Human Resources/Work question for TN

[S&WForty]

I have a question about a private-owned company that employs hourly and salary employees. We just received 20% paycuts, but the flipside was 20% less time at work. Well, supposedly.

Hourly employees are getting to work and be paid for 32.5hrs. Salary employees were cut to 32 hrs, M-F 8:00-3:00, but that's only 30 hrs. The other two hours have to be made up a little bit here or there. They made it clear to keep up with our time that we get those two extra hours in.

We were also told it's the same as a normal 40-hr week for salaried employees. The 8-3 is a minimum DAILY requirement. If we have to work "late" a few hours to get the job done, we cannot leave early on Friday when we hit 32 hrs for the week.

It went into effect this week, and surprise, surprise, I am on pace to work 37-39 hours (with pay maxed at 32 hrs). If everyone is facing that (even though not everyone has worked over like I have had to), I can deal with it. I've worked over 40hrs a week for years with no overtime. I am used to it.

But yesterdaay I learned that three out of about 7 of us non-management salaried employees asked for and are now working four 8hr days with Friday or Monday off. I have put in a request for the same where we can rotate who is off Friday or Monday. I have not gotten any feedback, and my direct manager clearly had a different demeanor last time I spoke with him. I know he got the request. They had considered a 4-day week originally. When we first heard rumors of a paycut, that's what we heard. At the last minute they decided it wasn't feasible, so the M-F with reduced hours were implemented. I just have a sinking feeling they are going to say no more can have the 4-day schedule.

Is it legal to let some have one schedule and refuse it to the others when both groups in question do the same job/title and are all salary? Particularly when some may work several unpaid hours and others don't? It's like those with the 4-day weeks just got their guaranteed 8hrs off. I suspect for salaried employees, it's "anything goes." Thank you for any insight.

Edited June 17, 2009 by S&WForty

[gsbell]

Start looking for another job, seriously.

[Guest foister82]

it was my understanding that if you are not on a term contract that they can pretty much do whatever they want with you as long as they classify you as "salary"

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

I have to agree with gsbell. Time to update your resume.

[S&WForty]

Thanks for the replies. Another guy put in a request for the 4-day schedule, too. He got no feedback either. The joke around the office is the 4-day guys are going to use their day off to look for other jobs. It would serve them right if all of us could walk out at the same time. LOL

[gsbell]

As someone who has been a victim of a business pushing their inept management problems down onto the employees backs take this as a sign that these people have no regard whatsoever for you.

Why would you want to work for people like that?

I watched round after round of layoffs, wage cuts, facility consolidations, right down to the end where they kicked the last of us to the curb.

I know things are rough in the economy but they are a hell of a lot rougher being unemployed looking for a job, get looking now!

[S&WForty]

We had "small" cuts in January - 8%, and two of five guys in my position were let go in May. I am one of three left. (The other salaried guys are in another area.) It's been a rough year. Now this.

It's really been a good place to work for many years. I've had a lot of gripes (no job is perfect!), but none that were ever worth rocking the boat. THIS? I am pretty chapped, and feel I have no choice but to speak up. If some get preferential treatment now, where will it stop? Tomorrow the ball will definitely be in their court...

I'll post an update when the dust settles.

[krunchnik]

I think that our down turn in economy is giving corporations and other businesses a good excuse to sometimes treat employees badly,We can get another one of you at the drop of a hat,we have them standing in line to work here,your just lucky to still have a job-We hear it all-Just my humble opinion.

[DavidCBaker]

As long as you get your TPS reports in on time, I think you'll be fine.

[Guest boatme99]

As long as you get your TPS reports in on time, I think you'll be fine.

Mmmmm.....yeah, did you get the memo?

[Guest 3pugguy]

I have a question about a private-owned company that employs hourly and salary employees. We just received 20% paycuts, but the flipside was 20% less time at work. Well, supposedly.

Hourly employees are getting to work and be paid for 32.5hrs. Salary employees were cut to 32 hrs, M-F 8:00-3:00, but that's only 30 hrs. The other two hours have to be made up a little bit here or there. They made it clear to keep up with our time that we get those two extra hours in.

