Williamson County to opt-out of allowing HCP in Parks

[threeshot]

Gun debate passes to county, cities | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

By Mitchell Kline • THE TENNESSEAN • June 19, 2009

FRANKLIN — State lawmakers have put local officials on the hot seat with the recent passage of a law allowing guns to be carried in public parks.

The legislation, which was signed into law last week by the governor, immediately opens state-owned parks to people who have handgun carry permits. Municipalities have until Sept. 1 to opt out of the new provision and ban guns from their own parks.

State officials had considered a bill that would have exempted locally governed parks from the new gun law, but went forward with language that includes counties and cities. The final bill passed by a vote of 54-41 in the House and 24-8 in the Senate, with one lawmaker choosing not to vote.

"This thing turned 180 degrees," said County Commission Chairman Houston Naron Jr. "What I'm going to be doing now is reviewing it and getting with the appropriate people to see what direction we want to take. The biggest issue overall that makes this something we've got to give careful consideration to is this is involving children."

There are more than 45 parks overseen by the county and city governments in Williamson County. These include places with athletic fields, walking trails, Civil War sites and open wooded or grassy areas. If local officials take no action, then handgun carry permit holders can pack heat while watching baseball games, hiking or strolling by playgrounds.

Few are ready to weigh in

Many city and county officials declined to give their opinion on the matter when contacted by The Tennessean this week. Some said it's too early to pick a side. Others, like County Commissioner Mary Mills, said they didn't have an opinion either way. But it's likely most local officials will have to make a decision one way or the other.

"It's a hard question to answer," said Corey Napier, an alderman in Thompson's Station, which oversees one park. "I haven't polled anybody. Intuitively, when you think about bringing a gun to a place that's almost by definition geared toward children, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to condone it. But on the other hand, I know of a lot of law-abiding citizens who do have guns."

County Commissioner Lewis Green said he understands why some of his colleagues want to keep their opinions on guns to themselves. Green was threatened with political retribution when he sponsored a resolution that would have prohibited guns in all county-owned buildings. Green said the whole thing started when county officials requested signs prohibiting weapons from libraries. He pulled the resolution off an agenda last September and said he'd never propose a gun ban again.

"Before the ink was dry on that, my phone started ringing," Green said. "Most were congenial and explained their situation. I told them my intent was to pull the resolution. Some of the e-mails were like, 'You are threatening your position.' Some said, 'Hey, you will lose the next election.'"

Green said that while he won't be the one to sponsor a resolution banning guns from county-owned parks he'd vote in favor of the ban. He said the county's elected officials should prepare to receive comments on the issue.

"We're going to hear from the gun people," Green said. "I think it's another chink in the right to carry a gun type thing."

There are more than 5,298 handgun carry permit holders in the county, according to the state's Department of Safety.

Children's presence is concern

County Mayor Rogers Anderson, who called himself a "Second Amendment man," said he's got questions about the new law. Anderson said it's unclear if local governments could apply a gun ban to a selected group of parks, but not all. He also asks whether a park near or on school grounds would fall under the law.

"I think a lot of those issues are going to come out," Anderson said. "It needs to be discussed and it needs to be out there. It will be challenged."

Anderson said he doesn't think children and weapons go together.

Franklin officials plan on discussing the matter next month, according to Mayor John Schroer. There are 10 parks overseen by Franklin, including Jim Warren Park, Pinkerton Park and the soon to open Park at Harlinsdale Farm. The city bans firearms from all its parks and Schroer said that shouldn't change.

"Personally, I think there's no place for guns in our city parks," Schroer said. "Our parks are mostly child-active parks. I just don't think guns need to be part of the scenario. You can't carry a gun into a school. I see the park issue as the same as schools."

But Franklin Alderman Dana McLendon sees a difference in the uses of the city's parks.

"I can understand not wanting to have handguns at ball fields where, in my view, the possibility of even justifying a handgun is relatively remote," he said.

But McLendon said he supports allowing park visitors to carry guns at the passive parks, such as the 200-acre Park at Harlinsdale Farm or the Eastern Flank of the Battle of Franklin park, where there may be fewer people around and where there may be a greater possibility that someone "might lurk on the walking trails at Harlinsdale."

Franklin Police Chief Jackie Moore and parks Director Lisa Clayton declined to talk about guns in parks. City Administrator Eric Stuckey said it's an issue "that concerns us."

Brentwood City Manager Mike Walker expressed a similar sentiment, saying he's looking at all options. Mayor Betsy Crossley said she's thought about it "a lot of different ways." Crossley said the Second Amendment is "important, but is it appropriate for our parks?"

