Challenge "Guns-in-bars" Law: Nashville attorneys David Randolph Smith & Adam Dread

[Fallguy]

Turned off Fox News this morning.

They have a blurb of an upcoming segement....still calling the new law "Guns in Bars" in TN and were going to talk about the fight what local bar owners were going to do.

We get this law passed, the Governor vetoes it in a big spectacle, the legislature overrides the veto and it becomes law. You'd think that be the end of it...but NOOOOOO Metro has to try to find a way around it. There told they can't legally. The legislature passes a bill just to make sure any loophole is closed. Restaurant owner's can choose to post their property or not, unlike being able to choose to allow smoking or not.

.....and STILL they can't just let it go......my God how ignorant of the simple facts can some people be?!? I mean no local governments are introducing resolutions to "highly recommend" restaurants post! Memphis thinks it can close of a public street just because restaurants are on that street.

I called the legislature, respond to articles in the media, talked a lot on here , just about wore out on this....lol

Anyway.....just wanted to rant to a sympathetic audience...lol Carry on

[Guest HexHead]

Two Americas, baby. Coming soon to the town near you.

[jughead]

Fallguy you have my ear. i have never in my life heard such dumb comments from some of our city and county talking heads. they do not seem to understand the law, or the will of the people. seems the only ordinance they like is one that gives them total control of the people. i have personally sat by people that ranted and raved against carrying handguns all the time within inches of mine. it was more prudent that i kept my mouth shut which i did. to my knowledge they were NOT harmed by me or the weapon.

Edited June 20, 2009 by jughead
spelling

[K191145]

Turned off Fox News this morning.

They have a blurb of an upcoming segement....still calling the new law "Guns in Bars" in TN and were going to talk about the fight what local bar owners were going to do.

We get this law passed, the Governor vetoes it in a big spectacle, the legislature overrides the veto and it becomes law. You'd think that be the end of it...but NOOOOOO Metro has to try to find a way around it. There told they can't legally. The legislature passes a bill just to make sure any loophole is closed. Restaurant owner's can choose to post their property or not, unlike being able to choose to allow smoking or not.

.....and STILL they can't just let it go......my God how ignorant of the simple facts can some people be?!? I mean no local governments are introducing resolutions to "highly recommend" restaurants post! Memphis thinks it can close of a public street just because restaurants are on that street.

I called the legislature, respond to articles in the media, talked a lot on here , just about wore out on this....lol

Anyway.....just wanted to rant to a sympathetic audience...lol Carry on

I turned them off too, just sick of hearing about it and the stupid comments. I'm sure there will be a whole new round of news stories come July 14. If I'm going out to eat and I see a "no guns" sign on the door of the restaurant, I'll just go somewhere else. Maybe swing through a fast food drive through, come back and park in their parking lot and eat my burger. If they complain I'll just tell them that I'm not allowed to come inside their restaurant and eat. Worse they can do is run me off.

[Guest HexHead]

Maybe swing through a fast food drive through, come back and park in their parking lot and eat my burger. If they complain I'll just tell them that I'm not allowed to come inside their restaurant and eat. Worse they can do is run me off.

I like that!

[Worriedman]

If this specific tag has been posted before, I apologize, but feel it has merit relative to the original thread. Dread now wants to sue the Legislature.

Legal Fight Brewing Over Controversial State Gun Law - NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee -

Maybe the Legislature needs to better define the difference between a restaurant and a bar. Bet you will see the owners of said establishments fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening. Wonder what the liability insurance cost would be for an establishment listed as a "dive"? They want to ply their patrons with a mind altering drug for profit, and turn them loose in their cars, but cry havoc about guns being present?

[Guest HexHead]

Maybe the Legislature needs to better define the difference between a restaurant and a bar. Bet you will see the owners of said establishments fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening. Wonder what the liability insurance cost would be for an establishment listed as a "dive"? They want to ply their patrons with a mind altering drug for profit, and turn them loose in their cars, but cry havoc about guns being present?

