Challenge "Guns-in-bars" Law: Nashville attorneys David Randolph Smith & Adam Dread

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

**THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARD ANYONE SPECIFIC**

But you know.....if members of this board, where literally second-by-second coverage of this bill occurred and where thousands of post have been made on the topic, still are not sure of what exactly passed....maybe we do need to do a better job of educating the media and even more importantly the people that are simply eating what the media is feeding them......

You have a valid point FallGuy - but will the media listen?

[Fallguy]

You have a valid point FallGuy - but will the media listen?

I'm afraid you have a valid point as well.

However at least on a one-on-one basis we have a good chance.

I think I posted about an old friend of mine that called me when the Senate overrode the veto. He was all fired up, he had been listening to the media and literally thought people were going to be "bellying up to the bar and drinking" while armed. Once I explained to him what the bill actually did, he did a complete 180 and was all for it.

[Guest Doc44]

Just heard a piece of news on TV this morning... inbetween all the M. Jackson stuff... about some guy in Nashville trying to get up something to stop the passed law "GUNS IN BARS". Some restaurant owners saying they feared for the safety of their employees and then something about a coalition to hold up the law before July 14 and then something about the public voting on it.

Cannot find anything else about it on the tube... just THRILLER.

Anyone know what this all about?

Has something new been added to their push or is this just channel 5 stirring old trash to continue the stink?

Doc44

Edited June 27, 2009 by Doc44

[Worriedman]

**THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARD ANYONE SPECIFIC**

But you know.....if members of this board, where literally second-by-second coverage of this bill occurred and where thousands of post have been made on the topic, still are not sure of what exactly passed....maybe we do need to do a better job of educating the media and even more importantly the people that are simply eating what the media is feeding them......

Excellent point.

I have been seeking to get guest spots on local talk radio. Have been successful with The Frankie Lax Show on WTJS 105.3 and Dan Reaves on 101.5.

Both are willing to help get the truth of the laws out, and allowing the listeners to hear the facts.

[Fallguy]

Excellent point.

I have been seeking to get guest spots on local talk radio. Have been successful with The Frankie Lax Show on WTJS 105.3 and Dan Reaves on 101.5.

Both are willing to help get the truth of the laws out, and allowing the listeners to hear the facts.

I heard a commercial about the The Frankie Lax show on the way in to work this morning. I did think about trying to call in to him one time, sort of figured he would be on our side.

[-boatman-]

Excellent point.

I have been seeking to get guest spots on local talk radio. Have been successful with The Frankie Lax Show on WTJS 105.3 and Dan Reaves on 101.5.

Both are willing to help get the truth of the laws out, and allowing the listeners to hear the facts.

When are you going to be on? I will try to listen in. I do listen to both those shows when I am around a radio.

[Worriedman]

Next time is the Frankie Lax Show on June the 30th. Kind of doing double duty, set to prompt for the Tea Party on the 4th, (I am doing the Section on 2nd Amendment) as well as do an update on Legislation and Q&A.

[threeshot]

Restaurateur ready to challenge ?Guns in bars? | Nashville City Paper: Nashville's Online Source for Daily News

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 at 2:45pm

Nashville Attorney David Randolph Smith officially will file a lawsuit Wednesday challenging the guns in bars legislation passed by state Legislators a few weeks ago.

Smith plans to file the suit at 10 a.m. in Chancery Court in the Metro Davidson Courthouse on behalf of 10 Tennessee citizens with Nashville restaurateur Randy Rayburn as the lead plaintiff.

Rayburn, owner of the Sunset Grill, Midtown Café and Cabana, along with 9 others is suing the State of Tennessee (Attorney General as defendant), challenging the legality and constitutionality of Public Chapter 339 which permits the carrying of loaded concealed firearms by permit holders into all restaurants and bars that serve alcohol.

The suit is asking for a temporary restraining order and temporary and permanent injunction to stop the law from taking effect on July 14.

The plaintiffs will allege that the bill is illegal on eight counts. Among them being, that the law is an unlawful public nuisance that threatens the life, health and safety of the public, as well as violating due process and increasing civil liability for the restaurants.