Brentwood Commissioner Anne Dunn said it's an issue where many people will disagree with the "application of the law." Dunn said she believes people have the right to protect themselves and legally carry guns, but isn't sure guns should be carried in places where children might be playing.

Brentwood Police Chief Ricky Watson said state lawmakers should have worded the bill differently so local governments wouldn't have to make the decision to opt out. He doesn't see it as a law enforcement issue, but said he doesn't believe guns are necessary in city parks.

"I don't want to get into a big discussion on it," Watson said.

Chief urges 'common sense'

Spring Hill Police Chief John Smith said he plans to share his opinions on the new law at an upcoming city meeting.

"The Tennessee Chiefs Association was opposed to this legislation just as we were opposed to guns in restaurants," Smith said. "I think common sense should prevail."

Smith said he's a firm believer in the right for citizens to bear arms, but has to look at public safety. He said he's sure most people would not feel the need to bring a gun to a city park, but he worries about the possibility that some would.

"Like anything else, there's the element of the unknown," he said. "Why provide an environment for a tragedy to happen when you don't have to?"

Fairview Mayor Ken Brison said it may be a moot point in his city, which oversees just one park — the 722-acre Bowie Nature Park.

"I believe that under the conservation easement we signed, Bowie Park don't allow guns, period," Brison said. "I know the deed had restrictions about having guns."

Fairview Commissioner Toney Sutton, a correctional officer at the County Jail, said he sees no need for people to carry a gun into any public park where children may be present.

"I am pro gun," Sutton said. "I believe everybody should own one to protect their family. But where's it going to stop?"

Sutton said law enforcement officers are trained not to fire at "the bad guy" if there's even a chance a bullet could strike an innocent bystander.

"Not many people have that kind of training," Sutton said.

Additional Facts

How they voted in Nashville How your state officials voted on the final version of the guns in parks bill.

Sen. Jack Johnson

(R-Franklin) — yes

Rep. Glen Casada

(R-Franklin) — yes

Rep. Phillip Johnson

(R-Pegram) — no

Rep. Charles Sargent

(R-Franklin) — no

Source: www.capitol.tn.gov

Edited June 19, 2009 by threeshot

[BrandonTN]

No offense, but I am getting so sick of seeing "its best for the children" card played. Are children not a concern in the hundreds of other places I am legally allowed to carry, both public and private? I guess a lot of people forget about robberies, explicit sexual activity, drug use, etc that occur in parks as well. People are going to be exposed to other activities at parks aside from soccer games, jungle gyms and pretty flowers. At least some people in Williamson are giving this second thoughts and considering both sides. My parents live in Williamson County and I will be contacting local officials explaining my viewpoints.

Edited June 19, 2009 by BrandonTN

[-boatman-]

"Brentwood Police Chief Ricky Watson said state lawmakers should have worded the bill differently so local governments wouldn't have to make the decision to opt out."

He is correct. They should have included them all without the opt out but that probably would not have passed.

[Guest ScottD]

I so sick of hearing, so HCP's can pack heat.

[Guest HexHead]

At least the Williamson County folks seem to be willing to give the appearance of some thought as to which parks should be posted or not. Unlike the Metro douchebags and their knee jerk blanket ban.

Even Bredesen, in his letter to Speaker Williams expressed some discretion should be used, especially with parks near schools or where large numbers of children congregate. He didn't endorse just a blanket ban on all local parks.

[threeshot]

Franklin Alderman Dana McLendon said the Tennessean misquoted him.

Tennessean quote shown below:

But Franklin Alderman Dana McLendon sees a difference in the uses of the city's parks.

"I can understand not wanting to have handguns at ball fields where, in my view, the possibility of even justifying a handgun is relatively remote," he said.

Revised quote:

tennessean.com | Nashville PluckPersona | The Tennessean

I was misquoted in this article. What I said was, "it is difficult to imagine an event justifying the use of a handgun" at our parks with ball fields.

[Falcon1]

Local politicians are afraid of having to take a stand. The law has shielded them from doing this for years. Now, it doesn't. They know the numbers of permit holders are growing, and they know that, depending on their margin of victory in their last election, they risk angering a highly motivated segment of the electorate that may just help "un-elect" them in the next cycle. They must fish or cut bait, and they are whining over it.

[Guest ProguninTN]

Hopefully, this will be defeated. I do recall when Commissioner Green's proposal to post all county-owned properties was tabled after the commission received much opposition to the proposal.

[Hershmeister]

it is truly astonishing how many elected official and law enforcement personnel will say they support gun rights and then follow that up with a BUT and then a statement about how a particular circumstance doesnt qualify. Either you Support the 2nd Amendment or you DON'T. Its one of the most clearly written laws in our country, and the ONLY way to change it is through a Consitutional Amendment ratified by 3/4 of the states, not though a city council.

