Parking Lot Bill?

[Guest GhostHunter]

Anyone heard anything more about the "Parking Lot Bill", which would allow me to keep a gun in my locked vehicle in the parking lot at work? I haven't heard about it in a while.

[Guest bkelm18]

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

It's being held in committee for summer study.

[Champ198]

Is Summer Study another way of saying it's going to the magical land where bills go that are never heard from again?

[Guest HexHead]

Not really. Restarant carry went to summer study last year.

[Guest Jamie]

Is Summer Study another way of saying it's going to the magical land where bills go that are never heard from again?

You're thinking of "Naifeh land", where gun bills go and are never heard from again.

Fortunately, that seems to have been closed down, "the public welfare

requiring it."

[Daps]

You're thinking of "Naifeh land", where gun bills go and are never heard from again.

Fortunately, that seems to have been closed down, "the public welfare

requiring it."

ROFL

Amen to that..

[Chucktshoes]

I mentioned this in another thread, but Fed Ex are highly opposed to this and are lobbying against it. they have a lot of pull and will be a big hurdle, so make sure to let your legislators know your feelings on this bill. Mine are effing useless since I live in the city limits of Memphis and they are all a bunch of gun hating commies. At least we got some decent ones in some of the burbs. I don't get why Fed Ex has such a hangup with this, their parking lot is in a ROUGH part of town (I know, I used to live next to the airport) you would think they would have some concern for the safety of their employees, but apparently not.

[DRM]

I have really mixed feelings on this bill, and to be honest - my view remains that property owner rights should trump your gun carry rights... period.

IMHO, better legislation would be to simply make illegal to fire or otherwise punish someone for carrying on your property. If the law could be written where the property owner's only recourse is to request that the gun be removed from their property - and not fire you, or otherwise punish you - I think that would be a good law to have.

But again - I have to view this as a property rights issue, and if I own a piece of property, I think it is WRONG for the government to be able to tell me I *have* to let you bring a gun on my property, if I don't want one there.

[K191145]

I have really mixed feelings on this bill, and to be honest - my view remains that property owner rights should trump your gun carry rights... period.

IMHO, better legislation would be to simply make illegal to fire or otherwise punish someone for carrying on your property. If the law could be written where the property owner's only recourse is to request that the gun be removed from their property - and not fire you, or otherwise punish you - I think that would be a good law to have.

But again - I have to view this as a property rights issue, and if I own a piece of property, I think it is WRONG for the government to be able to tell me I *have* to let you bring a gun on my property, if I don't want one there.

Yea I thought about that also being private property. What I would like to see is a bill that would allow HCP holders to lock their gun up in their vehicle in the parking lot when stopping at the post office on their way home. It's a real inconvenience to drive home just to secure your gun and go back to the post office, or park at the Sonic next door. I don't know if a state could pass a law that would over ride a federal regulation.

[Guest tonybon]

Is my car not my private property? I drive 72 miles one way to work pull a 12.5 hour shift and 72 miles back home 14 days a mth. I cant have a gun on company property, soooo i dont have right to protect myself even tho the state of tennessee says i can carry a hand gun? the property owner gets to override state law? SORRY im a little touchy on this one!

[DRM]

Is my car not my private property? I drive 72 miles one way to work pull a 12.5 hour shift and 72 miles back home 14 days a mth. I cant have a gun on company property, soooo i dont have right to protect myself even tho the state of tennessee says i can carry a hand gun? the property owner gets to override state law? SORRY im a little touchy on this one!

So are you saying I should be able to come to your house and park on your property and have guns in my car - even if you don't want them there?

I like my guns, and my right to protect myself... but if you don't want guns on YOUR property - I can't see any logical reason your right to determine that should be taken away... can you?

[Guest Jamie]

So are you saying I should be able to come to your house and park on your property and have guns in my car - even if you don't want them there?

I like my guns, and my right to protect myself... but if you don't want guns on YOUR property - I can't see any logical reason your right to determine that should be taken away... can you?

On private residential property, no, no one should be able to tell you what you can or cannot have there.

On private business property, on the other hand, I can see where concessions could and should be made for employees and their property, so long as the two don't interfere with each other. In other words, so long as the gun doesn't leave the employee's vehicle, there shouldn't be a problem. No more so than if a delivery truck shows up and has an item the property owner doesn't like, on board with the business owner's items.