Plaintiffs claim it also violates Tennessee's Occupational Safety and Health Act that expressively requires as a matter of federal and state law that employers provide a safe work place for employees. While a permit holder cannot drink alcohol while carrying a loaded weapon in a bar or restaurant, the new law doesn’t stop that person from having previously consumed alcohol.

[E4 No More]

Restaurateur ready to challenge ?Guns in bars? | Nashville City Paper: Nashville's Online Source for Daily News

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 at 2:45pm

Nashville Attorney David Randolph Smith officially will file a lawsuit Wednesday challenging the guns in bars legislation passed by state Legislators a few weeks ago.

Smith plans to file the suit at 10 a.m. in Chancery Court in the Metro Davidson Courthouse on behalf of 10 Tennessee citizens with Nashville restaurateur Randy Rayburn as the lead plaintiff.

Rayburn, owner of the Sunset Grill, Midtown Café and Cabana, along with 9 others is suing the State of Tennessee (Attorney General as defendant), challenging the legality and constitutionality of Public Chapter 339 which permits the carrying of loaded concealed firearms by permit holders into all restaurants and bars that serve alcohol.

The suit is asking for a temporary restraining order and temporary and permanent injunction to stop the law from taking effect on July 14.

The plaintiffs will allege that the bill is illegal on eight counts. Among them being, that the law is an unlawful public nuisance that threatens the life, health and safety of the public, as well as violating due process and increasing civil liability for the restaurants.

Plaintiffs claim it also violates Tennessee's Occupational Safety and Health Act that expressively requires as a matter of federal and state law that employers provide a safe work place for employees. While a permit holder cannot drink alcohol while carrying a loaded weapon in a bar or restaurant, the new law doesn’t stop that person from having previously consumed alcohol.

The simple inaction of not deploying metal detectors at the door to stop illegal carrier is also not complying with that law. Should there be another law to require metal detectors, or should the state go around levying fines against those who don't use them currently?

[Guest HexHead]

I really wish I hadn't shaved this morning now. Between this and that leftist asshat Franken going to get seated in the Senate, I would have been two days closer to becoming Taliban.

[Fallguy]

In the end...I really don't feel this lawsuit has much merit...but then again it doesn't really matter what I think.

The biggest think I'd had to see is an injunction.

[Guest benchpresspower]

I don't see how this can hold up in court. No where in the law does it say they cannot post. Douchebags unite!!

[Guest HexHead]

In the end...I really don't feel this lawsuit has much merit...but then again it doesn't really matter what I think.

The biggest think I'd had to see is an injunction.

You just know they'll find some leftist nutjob judge that will put an injunction on it, probably over the employee issue, just like how National Park Carry got derailed.

I'm done giving a crap about the law if this goes forward.

[Guest HexHead]

Here's a more detailed version from the Tennessean...

Randy Rayburn to file suit challenging guns-in-bars law

PUBLISHED BY RYAN UNDERWOOD ON JUNE 30, 2009 IN POLITICS.

Nashville restaurateur Randy Rayburn announces that he’ll file suit in Davidson County Chancery Court in an attempt to block the newly passed state law that allows guns in restaurants that serve alcohol and in bars. The law is set to go into effect July 14. Full press release after the jump:

On Wednesday July 1st, 2009 at 10:00 a.m., Nashville Attorney David Randolph Smith will file a lawsuit in Chancery Court on behalf of 10 Tennessee citizens with Nashville restaurateur Randy Rayburn as the lead plaintiff.

Rayburn, owner of the Sunset Grill, Midtown Café and Cabana, along with 9 others is suing the State of Tennessee (Attorney General as defendant), challenging the legality and constitutionality of Public Chapter 339 which permits the carrying of loaded concealed firearms by permit holders into all restaurants and bars that serve alcohol. The suit is asking for a temporary restraining order and temporary and permanent injunction to stop the law from taking effect on July 14th.