[threeshot]

Guns in parks issue complex at county level | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Guns in parks issue complex at county level

School use could be factor in ban

By Kevin Walters • THE TENNESSEAN • June 28, 2009

FRANKLIN — Williamson County leaders might feel anxious about the state's recent move to legalize the possession of handguns in public parks, but they're not willing to support any resolution to prohibit guns in county-owned parks — at least not yet.

With 14 members of the 24-member County Commission on hand, commissioners on Thursday walked away without calling for a resolution that would make it illegal for gun owners to bring handguns into county parks.

Come Sept. 1, state law will allow gun owners who have permits to carry handguns into public parks. But local governments can forbid them, but only if leaders cast a majority vote against the new law.

The County Commission is the first municipality within Williamson County to discuss the matter in an official forum. Individual cities also have the option to opt out of the state law.

Houston Naron Jr., chairman of the County Commission, said commissioners have until noon on July 13 to file a resolution on the matter in time for the commission's monthly meeting that evening. He called for Thursday's meeting of members of three county committees to discuss the issue.

Even among county leaders who are gun owners, the matter remains a difficult one.

Naron, who calls himself a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, said, "The difficulty I have is the very fact that guns and kids don't mix."

Those concerns were echoed by fellow gun owner Doug Hood, who is director of Parks and Recreation for the county. Hood said he's spoken with other parks directors, all of whom were opposed to the measure.

"I'm very much opposed to this," Hood said.

Most county parks include sports fields or other active features, though passive parks are under development along the Natchez Trace and a passive park is planned for the Franklin Springs area west of Leiper's Fork.

Meantime, Williamson County Mayor Rogers Anderson is researching how many county parks also used by county schools would be affected by the law. It would appear to be illegal for handguns to be permitted on properties either owned by school districts or used by schools.

If commissioners do not vote on the resolution, it would take effect Sept. 1.

County commissioners do not have a scheduled meeting in August.

Franklin officials will discuss the law during their July 14 meeting.

[threeshot]

Guns in parks provision stirs divisive debate | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

It should say that the localities are opting IN to OPEN SEASON on PARK GOERS for criminals.

[Fivestring63]

I really don't have a problem with the opting-out thing. If your local officials want to do that at the parks and such, then vote them out and get it changed. If businesses want to post no guns, fine. Then don't go there.

What I'm really against is an outright ban by the state saying permit holders can't carry at this place or that place. I say make carrying legal everywhere and make your local officials or business owners decide if they want to post no guns or not.

[threeshot]

Resolution would ban guns in Williamson County parks | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

By Kevin Walters • The Tennessean • July 6, 2009

A new resolution seeks to bar gun owners from bringing weapons to any Williamson County-owned park, trail or historic site.

Beginning Sept. 1, handgun owners who have carry permits can bring their guns to all local parks in Tennessee, unless leaders in local governments choose to ban them. The General Assembly passed the new law a few weeks ago.

But the resolution sponsored by County Commissioners Mary Brockman, Mary Mills and Judy Hayes would prevent gun owners from bringing their guns to all public parks owned and operated by Williamson County. That would include nature trails, waterways, greenways, historic parks and other similar places.

The issue will be discussed at 5 p.m. tonight at a meeting of the county Property Committee, at the Williamson County Administrative Complex in Franklin.

The entire board of county commissioners will vote on the matter July 13.

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Williamson officials keep silent on gun-ban question | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

By Kevin Walters • THE TENNESSEAN • July 7, 2009

FRANKLIN — For the third time in two weeks, Williamson County commissioners refused to speak about whether handguns should be banned in county parks.

A resolution sponsored by Commissioners Mary Brockman, Mary Mills and Judy Hayes would prevent gun owners from bringing their guns to all public parks owned and operated by Williamson County. That would include nature trails, waterways, greenways, historic parks and similar places.

Beginning Sept. 1, handgun owners who have carry permits can bring their guns to all local parks in Tennessee, unless leaders in local governments choose to ban them.

But on Monday a group of commissioners sent the resolution to the full, 24-member board of commissioners without any recommendation and only limited discussion.

"I'm surprised," said Brockman, chairwoman of the county property committee, about the reticence of her fellow commissioners. "I thought the information has been very persuasive".

Parks chief speaks out

Last week, commissioners serving on the budget committee also forwarded the resolution to the full commission without any vote. Back on June 25, 14 commissioners declined to vote at all on the matter.

