net

Steve Hall - InteriorFinishes@msn.com

Cindy Mitchell -