We were also told it's the same as a normal 40-hr week for salaried employees. The 8-3 is a minimum DAILY requirement. If we have to work "late" a few hours to get the job done, we cannot leave early on Friday when we hit 32 hrs for the week.

It went into effect this week, and surprise, surprise, I am on pace to work 37-39 hours (with pay maxed at 32 hrs). If everyone is facing that (even though not everyone has worked over like I have had to), I can deal with it. I've worked over 40hrs a week for years with no overtime. I am used to it.

But yesterdaay I learned that three out of about 7 of us non-management salaried employees asked for and are now working four 8hr days with Friday or Monday off. I have put in a request for the same where we can rotate who is off Friday or Monday. I have not gotten any feedback, and my direct manager clearly had a different demeanor last time I spoke with him. I know he got the request. They had considered a 4-day week originally. When we first heard rumors of a paycut, that's what we heard. At the last minute they decided it wasn't feasible, so the M-F with reduced hours were implemented. I just have a sinking feeling they are going to say no more can have the 4-day schedule.

Is it legal to let some have one schedule and refuse it to the others when both groups in question do the same job/title and are all salary? Particularly when some may work several unpaid hours and others don't? It's like those with the 4-day weeks just got their guaranteed 8hrs off. I suspect for salaried employees, it's "anything goes." Thank you for any insight.

A lot of it depends on how many people your company employs, amount of annual revenuen and if you are engaged in interstate commerce for how federal law, i.e. FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) applies or if it even applies. Why I mention that is your reference to being salaried non-management. To be salaried and not get paid OT, a person has to meet the requirements of the FLSA, if it applies to the company. For example, my company has "salaried" people (my assistant, for example). Although salaried, her duties do not meet the requirement to make her exempt from FLSA requirements of Overtime.

So if she works more than 40 hours, she gets paid time and a half because we are covered by FLSA. Thus, if your company does meet the FLSA threshhold and you are not actually "exempt" from FLSA OT provisions (and it is based on clear duties, not the opinion of making you exempt to save OT), you could have a good case (but you need a lawyer to confirm and review your situation, not me - I have an MA in Human Resources but am NOT a lawyer).

Tennessee generally follows federal law, i.e. they don't go out of their way to provide protections for workers.

Regarding the "fairness" issue, I am not a lawyer, but would tell you the general rule is fair schmare, unless you have a union. Think about harrassment - if your manager says shut up and sit down and don't give me any lip, is that harassment? Not really. It's them being an a-hole which is not statutorily prohibited.

I would suggest you contact a labor lawyer (many will provide an initial consult for no fee). Or, you can contact the TN Labor Board. I have also posted some links for you here:

US Department of Labor U.S. Department of Labor - Workplace Rights & Benefits

TN DOL Welcome - Tennessee Department of Labor and Workforce Development

PLEASE get legal advice; also see if there is a Southern Poverty Law Center anywhere near you (or a legal aid office of any type).

Good luck and last thing - get out of there when you can; not matter the outcome, they obviously don't give a rat's patoot about people.

Barry

[Guest 3pugguy]

I think that our down turn in economy is giving corporations and other businesses a good excuse to sometimes treat employees badly,We can get another one of you at the drop of a hat,we have them standing in line to work here,your just lucky to still have a job-We hear it all-Just my humble opinion.

Companies that act like this will get a rude awakening when things turn around and they will.

I work in the contract labor world and the successful companies are doing business as usual, i.e. they are not trying to squeeze the agencies or their contractors to be cheaper (beyond their normal squeeze, that is), because they take a long term view and want to be able to get the best talent as needed.

[Guest 3pugguy]

I have a question about a private-owned company that employs hourly and salary employees. We just received 20% paycuts, but the flipside was 20% less time at work. Well, supposedly.

Hourly employees are getting to work and be paid for 32.5hrs. Salary employees were cut to 32 hrs, M-F 8:00-3:00, but that's only 30 hrs. The other two hours have to be made up a little bit here or there. They made it clear to keep up with our time that we get those two extra hours in.