There's the problem right there....

"The fact is that you can take a gun into an establishment in Georgia that serves alcohol in a restaurant, if it has a bar area - you cannot. But Tennessee's law permits nightclubs, saloons, dance bars, music halls, guns in all those, no state has ever done that," said attorney David Randolph Smith.

Dread, Smith, Rayburn, these idiots are really beginning to piss me off.

TN's law only includes those places because obviously we're too stupid to come up with a definition of what constitutes a "bar".

[Falcon1]

TN's law only includes those places because obviously we're too stupid to come up with a definition of what constitutes a "bar".

The law as passed is, however, pretty definite about what a restaurant is:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

( As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant” means any public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays, vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted.

Some locations will not meet that definition, even though they do serve food. We here know what those locations are. Evidently some folks and the media do not.

[Guest HexHead]

The law as passed is, however, pretty definite about what a restaurant is:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

Some locations will not meet that definition, even though they do serve food. We here know what those locations are. Evidently some folks and the media do not.

This could all be solved by giving beer joints, cabarets, honky tonks, dance clubs and strip joints a bar license instead of a restaurant license. They don't need to use a % of sales formula. Anyone with a lick of sense can tell a "bar" from a "restaurant" as soon as they walk in.

[Falcon1]

This could all be solved by giving beer joints, cabarets, honky tonks, dance clubs and strip joints a bar license instead of a restaurant license. They don't need to use a % of sales formula. Anyone with a lick of sense can tell a "bar" from a "restaurant" as soon as they walk in.

You are absolutely correct there.

[Fallguy]

Part of the problem would be that you would also have to force local beer boards in counties/cities where liquor sales are illegal to issue different types of "sale for onsite consumption" beer permits.

Although it shouldn't be that hard I guess, the law could define the different types of permits and the standards for each.

But some could see it as the state interfering with local control....

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

But Tennessee's law permits nightclubs, saloons, dance bars, music halls, guns in all those, no state has ever done that," said attorney David Randolph Smith.

Did he even read the law before making an ignorant statement like this? I have never seen any of these places that are not age restricted (except for music halls). Many of them card. I've also never been to a large music event that didn't frisk/wand at the door. So IIRC the law disallows carry at all of these places. It's like arguing we need to lower the speed limit because 90mph is a danger to public saftey. Duh! Already the law!

[Fallguy]

Did he even read the law before making an ignorant statement like this? I have never seen any of these places that are not age restricted (except for music halls). Many of them card. I've also never been to a large music event that didn't frisk/wand at the door. So IIRC the law disallows carry at all of these places. It's like arguing we need to lower the speed limit because 90mph is a danger to public saftey. Duh! Already the law!

You do know that age-restricted venues where not part of the final bill/law, right?

[Guest HexHead]

Part of the problem would be that you would also have to force local beer boards in counties/cities where liquor sales are illegal to issue different types of "sale for onsite consumption" beer permits.

Although it shouldn't be that hard I guess, the law could define the different types of permits and the standards for each.

But some could see it as the state interfering with local control....

Let's face it, there should be ONE liquor license, period. This beer board crap is nonsense. I was hoping when the legislature was going to "close the loophole" the morons on Metro Council was trying to play, they were just going to take beer away from local control and roll it into the State liquor license and be done with it.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

did anyone see the News Channel 5 story this morning? They talked about the 'guns in bars" bill being challenged by the Adam Dread coalition and they also talked about the guns in parks bill being challenged. The funny thing is, in the 'guns in bars' story, they never once mentioned that the new law is for HCP holders only, and that those people still could not drink. Nor did it mention that the restaurants could post. However, in the parks story, they specifically said that the new law would allow HCP holders to carry into a park etc... Inconsistent, dishonest and devoid of all the facts as usual.

