Protest Easy Guns

[The Rabbi]

Protest Easy Guns campaign is coming to Nashville, Fri Oct 5.

Why anyone thinks this is new and/or different is beyond me. But it will elicit the same garbage comments it always does.

http://www.protesteasyguns.com/about.html#upcoming

Check the thread at arf.com

[molonlabetn]

Who's up for an OC meetup in Nashville that afternoon?

[Marswolf]

That would just give them more free publicity.

Better to have a demonstration at a different time complaining about the draconian restrictions for good citizens to purchase a firearm.

[molonlabetn]

Could print up a few hundred of these, given Oleg's permission:

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/gunfree0352.jpg.html

Publicity, perhaps... but truthfully, the strongest defense would be an offense. Any action should be with due measure and consideration, of course.

[Guest Old Chief]

Now that is a poster that I can agree with.

[dunndw]

Have these idiots every purchased a gun...or were they spoon fed their "talking points" and like good little sheep they're going with the program

[SkWaShDeM]

If it smells like a sheep, follows it's fellow sheep around with blind faith, and runs away at the first sign of the big bad wolf in the middle of the sheep pen... It's probably a sheep.

[Guest jcoyle6]

Don't worry, Oleg has given you permission. You are using his work as it is intended.

[Guest Len]

While I doubt just "having" a gun would have stopped Cho (you better know how to use it while under extreme stress), I've gotta say that the gun-banners movement would be better served by people who actually know what they are talking about. Complete ignorance, just complete.

If this woman was an animal rights activist, she probably wouldn't be able to tell a cat from a dog. (Hint, the cat is designed to be fired from the hip...)

The more extremism I am exposed to, the more ignorance I am exposed to 99 times out of 100.

[Marswolf]

I guess I'm missing it. What's wrong with the poster?

[Guest Len]

I was commenting mostly about the Protest Easy Guns video. ("The woman" I refer to is in the video, not the person holding the pistol in the poster.)

The poster is fine, I was just making a "pro-training" comment (a shock, I know...) saying that just "HAVING" a gun is not enough -knowing how to use it under stress is just as important.

I guess I'm missing it. What's wrong with the poster?

[saintsfanbrian]

Can we keep cars out of prohibit hands?

I dare some one to go to their protest CC and have your picture taken with the leader. Make sure to wear something that prints a little bit so we know you actually had it one you at the time.

[towerclimber37]

hahahahah Brian, you are evil...EVIL I tell you!!!

[Beretta Racer]

Let them have their fun. They are wasting their time here.

They will get ZERO TV News coverage at the station I work for. That's a fact.

[Marswolf]

I was just making a "pro-training" comment (a shock, I know...) saying that just "HAVING" a gun is not enough -knowing how to use it under stress is just as important.

This is what bothers me about a lot of the "training" we see advertised. Much of it gives the impression of preparing shooters for action under stress but I'm afraid that training is largely an illusion.

I'm not talking about you, Len. You and your folks seem pretty level headed about what training you offer. I'm talking about so much of the Rambozo training that's supposed to train you to become an "operator" or something equally laughable. I'm afraid there are a lot of people who take some of this "training" but who are not prepared mentally to act when a bad situation actually happens. And they don't have a clue about that. I suspect a lot of these pretend soldiers will be of little use to either themselves or their supposed comrades if the time should ever come for action.

[/rantoff]

[The Rabbi]

This is what bothers me about a lot of the "training" we see advertised. Much of it gives the impression of preparing shooters for action under stress but I'm afraid that training is largely an illusion.

I'm not talking about you, Len. You and your folks seem pretty level headed about what training you offer. I'm talking about so much of the Rambozo training that's supposed to train you to become an "operator" or something equally laughable. I'm afraid there are a lot of people who take some of this "training" but who are not prepared mentally to act when a bad situation actually happens. And they don't have a clue about that. I suspect a lot of these pretend soldiers will be of little use to either themselves or their supposed comrades if the time should ever come for action.

[/rantoff]

Actually it's a fact that some large number of both soldiers and police officers are incapable of firing on another person under stress. I am glad I will likely never have to be in that situation. I couldn't predict with any certainty whether I could or not. I know philosophically I have no problem with it. But it is an unknown.

