Challenge "Guns-in-bars" Law: Nashville attorneys David Randolph Smith & Adam Dread

[wjh2657]

Think we can get the open carry guys to take a hiatus?

I can just hear my old grannie now "you can't get in trouble with it if you can just keep it in your pants!"

[Guest thorn]

Sorry about the ticket, but THANKS! for taking one for the team

[Wingshooter]

Suit Thrown Out That Would Stop Guns In Restaurants Bill - NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee -

:dropjaw:

They called it "Guns in Restaurants Bill"

[mcurrier]

I'll chip in on it!

same here!

[bubbiesdad]

"I'm not worried about the 99 percent of gun owners who are permit holders. I'm worried about the 1 or 2 percent of would-be ‘Dirty Harrys' who are going to carry out their attempts at vigilantly justice in our cities and environments," Randy Rayburn told NewsChannel 5."

If he's not worried about the permit holders, why did he bring the suit?

This guy is an idiot and a liar.

[mcurrier]

:dropjaw:

They called it "Guns in Restaurants Bill"

Then that clearly must be an article about another bill that we've not heard about. We all know that it's the GUNS IN BARS BILL. That's what the media has been telling us for weeks. Who wants to take a gun in a plain ol' restaurant?! That's no fun!

[wjh2657]

Hey, these are saloon keepers. Not exactly at the top of the moral and socially conscious strata of society.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

"I'm not worried about the 99 percent of gun owners who are permit holders. I'm worried about the 1 or 2 percent of would-be ‘Dirty Harrys' who are going to carry out their attempts at vigilantly justice in our cities and environments," Randy Rayburn told NewsChannel 5."

If he's not worried about the permit holders, why did he bring the suit?

This guy is an idiot and a liar.

yea, he established that weeks ago.

[Guest nashvegas]

The City Paper "article" calls it guns-in-bars. I left a comment there.

[bubbiesdad]

yea, he established that weeks ago.

An either too lazy or too stupid to post his establishments.

[Guest GT_Rat]

"I'm not worried about the 99 percent of gun owners who are permit holders. I'm worried about the 1 or 2 percent of would-be ‘Dirty Harrys' who are going to carry out their attempts at vigilantly justice in our cities and environments," Randy Rayburn told NewsChannel 5.

His numbers are a bit skewed but presumably he means 99% of carry permit holders. He needs to revise that to 99.75% of carry permit holders. Only about .25% of carry permit holders commit crimes and I've never seen even one report of a carry permit holder carrying out vigilante justice. Someone intent on vigilante justice isn't going to care about a carry permit, isn't going to care if it's legal to carry in a bar, and if they have any intelligence isn't going to carry out their vigilantism in a place like a bar. Much like any other criminal they are intent on doing what they want regardless of the laws in place.

[Guest ScottD]

Humms Queen's "We are the champions" (for the most part)

[mcurrier]

I love how tomorrow is also Bastille Day. Viva la revolucion!

(pun intended on beer smiley)

[netmindr]

His numbers are a bit skewed but presumably he means 99% of carry permit holders. He needs to revise that to 99.75% of carry permit holders. Only about .25% of carry permit holders commit crimes and I've never seen even one report of a carry permit holder carrying out vigilante justice. Someone intent on vigilante justice isn't going to care about a carry permit, isn't going to care if it's legal to carry in a bar, and if they have any intelligence isn't going to carry out their vigilantism in a place like a bar. Much like any other criminal they are intent on doing what they want regardless of the laws in place.

Here is a link to a post I created on the TFA forums which reports on the state's 2008 statistics for HCPs and crime stating that in 2008 only 0.1206% of permits where revoked last year.

http://www.*********.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2394

"I'm not worried about the 99 percent of gun owners who are permit holders. I'm worried about the 1 or 2 percent of would-be ‘Dirty Harrys' who are going to carry out their attempts at vigilantly justice in our cities and environments," Randy Rayburn told NewsChannel 5.

The type of people that say things like this are trying, and succeeding, in getting the public to fear and distrust anyone who own guns and especially any one who would carry a weapon for defense purposes.

Of course, the media will never report that today a responsible gun owner with a Handgun Carry Permit went quietly about his business, went out to lunch, came home to dinner with his family and cleaned his gun that evening - all without incident.

[mcurrier]

linky no worky

[netmindr]

linky no worky

Yeah, something about the TFA site.

Anyway, here's the content of that post:

Here is a link to the state's statistics on carry permits showing the number of issued, suspended, revoked and denied permits by month for the calendar year. The appendix in the back even shows totals through the first quarter of 2009. Unfortunately, those who oppose our rights don't like to be confused with the facts.

http://www.state.tn.us/safety/stats/DL_Handgun/Handgun/HandgunReport2008Full.pdf

Also, here is a link to the Crime in Tennessee 2008 report

http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/Info%20Systems%20Div/TIBRS_unit/Publications/2008%20Crime%20in%20Tennessee.pdf

If you look at these numbers, there were a total of exactly 607 permits suspended or revoked in 2008 and there was a total of 218,004 permit holders on 1/1/2009. Therefore, 0.278% of permits were at least suspended for crime or other reasons last year. As suspensions can be temporary, the number of permits revoked was 263 which is 0.1206% of the total number of permits at the end of the year, that's less than 1/8 of 1%.