It's basically none of the business owner's... business... what else may or may not be on the truck, anymore than it should be his concern what is or isn't in the employee's vehicle, so long as it stays there.

Make any sense?

[Guest SUNTZU]

There is a simple solution to that problem, IMO.

[E4 No More]

What I keep locked in my truck is nobody's business but mine. Business owners post those regs to mitigate liability: otherwise they'd be conducting searches.

[Guest tonybon]

If your open for bussiness it's no longer private property. Like jamie said you don't know what in in that UPS truck or that freight truck. They dont search them for wepons do they? When the meader reader comes to read your meter do you search him first? If its out of site and locked up then what is the problem? If i read the law right walmart can post their property as NO GUNS ON PROPERTY with the proper signige. Then how would you feel. what if ALL bussiness's posted their property. Then you could only protect your self at home or park in the street.

[DRM]

On private residential property, no, no one should be able to tell you what you can or cannot have there.

On private business property, on the other hand, I can see where concessions could and should be made for employees and their property, so long as the two don't interfere with each other. In other words, so long as the gun doesn't leave the employee's vehicle, there shouldn't be a problem. No more so than if a delivery truck shows up and has an item the property owner doesn't like, on board with the business owner's items.

It's basically none of the business owner's... business... what else may or may not be on the truck, anymore than it should be his concern what is or isn't in the employee's vehicle, so long as it stays there.

Make any sense?

No, actually I don't see where you are able to draw a distinction between types of property. Actually - my guess is you don't own any business property, correct? Because if you did - you'd pretty quickly see that there really is little difference, at least I would hope you would.

That is YOUR property, and YOU should be able to decide if you want guns there or not. Period. I don't care if you own it personally, or you and your wife own it through an LLC. That should be irrelevant, since you are still the owner and it should be your decision to make.

As far as employees, again - property RIGHTS should trump your PRIVILEGE to carry a gun around on MY property. But like I said - I think there should be laws stating that the only recourse a property owner has is to demand that the gun be removed from their property - they shouldn't be able to fire you, or otherwise punish you in relation to your job.

[DRM]

If your open for bussiness it's no longer private property.

Uhhh, no. "Private property" is a legal definition that does not change depending on whether or not you operate a business on said property.

Like jamie said you don't know what in in that UPS truck or that freight truck.

I have every right to tell the UPS driver to leave my property if I feel they have freight I do not want on my property.

They dont search them for wepons do they?

My right to *ask* you to remove you/your weapon from my property does NOT give me the right to "search" your person... that would be potentially be battery as soon as I touch you.

When the meader reader comes to read your meter do you search him first? If its out of site and locked up then what is the problem?

I'm sorry, I guess you misunderstand how property rights work. The 'problem" is that it is MY property, not YOURS. that means - within the law - MY rules apply, not YOURS.

If I don't want you smoking on my property - I get to ask you to leave. I don't have to have a reason, it's MY property, and you *should* respect that, correct?

If i read the law right walmart can post their property as NO GUNS ON PROPERTY with the proper signige. Then how would you feel. what if ALL bussiness's posted their property. Then you could only protect your self at home or park in the street.

How would I feel? Well, I thought I was being pretty clear so far but I would be disappointed in their decision, but I'd feel fine, because it is THEIR PROPERTY not mine... so they get to decide.

I think some of you need to step back and consider that property rights are one of the reasons you *have* gun rights... don't let yourself get clouded and forget which one is there to serve the other.

[Guest misanthrope747]

No, actually I don't see where you are able to draw a distinction between types of property. Actually - my guess is you don't own any business property, correct? Because if you did - you'd pretty quickly see that there really is little difference, at least I would hope you would.

That is YOUR property, and YOU should be able to decide if you want guns there or not. Period. I don't care if you own it personally, or you and your wife own it through an LLC. That should be irrelevant, since you are still the owner and it should be your decision to make.

As far as employees, again - property RIGHTS should trump your PRIVILEGE to carry a gun around on MY property. But like I said - I think there should be laws stating that the only recourse a property owner has is to demand that the gun be removed from their property - they shouldn't be able to fire you, or otherwise punish you in relation to your job.