[fury2neon]

Actually it's a fact that some large number of both soldiers and police officers are incapable of firing on another person under stress. I am glad I will likely never have to be in that situation. I couldn't predict with any certainty whether I could or not. I know philosophically I have no problem with it. But it is an unknown.

Only those who have been there and done that know for sure. I agree with you I hope I don't have to find out. As the Romans said "pray for peace and prepare for war."

[towerclimber37]

Only those who have been there and done that know for sure. I agree with you I hope I don't have to find out. As the Romans said "pray for peace and prepare for war."

heheh we have a word for those guys that can't properly engage the enemy...several in fact..

one would be "toc-roach"...another and more older term..."remf":D

[Marswolf]

Now Tower, a lot of remf's (or fobbits these days) never get a chance to find out it they can pull the trigger. Unfortunately, with modern technology we need a lot of remf's.

But I agree with everyone. You never know if you can "operate" until the time comes. Training just gives you a skill set. Whether you can act on it, is another matter.

[towerclimber37]

true...and every time it happens...there's always something new..so I guess the possibility of freezing is always there so I guess you can't really judge someone unless you were there...civillian OR professional.

[Guest Len]

Agreed all around.

Another issue to confront is that there are many folks out there who are philosophically opposed to using deadly force. So, putting a gun in their hands is useless for possibly two reasons -not being able to "operate" under stress and not being willing to take a life.

And I would argue that for some people, BOTH issues are unknown. These folks won't know if they can perform under stress or be willing to pull the trigger until confronted with the situation. I'd go out on a limb and say that there are many more of these people out there than are willing to admit it.

Unless you've "been there/done that" you don't know for sure. Not 100% at least. I imagine there is some philosophical comfort in knowing for sure -either way.

[Marswolf]

Unless you've "been there/done that" you don't know for sure. Not 100% at least.

That's true, but after a while you get to where you can do a pretty accurate prediction about who will perform and who won't. The quiet but resolute guys do fine. It's the blowhards who want to be the center of attention you have to watch out for. You also have to watch out for the joiners. There seem to be a lot of people doing "operator training" who do it just to be part of some imaginary club of Rambo-like trainees.

[DaveTN]

No amount of anti-gun legislation could have stopped Cho from obtaining a gun. I think we can all agree that is a fact. Drugs are illegal but if you want them you can get them.

What we do not know, and will never know is what would have happened if Cho had encountered armed citizens in the first room he walked into. But I don’t think it could have ended any worse than it did.

Training isn’t an issue with these people either. They just don’t want you to have guns.

Cho could have used a car, ax, or chain saw and there would still be a flurry of hand wringers thinking that there needs to be some kind of legislation to address what happened.

[DaveTN]

There seem to be a lot of people doing "operator training" who do it just to be part of some imaginary club of Rambo-like trainees.

Ouch... that’s going to leave a mark.

[Marswolf]

Dave, lots of people get training for a lot of good reasons. Military people are constantly retrained both by formal training and experience. Lots of LEOs go back and get extra training to give them an edge. But these folks train with people who actually know how to execute the skills and are proven by experience to be able to do so. The military is trained by instructors who always have been in these types of experiences. LEOs generally, although not always, train with people with a lot of real world experience. Lately we have seen some LEO training by "operator wannabes", but that's not the rule and officers who would train with them are not top line people anyway. And it's a waste of their money. You can't train the stupid.

In the past few months, I've been exposed to more civilians who want to pretend they are "operators" by getting training from people who have little or no experience themselves in that area than I even knew existed. Nothing wrong with doing that to gain some skills or for fun, but a lot of these students seem to actually think this makes them capable of executing battle plans.

That's scary and also pitiful.

And we see examples of students and teachers who get themselves into trouble, along with their comrades in arms, by imagining themselves capable of executing special operations. I was talking to a friend in Baghdad a couple of weeks ago who is now a contractor for a major firm. He's retired career Army SF and knows what he is doing. He told me several horror stories about neophyte Rambozos who work for other firms and get themselves and others into jeopardy by their attitude and lack of experience.

As I say, there is nothing wrong with this sort of training for the public as long as the instructors make sure the students know this doesn't make them into real soldiers or supermen. But the training field unfortunately has a lot of hypesters who want to bring in the students and their money with glitz and flash and there seem to be plenty of marks willing to fall for it.