[Fallguy]

Let's face it, there should be ONE liquor license, period. This beer board crap is nonsense. I was hoping when the legislature was going to "close the loophole" the morons on Metro Council was trying to play, they were just going to take beer away from local control and roll it into the State liquor license and be done with it.

Well all "liquor" licenses are issued by the state. But "beer" licenses are issued by the local beer board.

So some of the problem is that not all "alcohol" is treated the same in TN.

I'm sure you've noticed that you can not buy package liquor and beer in the same place, even if both are legal within the same location.

So I wasn't really talking about the "local loophole" as much as two different levels of governments have control over different items that are affected by the same bills. So unless you but all the control under one level, the state would have to issue guidelines to local governments to get the "bar license" idea to work.

[Guest HexHead]

did anyone see the News Channel 5 story this morning? They talked about the 'guns in bars" bill being challenged by the Adam Dread coalition and they also talked about the guns in parks bill being challenged. The funny thing is, in the 'guns in bars' story, they never once mentioned that the new law is for HCP holders only, and that those people still could not drink. Nor did it mention that the restaurants could post. However, in the parks story, they specifically said that the new law would allow HCP holders to carry into a park etc... Inconsistent, dishonest and devoid of all the facts as usual.

I think it depends on the individual producer. Last night on the 10 o'clock news they did the "Dread story" too and it was accurately portrayed. It was even referred to as guns in restaurants.

[Guest HexHead]

Well all "liquor" licenses are issued by the state. But "beer" licenses are issued by the local beer board.

So some of the problem is that not all "alcohol" is treated the same in TN.

I'm sure you've noticed that you can not buy package liquor and beer in the same place, even if both are legal within the same location.

So I wasn't really talking about the "local loophole" as much as two different levels of governments have control over different items that are affected by the same bills. So unless you but all the control under one level, the state would have to issue guidelines to local governments to get the "bar license" idea to work.

That was my point. The State should just pull the beer under their control. The entire scope of liquor laws in this state and where what can be sold needs a complete overhaul.

[E4 No More]

That was my point. The State should just pull the beer under their control. The entire scope of liquor laws in this state and where what can be sold needs a complete overhaul.

Having come from another state, I have found this system to be particularly odd, and agree with you completely.

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

You do know that age-restricted venues where not part of the final bill/law, right?

My bad. I though the site said that amendment passed, just without the time restriction. Thanks for the clarification.

[Fallguy]

My bad. I though the site said that amendment passed, just without the time restriction. Thanks for the clarification.

The original bill had age restriction, the amendment that passed removed it.

Was definitely a roller coaster process there for a while...lol

Here is what became law.

[Guest Smitty]

You do know that age-restricted venues where not part of the final bill/law, right?

Really? So a 21 & up restaurant that allows smoking inside and has a bar inside you can sit at and at the same time has regular restaurant tables that serves liquor and beer by the drink just like a regular family restaurant is a no carry zone still? Man that makes me irritated.

[Punisher84]

Really? So a 21 & up restaurant that allows smoking inside and has a bar inside you can sit at and at the same time has regular restaurant tables that serves liquor and beer by the drink just like a regular family restaurant is a no carry zone still? Man that makes me irritated.

No you can. The bill passed with no amendments. You can carry in any place that serves alcohol as long as they serve food and it's not posted is what it basically boils down too.

[Fallguy]

Really? So a 21 & up restaurant that allows smoking inside and has a bar inside you can sit at and at the same time has regular restaurant tables that serves liquor and beer by the drink just like a regular family restaurant is a no carry zone still? Man that makes me irritated.

No...You can carry.

Age restriction was NOT part of the final bill/law.

[Fallguy]

**THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARD ANYONE SPECIFIC**

But you know.....if members of this board, where literally second-by-second coverage of this bill occurred and where thousands of post have been made on the topic, still are not sure of what exactly passed....maybe we do need to do a better job of educating the media and even more importantly the people that are simply eating what the media is feeding them......