No commissioner spoke in favor of allowing guns in parks, though discussion centered around allowing guns at some parks and not in others. Commissioners also discussed whether they would allow guns at future parks, such as a 200-acre "springs" property near Leiper's Fork.

County Parks Director Doug Hood spoke out passionately on the matter, saying allowing guns to be brought to county parks will create burdens on park and law enforcement staff. County Sheriff Jeff Long has opposed allowing guns in county parks.

"I'm a gun owner, but I just don't understand," Hood said. "We're leaving out the thing that you fund the most and the thing you care about the most — our schoolchildren. I've been here almost 20 years, and that's who gets funded first."

County schools use many county parks, mostly for athletics. Allowing guns at those parks would create a conflict with the county schools, where guns are not allowed, said Jason Golden, schools attorney.

Hood said that allowing guns in parks could require county officials to spend $20 million or more to create new sports facilities specifically for school use where guns would not be allowed.

When county commissioners vote Monday morning, they will be the first legislative body in Williamson County to vote on the matter. Brentwood officials are expected to take up the matter Monday evening, and Franklin leaders will follow suit Tuesday night.

[Mike]

F***ing BullS**t....

[threeshot]

^^^ That is not going to help.

The issue I have is that the commissioners are keeping their cards close to the vest until they vote on the opt-out on July 13th.

There is no opportunity to clarify the facts or debate this issue(s) to those commissioners that would vote to opt-out.

[jughead]

it is the same with restaurants they dont want to take a stand they want the state to do it for them. they all have an out but they dont like it.

[Mark A]

So I'm pretty new to Williamson County and haven't been through an election here yet. I'm assuming the sheriff is an elected position. How has this sheriff been on 2a issues in general?

When is he due for re-election?

Lastly, who hires the parks director? Maybe we need to get in touch with his boss. I'm betting that person is also elected...

Mark

[Guest redbarron06]

So I'm pretty new to Williamson County and haven't been through an election here yet. I'm assuming the sheriff is an elected position. How has this sheriff been on 2a issues in general?

When is he due for re-election?

Lastly, who hires the parks director? Maybe we need to get in touch with his boss. I'm betting that person is also elected...

Mark

I asked almost the same question on a forum when all of the CLEOs stood behind the mayor when he vetoed the restraunt bill. Next thing I know the forum is asking questions and we got attacked by that jerk Serpas in Nashville.

[threeshot]

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090712/COUNTY090101/907120321/1164/COUNTY09/Leaders%20take%20up%20gun%20issue%20as%20opposing%20sides%20cite%20personal%20safety?GID=0

Leaders take up gun issue as opposing sides cite personal safety

By Kevin Walters • and Bonnie Burch • July 12, 2009

FRANKLIN —A hotheaded parent wields a pistol during an argument at a ball game. Or, a masked man catches an unarmed jogger alone on a park trail with disastrous results.

They're the two worst-case scenarios no one on either side of the debate over allowing guns in Williamson County parks wants to happen.

But those are the potential ramifications that guns-in-parks supporters and detractors contend could occur, depending on how the cities and county's elected leaders vote.

Decisions could start to come Monday, when the Williamson County Commission and the Brentwood City Commission vote separately on whether they will opt out of a new state law allowing gun owners with permits to carry their handguns to local parks. The law is set to go into effect Sept. 1.

Franklin Mayor John Schroer and city aldermen will discuss a resolution banning guns in city parks on Tuesday evening, with a vote to follow later this month. Spring Hill leaders will likely vote later this summer on that city's stance.

A survey by reporters from The Tennessean found opposition to allowing guns in local parks from local law enforcement and top elected leaders. County Sheriff Jeff Long along with police chiefs of Franklin, Brentwood and Spring Hill are all against the state law.

Franklin Mayor John Schroer and Brentwood Mayor Betsy Crossley, who has a permit to carry a handgun, each support a ban of guns in local parks.

Crossley said she came to the conclusion to prohibit firearms in all nine city parks, greenways and trails after discussing whether that would also prohibit school children from using these outdoor areas.

"I think we have a very safe city," she said. "Although you can never discount what could happen and I'm a very Second Amendment rights person, I think we've got to allow kids to use our parks. And if we didn't opt out, the schools couldn't be in our parks."

Confusion, costs are factors

The question of how the new law might impact the county school system remains a potentially expensive decision that's left county commissioners puzzled.

For example, Woodland Middle School uses the softball fields in the city's Crockett Park while Brentwood High School plays on the ball fields at Granny White Park.

If the new law takes effect without Brentwood opting out, neither school would be allowed to use those facilities because handgun owners could bring their guns to those parks. According to state and federal regulations, schools cannot use facilities where guns are allowed.