I'm a strong believer in property rights but I believe allowing guns to be kept in vehicles is a reasonable accommodation. That allows employers to keep buildings and other areas of their property controlled as they see fit and allows employees to carry to and from work.

m747

[DRM]

I'm a strong believer in property rights but I believe allowing guns to be kept in vehicles is a reasonable accommodation. That allows employers to keep buildings and other areas of their property controlled as they see fit and allows employees to carry to and from work.

m747

I guess I can put it this way - I am open to legislation that can meet the needs of both property owners and those who wish to carry. However - any time the two come up against each other, I can pretty much say that the deference should by default be given to the property holder.

But *forcing* property owners to give up their rights is NOT the answer here.

So anyone have any compromise suggestions? I am open to suggestions, but every option I have seen proposed basically tells the property owner they no longer have the rights to control their property as they see fit... and IMHO, that is a grievous attack on our rights.

[DRM]

Let me ask it this way:

I own DRM's Hardware store. I own the building, and the property it sits on, including the parking lot.

Can someone give me one reason why I should have my property rights removed from me to be able to control the removal of a perceived threat being brought on my property?

Should I have the right to ask you to remove a trailer load of fireworks from my property - because I perceive it to be a threat to my property, person, or patrons?

Should I have the right to ask you to remove a menacing dog (enclosed in your car) - because I perceive it to be a threat to my property, person, or patrons?

Again - this question should NOT be approached from the gun viewpoint, it MUST be approached from the view of the greater concern: the government RESTRICTING my property rights.

[Guest Jamie]

No, actually I don't see where you are able to draw a distinction between types of property. Actually - my guess is you don't own any business property, correct? Because if you did - you'd pretty quickly see that there really is little difference, at least I would hope you would.

I don't currently but I have before... and there is most certainly a difference between residential and business property.

For one, the public is NEVER invited into my residence, but had to be, to one degree or the other, with my business.

And there were all sorts of other people than no longer needed an invitation at all, due to it being a business.

So yes, there's a very real difference between the two, whether you choose to see it or not.

That is YOUR property, and YOU should be able to decide if you want guns there or not. Period. I don't care if you own it personally, or you and your wife own it through an LLC. That should be irrelevant, since you are still the owner and it should be your decision to make.

Well, it could also be said that you could choose NOT to run/own a business if you don't want certain people or things on your property... you have that right too, y'know.

As far as employees, again - property RIGHTS should trump your PRIVILEGE to carry a gun around on MY property. But like I said - I think there should be laws stating that the only recourse a property owner has is to demand that the gun be removed from their property - they shouldn't be able to fire you, or otherwise punish you in relation to your job.

Oh, so when it involves you, it's a RIGHT, but when it involves someone else, it's a PRIVILEGE?

Yeah, that's gonna fly... NOT!

Can we all say "DISCRIMINATION SUIT JUST LOOKING FOR A VICTIM/PLAINTIFF"?

The very second you tell someone else you have a RIGHT, but they don't... in this case, to self-defense... you're pretty much screwed. And that's one of the main reasons I think the parking lot law will be passed fairly soon.

[DRM]

Oh, so when it involves you, it's a RIGHT, but when it involves someone else, it's a PRIVILEGE?

I think you need to brush up on what is a right, and what is a privilege. Those are clearly defined terms, not just me tossing words around.

You carrying a gun on to my property is NOT a right - it is a privilege by definition in the state of TN.

[E4 No More]

Then add in the places that receive huge tax breaks from local government to operate their business there like Dell? Property given or sold to them for a song at tax-payer's expense. Think only Dell gets that? How about GM, Nissan, Toyota, etc. Since our tax dollars go to fund that purchase, do they still have the right as to if it's their private property? Again, what's in my truck is my dang business!

[DRM]

Then add in the places that receive huge tax breaks from local government to operate their business there like Dell? Property given or sold to them for a song at tax-payer's expense. Think only Dell gets that? How about GM, Nissan, Toyota, etc. Since our tax dollars go to fund that purchase, do they still have the right as to if it's their private property? Again, what's in my truck is my dang business!

I'll ignore the first part - because it's irrelevant.

So is it your position that you can have ANYTHING (otherwise legal) in your vehicle you want - on my property - and I have to let you leave your vehicle on MY property?

Is that really the position you are advocating? Because I'll be honest - I have no clue how some of you can advocate wholesale abandonment of basic property rights just because you want to have your gun with you.

[PC7]

property RIGHTS should trump your PRIVILEGE to carry a gun around

Privilege, you say. I always thought the Second Amendment was a Constitutional right.