The plaintiffs will allege that the bill is illegal on eight counts. Among them being, that the law is an unlawful public nuisance that threatens the life, health and safety of the public, as well as violating due process and increasing civil liability for the restaurants as well as violating Tennessee’s Occupational Safety and Health Act which expressively requires as a matter of federal and state law that employers provide a safe work place for employees. While a permit holder cannot drink alcohol while carrying a loaded weapon in a bar or restaurant, the new law doesn’t stop that person from having previously consumed alcohol.

“Tennessee liquors laws do not differentiate between bars and restaurants,” says Attorney David Randolph Smith. “All nightclubs, cars, and bar areas of restaurants that presently serve alcohol (until the wee hours of the morning) are licensed as “restaurants.” Therefore once this becomes law, Tennessee will become the first state in the union to ALLOW loaded concealed firearms by permit holders in bars.

“In reality, NONE of the 38 states identified by the National Rifle Association and the law’s proponents expressly permit guns in bars and fourteen of the 38 states identified by the NRA and the law’s supporters expressly prohibit loaded guns in bars or bar areas.”

Tennessee will also be the first state in the nation to decriminalize bringing a permitted firearm into a drinking establishment that posts a notice forbidding guns.”

Former Metro City Councilman Attorney Adam Dread, himself a member of the NRA, will serve as co-counsel to Mr. Smith on this case. The plaintiffs are supported in this suit by the coalition SMART-Safe Merchants and Restaurants in Tennessee- a group of business owners that have joined the fight against the new bill. Meanwhile a statewide grassroots effort to educate the public about the dangers of this bill is picking up steam through the web at gunsandalcoholdontmix.org, and the social media platform facebook.

Immediately following the filing, Attorney David Randolph Smith, Randy Rayburn and members of SMART will be available on the Davidson County Courthouse steps to answer questions. Copies of the lawsuit will be made available at that time as well as online at www. drslawfirm.com/gunsinbarcomplaint.pdf

I wonder if we can get the NRA to kick that douchebag Dread out?

[Fallguy]

"Tennessee will also be the first state in the nation to decriminalize bringing a permitted firearm into a drinking establishment that posts a notice forbidding guns.â€

Well that is just wrong...it will be crime if the place is posted.

To be honest this just seems so unreal to me.....I mean how can there be such a group of misguided, uniformed zealots?!?

I mean we have disagreed about some things on this board, but as long as both sides made logical, intelligible arguments you could at least respect the other persons opinion, even if you didn't agree with it. But these arguments are just made up of falsehoods and lies....how do you argue with that?

Ladies and gentlemen please pray this is assigned to a judge with common sense and this is dismissed before it can really get any traction.

[Guest HexHead]

Well that is just wrong...it will be crime if the place is posted.

To be honest this just seems so unreal to me.....I mean how can there be such a group of misguided, uniformed zealots?!?

I mean we have disagreed about some things on this board, but as long as both sides made logical, intelligible arguments you could at least respect the other persons opinion, even if you didn't agree with it. But these arguments are just made up of falsehoods and lies....how do you argue with that?

Ladies and gentlemen please pray this is assigned to a judge with common sense and this is dismissed before it can really get any traction.

They may be referring to the new sign not mentioning jail time, only a $500 fine? But I digress....

I've already forwarded that article on to the NRA-ILA to bring it to their attention, along with the suggestion they drop Dread from the membership since he dishonors the organization.

[Guest HexHead]

I mean we have disagreed about some things on this board, but as long as both sides made logical, intelligible arguments you could at least respect the other persons opinion, even if you didn't agree with it. But these arguments are just made up of falsehoods and lies....how do you argue with that?

So at what point do we finally say we've had enough with this bull****?

[Guest benchpresspower]

Once again its the "Oh I'm a supporter of the 2nd Ammendment and a member of the NRA but....................."

As far as a judge with common sense goes, well I hope so but who's to say Bredesen or Naifeh or Dread might not try to grease the judge's palm.

[Guest mn32768]

I just read the actual lawsuit text. There's some funny there...

Tennessee doesn't have a legal definition of a "bar" and hence, there can't be any laws pertaining to bars, yet they insist that some restaurants that sell alcohol must be "bars". In other words, because the law doesn't say what they want, they pick up from the internets and call it a fact. Then having made up a legal term that doesn't exist under Tennessee law, they build a whole turdpile of argument on top of it.