All the while, there were 47,315 arrests for Domestic Violence, 236 for Stalking, 29,387 for DUI plus 2,843 for Weapon Law Violations in the state during the same time period. With an estimated population of 6,214,888, that means that at least 1.28% of the total population committed crimes that would result in revokation of a permit. And that is a very conservative estimate as it does not take into account all of the offenses that would disqualify someone for a permit which is not explicitly listed. If you took into account every crime that qualifies, I'm sure that percentage would at least close to double. Namely, from the Handgun Carry Permit Qualifications and Requirements website (http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgun/qualifications.htm):

- Applicants shall not have been convicted of any felony offense punishable for a term exceeding one (1) year;

- Applicants shall not currently be under indictment or information for any criminal offense punishable by a term exceeding one (1) year;

- Shall not be currently the subject of any order of protection;

- Shall not be a fugitive from justice;

- Shall not be an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol or any controlled substance and the applicant has not been a patient in a rehabilitation program or hospitalized for alcohol or controlled substance abuse or addiction within ten (10) years from the date of application;

- The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal.

- Shall not have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence as defined in 18 U.S.C.A. 921 (33);

- Shall not have been convicted of the offense of stalking

[TGO David]

Thank you for posting the contents rather than linking. It's always better to just post than link since sites often disappear from the Internet and then the links are useless.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Yeah, something about the TFA site.

Anyway, here's the content of that post:

Here is a link to the state's statistics on carry permits showing the number of issued, suspended, revoked and denied permits by month for the calendar year. The appendix in the back even shows totals through the first quarter of 2009. Unfortunately, those who oppose our rights don't like to be confused with the facts.

http://www.state.tn.us/safety/stats/DL_Handgun/Handgun/HandgunReport2008Full.pdf

Also, here is a link to the Crime in Tennessee 2008 report

http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/Info%20Systems%20Div/TIBRS_unit/Publications/2008%20Crime%20in%20Tennessee.pdf

If you look at these numbers, there were a total of exactly 607 permits suspended or revoked in 2008 and there was a total of 218,004 permit holders on 1/1/2009. Therefore, 0.278% of permits were at least suspended for crime or other reasons last year. As suspensions can be temporary, the number of permits revoked was 263 which is 0.1206% of the total number of permits at the end of the year, that's less than 1/8 of 1%.

All the while, there were 47,315 arrests for Domestic Violence, 236 for Stalking, 29,387 for DUI plus 2,843 for Weapon Law Violations in the state during the same time period. With an estimated population of 6,214,888, that means that at least 1.28% of the total population committed crimes that would result in revokation of a permit. And that is a very conservative estimate as it does not take into account all of the offenses that would disqualify someone for a permit which is not explicitly listed. If you took into account every crime that qualifies, I'm sure that percentage would at least close to double. Namely, from the Handgun Carry Permit Qualifications and Requirements website (http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgun/qualifications.htm):

- Applicants shall not have been convicted of any felony offense punishable for a term exceeding one (1) year;

- Applicants shall not currently be under indictment or information for any criminal offense punishable by a term exceeding one (1) year;

- Shall not be currently the subject of any order of protection;

- Shall not be a fugitive from justice;

- Shall not be an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol or any controlled substance and the applicant has not been a patient in a rehabilitation program or hospitalized for alcohol or controlled substance abuse or addiction within ten (10) years from the date of application;

- The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal.

- Shall not have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence as defined in 18 U.S.C.A. 921 (33);

- Shall not have been convicted of the offense of stalking

I think it would considerably more than double since those don't take into account anywhere near all of the felony offenses that one could be convicted of. Just a few of the worst of them.

[Tim Nunan]

Thank you for posting the contents rather than linking. It's always better to just post than link since sites often disappear from the Internet and then the links are useless.

Actually this isn't a problem with the TFA sites but a TGO management decision to block anything that indicates a TFA link.

One would think all TN gun owners would want accurate information regardless of the source.

[TGO David]

Actually this isn't a problem with the TFA sites but a TGO management decision to block anything that indicates a TFA link.

One would think all TN gun owners would want accurate information regardless of the source.

Clearly someone with a TFA avatar and TFA plug in their signature wouldn't have an agenda here, but the bottom line regarding what you've stated is that you guys have tried numerous times to recruit for your organization here and I've grown tired of it. TFA has it's own web site, they should stick to recruiting there. TGO is an accurate source of information, regardless of what you or your group like to claim.

And again, as I've stated, copying and pasting is preferred because other sites can and do go away as organizations, companies, entities, etc. fade out of existence. I'm not saying TFA is in danger of that, I'm just saying that I can't guarantee it won't ever happen and a bunch of broken links aren't going to do anyone here any good if it ever does.

Edited July 14, 2009 by TGO David