The county would then need to buy more land to build new, separate parks exclusively for school use.

The prospects of doing that could cost Williamson County as much as $30 million, according to estimates from county officials.

"I just think it's something that nobody thought through," said Lisa Carson, county attorney, about the state lawmakers' decision to pass the law this year.

County Parks Director Doug Hood, who also is a gun owner, is adamantly against allowing guns in parks because of safety questions, the potential expense and confusion the new law would create among thousands of volunteers.

"I have not talked to one person who said that they think this was a good idea," Hood said.

Through Carson, Sheriff Jeff Long has said he is opposing guns in parks. He could not be reached directly for contact.

Leaders caught in quandary

Though a handful of elected officials do have carry permits, only Franklin Ward 2 Alderman Dana McLendon has spoken up in favor of allowing guns at some city parks, such as the Franklin's passive parks.

"It's become the third rail of local politics," said McLendon about the hesitancy of some to speak in favor of the new law.

County commissioners have met three times to discuss guns in parks with little discussion and no support for having guns in parks.

Commissioner Mary Brockman, who is sponsoring a resolution banning guns in county parks, was puzzled why Hood's arguments didn't elicit more vocal support to ban guns in parks.

"For some reason, on this issue, they're not swaying the membership the way they normally do," Brockman said.

Several county commissioners who are listed in public records as having handgun carry permits could not be reached for comment for this story.

County Commissioner Reba Greer, who has a handgun carry permit, said she remains uncertain about how she'll vote on the matter until more information about the impact of the law continues to come to light.

"I'm keeping an open mind until Monday morning," Greer said.

Ward 1 Alderman Bev Burger owns guns and says she's in the process of getting a carry permit. Yet she's torn about how she's going to vote on the issue. Franklin aldermen will vote on the matter at their July 28 meeting.

"It's going to be very difficult for me because I do believe it's a freedom issue," Burger said. "Our freedoms are being eroded every single day."

As for public response, Burger says e-mails from residents are three-to-one in favor of allowing guns in city parks.

Meantime, McLendon says fears about what might happen if handgun-permit holders brought their guns to local parks are overblown.

"I think that the same hyperbole is being raised now that was raised 12-15 years ago when the permit law became effective: blood in the streets and Wild West shoot-outs," McLendon said. "As we know from 12-15 years of experience, that didn't happen."

Parks are routinely safe

Franklin police say they dealt with 87 reported offenses in Franklin's city parks from 2006 to 2008. Offenses included vandalism against the parks, disorderly conduct and DUI arrests.

Of that number, 21 were committed against individuals — mostly property crimes. Only three were crimes committed by suspects who did not know their victims, police said.

Crimes included a 2006 assault when one softball player refused to shake hands with another, and four incidents in 2008 that included two robberies, one committed with an air gun, and two aggravated assaults involving juveniles. One of those arguments involved children armed with a hatchet and a knife and a second where older children were scaring younger ones with PVC pipe and knives.

The biggest concern among officials is what might happen if guns

were present at sporting events.

"Many of our parks are host to a variety of competitive sporting events, where passions and tempers have the tendency to flare from time to time," said Franklin Police Chief Jackie Moore. "Adding weapons to that equation could conceivably result in an avoidable tragedy."

Chad Story, Franklin resident, said the matter comes down to individual responsibility.

"Do not deny people the ability of self-protection because of unfounded fears and criticism," Story told aldermen. "To lump law-abiding citizens in the same category of the individuals that do not abide by the law is highly presumptuous and the people of this county deserve better than assumptions."

Meantime, Spring Hill Police Chief John Smith said he plans to urge city leaders to prohibit guns in parks, possibly in August because he may be out of town Monday for the Board of Mayor and Aldermen's work session.

"I think they know my position on it and hopefully they'll agree to it," he said. "We're definitely going to push the issue."

Keith Hudson, the board's representative on the city's Parks and Recreation Commission, said he plans to back Smith at that future meeting. He said he's heard mostly from mothers on the issue and they want guns prohibited at parks.

"I'm for the Second Amendment, but I think when we look at putting guns in parks, it really takes away from the calm, free-spiritedness we want at parks," Hudson said.

Thompson's Station may also discuss the matter in August, since its board of mayor and aldermen do not have a meeting scheduled for this month. Alderman Corey Napier has said it's a decision the board would want wide community input on before deciding.

Fairview Mayor Ken Brison said his city, which oversees only the 722-acre Bowie Nature Park, does not have to deal with the issue.

"I believe that under the conservation easement we signed, Bowie park doesn't allow guns, period," Brison said. "I know the deed had restrictions about having guns."