For example, the claim that "while a permit holder cannot drink alcohol while carrying a loaded weapon in a bar or restaurant, the new law doesn’t stop that person from having previously consumed alcohol"... um, LAWS don't stop people from doing anything, otherwise we wouldn't have crime! Oh, and the only legal authority for this brilliant interpretation is footnote pointing to a Memphis TV station website with an out-of-context quote from a local bartender!

[Wingshooter]

By these idiots' logic, I should have been dead a long time ago. I mean, how in the crap do I keep from shooting myself and everyone else? Guns are just sooo dangerous! Good thing my holster has proper retention, otherwise my gun would jump out and start spraying lead everywhere...

They are so afraid of HCP holders carrying a gun, but there's more chance of injury by slipping on a spill in one of thier restaurants. Hmmm....

[netmindr]

According to the TFA (Tennessee Firearms Association) forums, there is going to be a 2 hour radio show tomorrow from 11:00 am - 1:00 pm on WAMB (AM1200) with radio host Bob Pope and guests Sen. Doug Jackson, Sen. Jim Tracy, Rep. Ben West, Nicole Goeser, and John Harris to discuss the restaurant carry issue.

Also, on July 7, John Harris, an attorney associated with TFA will be a guest on Newschannel5+ Openline on Comcast channel 50 from 7pm - 8pm to discuss the guns in parks law.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

So, Dread and 10 restaurant owners ignored the facts of the bill and made up propaganda to support their nonsense. Excellent. And all this time we thought Naifeh was the enemy. Dread makes Naifeh look like Charlton Heston.

[JayC]

According to the TFA (Tennessee Firearms Association) forums, there is going to be a 2 hour radio show tomorrow from 11:00 am - 1:00 pm on WAMB (AM1200) with radio host Bob Pope and guests Sen. Doug Jackson, Sen. Jim Tracy, Rep. Ben West, Nicole Goeser, and John Harris to discuss the restaurant carry issue.

Also, on July 7, John Harris, an attorney associated with TFA will be a guest on Newschannel5+ Openline on Comcast channel 50 from 7pm - 8pm to discuss the guns in parks law.

This show will be broadcast live on the TFALive TV channel on their website. (Barring any unforseen technically issues).

[wjh2657]

Saw a short on this subject on WSMV-TV this evening. Several times signs were shown supposedly prohibiting carry. Not one of the signs complied with the TCA39-17-1359.

My physician deals with some patients who are not the most stable in the world. After agonizing over it (he is not anti-gun) he decided to ban weapons in his building. To be perfectly legal, he came to me (He knows that I CCW with a TN HCP) and asked the right procedure to do this. I printed a copy of TCA39-17-1359 for him and then generated two proper signs on my computer, printed them and laminated all of them. His office will now be properly posted, as is his right under the current law.

How hard is this?

Every one of these "restaurant" owners could do the same in less than 5 minutes and they would be covered. There is no need for any further court actions and no great amount of expense is involved.

The orignal legislation took care of both camps. If the place wants my business and is willing to let me carry, they may do so. If the place doesn't want my business and chooses to ban CCW, they may do so.

WHAZZZUP?

Edited July 2, 2009 by wjh2657

[Guest HexHead]

The orignal legislation took care of both camps. If the place wants my business and is willing to let me carry, they may do so. If the place doesn't want my business and chooses to ban CCW, they may do so.

WHAZZZUP?

There's the rub. They want the state to do their dirty work so they can keep their hands clean. If they put up a sign, they know they will drive away some prospective customers, and it costs them money. If they don't put up a sign, they will have some tables taken up by people prohibited by statute from purchasing their highest profit items, alcohol, so it costs them money.

If they can get the state law invalidated and everything stays the status quo, they don't alienate prospective customers with a sign at the door and gun owners won't be able to carry in the restaurant and they can still sell them drinks, beer and wine.

Whenever you're wondering about stuff or motivations that just don't make sense, just follow the money.