We were also told it's the same as a normal 40-hr week for salaried employees. The 8-3 is a minimum DAILY requirement. If we have to work "late" a few hours to get the job done, we cannot leave early on Friday when we hit 32 hrs for the week.

It went into effect this week, and surprise, surprise, I am on pace to work 37-39 hours (with pay maxed at 32 hrs). If everyone is facing that (even though not everyone has worked over like I have had to), I can deal with it. I've worked over 40hrs a week for years with no overtime. I am used to it.

But yesterdaay I learned that three out of about 7 of us non-management salaried employees asked for and are now working four 8hr days with Friday or Monday off. I have put in a request for the same where we can rotate who is off Friday or Monday. I have not gotten any feedback, and my direct manager clearly had a different demeanor last time I spoke with him. I know he got the request. They had considered a 4-day week originally. When we first heard rumors of a paycut, that's what we heard. At the last minute they decided it wasn't feasible, so the M-F with reduced hours were implemented. I just have a sinking feeling they are going to say no more can have the 4-day schedule.

Is it legal to let some have one schedule and refuse it to the others when both groups in question do the same job/title and are all salary? Particularly when some may work several unpaid hours and others don't? It's like those with the 4-day weeks just got their guaranteed 8hrs off. I suspect for salaried employees, it's "anything goes." Thank you for any insight.

Here is a direct link to the FLSA pages at Dept of Labor (federal)

U.S. Department of Labor - Employment Standards Administration (ESA) - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Compliance Assistance-Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

[DavidD]

Excellent advice! Barry is right on. I'd hope your company does not meet the requirements of FLSA. If they in fact do, you are due allot of overtime back pay and the company will be fined heavily. As Barry suggested, get legal advice. Even if that advice says they are in their legal rights to do this, you at least know you are not being on illegally. Lastly, Talk with your Supervisor about the whole "they get Friday off and you've received no response". Sometimes, face to face conversations command respect.

[Frag Daddy]

the problem isn't with you. it's with the.... TPS reports:)

[Guest 3pugguy]

Sorry, I was dashing off a reply this afternoon. This type of thing scorches my shorts - what is a business without the PEOPLE? Anyway, I agree with David on trying to discuss the situation and want to add this one other suggestion:

take notes during any meeting and record the day, time, and who all was in attendance.

If it does come down to a legal issue, it will help a lawyer determine if there is an actionable claim.

And if you should by some chance get canned for asking questions or they cut your hours, etc, if you "make waves" to the point of quitting, DEFINITELY get a lawyer. There is something called a "constructive quit" - what that means in a nutshell is the employer made it intolerable for the employee to continue there (based on what a reasonable person would find acceptable).

Regarding FLSA and working OT and not getting paid: there was a precedent set in Kern County, CA, with (working without a net here) firemen. A Fire Captain wanted a few hours off - kids game or something - and the Boss had him take vacation/time off. The rub was the Fire Captain was paid under exempt status. He got smart, got a lawyer, and stuck it waaaaaaayyyy up the behind of the employer. See, when they made an exempt person - who gets paid the same if the work 40 hours or 70 hours - put in to take a couple of hours off, that changed the classification and the court allowed back pay for ALL OT for two years. Disclaimer - that is a quick overview of the case, without referencing the actual case. But any labor lawyer would know of it.

Again I wish you good luck and stick to your guns. Employers may have a lot of rights, but need to understand they are dealing with people. (Get that resume dusted off and out there).

Barry

[mhm2a]

Put all your requests in writing and keep all of the documents you receive from your employer......when you get it or give it in writing then it can not be ignored.

Salaried employees often have intangibles such as benefits, retirement plans, etc...that hourly employees do not always qualify for....so you may not want envy those people too much when they get off early on Friday.

Unfortunately the labor pool is filled with others without jobs who are willing to do what you do and likely for less money....I would say ride it out for the time being, but spend some time thinking about what you want out of this job and do not burn any bridges or chase the all mighty dollar.

[BigPoppa]

As long as you get your TPS reports in on time, I think you'll be fine.

Classic. I LOL'ed.

[Guest Rick O'Shay]

Different situation here. I too am salaried and work at least 50 hrs a week. The young "barnburners" generally work 60-70 hrs a week. And we are hiring engineers constantly. I thought there was a recession going on.

[S&WForty]

Very interesting responses. Barry, your replies and links are great! I think several can keep those for good reference!

On Wednesday, three people had the perk/privilege of a 4 day week. Effective late Thurs or early today, EVERYONE has the option. Whew.

The boss emailed me and the other guy back late Wednesday saying a management meeting was needed to discuss the requests and hopefully he'd have an answer for us by end of day Thursday. My email had been a two-line email saying I wanted that option, too, and to call me to his office to discuss why.

When I got the short reply back telling me they had to meet about it, I quickly replied back with a brief, but detailed explanation of WHY I was asking. I made several points. At the end I referenced the fact I knew the other guy was asking for it, and then I advised "I know we're not the only two wondering why a few got this option and it was not extended to all. Your review needs to consider extending this to everyone and not just our two requests you got yesterday."

I feel like a Junior Union Organizer. LOL What's sad, everyone is still POed that it was not offered to them without our actions. We know from a good source had me and the other guy not pressed for it, they would not have extended the option on their own.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Very interesting responses. Barry, your replies and links are great! I think several can keep those for good reference!

On Wednesday, three people had the perk/privilege of a 4 day week. Effective late Thurs or early today, EVERYONE has the option. Whew.

The boss emailed me and the other guy back late Wednesday saying a management meeting was needed to discuss the requests and hopefully he'd have an answer for us by end of day Thursday. My email had been a two-line email saying I wanted that option, too, and to call me to his office to discuss why.

When I got the short reply back telling me they had to meet about it, I quickly replied back with a brief, but detailed explanation of WHY I was asking. I made several points. At the end I referenced the fact I knew the other guy was asking for it, and then I advised "I know we're not the only two wondering why a few got this option and it was not extended to all. Your review needs to consider extending this to everyone and not just our two requests you got yesterday."

I feel like a Junior Union Organizer. LOL What's sad, everyone is still POed that it was not offered to them without our actions. We know from a good source had me and the other guy not pressed for it, they would not have extended the option on their own.

If you have time, keep us posted on the outcome. I am glad it seems to be stabilizing some and you can at least feel you're on a level field.

There is a line of thought that says we manage our managers and I ascribe to that, to an extent. By asking for the clarification, explaining why you asked, etc, you "managed" the manager to respond, act, and not just give a canned answer. Again, hang in there - seems from your post your are handling it really well.

Barry

[S&WForty]

If you have time, keep us posted on the outcome. I am glad it seems to be stabilizing some and you can at least feel you're on a level field.

There is a line of thought that says we manage our managers and I ascribe to that, to an extent. By asking for the clarification, explaining why you asked, etc, you "managed" the manager to respond, act, and not just give a canned answer. Again, hang in there - seems from your post your are handling it really well.

Barry

Like in all jobs, no one is happy 100% of the time. Things happen with or without intent that can upset someone; however, for me, nothing in over 12 years was ever worth questioning or as in this case speaking up and asking for something.

Our managers have been fortunate that practically all of their time is spent on business matters and not personnel issues. The downside to that is when something like this past week's situation arose, I honestly don't think they knew how to best manage it. It's good they inadvertently let us manage them as you say.

We also have a situation where one of the managers is using these hard times to turn as many workers against the owner as he can. As if times are not difficult enough, we have all of that to contend with. I know for a fact a lot or most of what that manager says are lies or severely exaggerated.

[Guest HexHead]

We also have a situation where one of the managers is using these hard times to turn as many workers against the owner as he can. As if times are not difficult enough, we have all of that to contend with. I know for a fact a lot or most of what that manager says are lies or severely exaggerated.

He's an idiot of a manager. It's a battle he can't win and in time he'll become an unemployed idiot.