TGI Friday's in Memphis on Winchester "no guns allowed"

[Guest HexHead]

If you won't stand up for what you believe in, you have already lost.

I tend to think the majority here are just a bunch of pansy whiners with no real backbone. I prefer to live with a spine, even if it pisses people off.

Again, how does pissing off the restaurant owners and them putting up the correct sign in retaliation help us?

What am I missing here?

[TNRobocop]

The OC people fail to realize that there is only one reason the whole OC is allowed and that it was written into the law so that you would not get in trouble if somehow somebody saw you carrying, i.e. your shirt came up or something similar.

Not so people can run around being attention whores and getting places off limits to HCP individuals.

The placards mean squat to me. I am allowed to carry anywhere, sign or not. I do have a HCP also and my wife will be carrying when she gets back home. By getting places to ban that before people had diareah of the mouth wouldn't have thought twice about is counter-productive.

I wish TN was a CCW state instead. Would make life alot easier on those of us that just wish to carry quietly like it was in Oklahoma where I moved from.

[moondawg]

My family and I went to a local catfish restraunt. As we were leaving, my brother asked the cashier if we were going to be able to bring our guns in on July 14th. The cashier didn't look like she had a clue, and I spoke up, saying he was just kidding and got him out of there. I noticed on the way out that it was NOT posted. I asked him what he was thinking and why he did that...no sense in drawing attention to the fact the one of us might carry a gun in the place (we weren't, they serve alcohol). He stated that he WANTED them to post and prohibit guns in the restraunt.

Funny thing is, he has a carry permit! I love my brother, but he can be a bonehead sometimes!

[TNRobocop]

Your brother needs a smack in the head, or the nuts, or both.

[Guest drcoffee]

you need to carry there more than anywhere. Where else will a criminal go, they openly advertise that all other stores will have guns but TGIF.

Carry a small pocket pistol just in case and go enjoy the meal. How will they know either way, unless you wave it around or let it show. probably not a good place to stuff your 45 in your waist band but I'd be willing to toss my LCP in my jacket or front pocket. Better safe than sorry.

[Guest crotalus01]

The OC people fail to realize that there is only one reason the whole OC is allowed and that it was written into the law so that you would not get in trouble if somehow somebody saw you carrying, i.e. your shirt came up or something similar.

Not so people can run around being attention whores and getting places off limits to HCP individuals. .

Huh. I didn't realize me not wanting to be hassled by bums or, God forbid, have to use deadly force to defend myself made me an attention whore. Perhaps you CC people secretly want to kill someone in self defense and thus the reason for your so-called "element of suprise?"

The placards mean squat to me. I am allowed to carry anywhere, sign or not. I do have a HCP also and my wife will be carrying when she gets back home. By getting places to ban that before people had diareah of the mouth wouldn't have thought twice about is counter-productive.

Maybe Nashville is different, but the places here that posted were going to post regardless. OC had nothing to do with it. But then again why should you care? You have more rights than us lowly serfs and can carry in any manner wherever you please...

I wish TN was a CCW state instead. Would make life alot easier on those of us that just wish to carry quietly like it was in Oklahoma where I moved from.

Perhaps a return is in order since you are so uncomfortable with the law here in Tennessee?

For the record, I have only CCed in restaurants that serve since the law has taken effect.

[Guest TN_Mike]

The OC people fail to realize that there is only one reason the whole OC is allowed and that it was written into the law so that you would not get in trouble if somehow somebody saw you carrying, i.e. your shirt came up or something similar.

Not so people can run around being attention whores and getting places off limits to HCP individuals.

The placards mean squat to me. I am allowed to carry anywhere, sign or not. I do have a HCP also and my wife will be carrying when she gets back home. By getting places to ban that before people had diareah of the mouth wouldn't have thought twice about is counter-productive.

Actually, as one of the stupid OC people you seem to look down on, I can tell you that you are incorrect. The OC portion of the law was not written in just to keep people legal if they print. Here is the text of the Tennessee AG opinion on the matter:

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CMICHAE%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> S T A T E O F T E N N E S S E E<o></o>

OFFICE OF THE<o></o>

ATTORNEY GENERAL<o></o>

<st1></st1><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">BOX</st1:street> 20207</st1:address><o></o>

<st1><st1:city w:st="on">NASHVILLE</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">TENNESSEE</st1:state><st1></st1></st1><o></o>

October 11, 2005<o></o>

Opinion No. 05-154<o></o>

Civilian Handgun Permits

<o></o>

QUESTIONS<o></o>

<o></o>

1. Does <st1>Tennessee<st1:state w:st="on"></st1:state></st1> law require that individuals who have been issued civilian handgun<o></o> permits under Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1351 carry the handgun(s) concealed?

<o></o>

2. If Tennessee law does not require concealment of a handgun by a civilian handgun<o></o> permit holder, may a law enforcement officer legally arrest an individual for carrying a handgun openly in <st1><st1:state w:st="on">Tennessee</st1:state></st1> if the individual is not carrying it in a prohibited location (e.g., courtroom)?

<o></o>

3. May a law enforcement officer legally seize a handgun carry permit from an<o></o> individual when that individual is arrested or charged with a crime?

<o></o>

OPINIONS<o></o>

<o></o>

1. No. Neither Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1351, nor any other statute governing the<o></o> carrying of firearms, requires the holder of a handgun carry permit to carry the handgun in a concealed manner.

<o></o>

2. Yes. A handgun carry permit holder may be arrested for carrying a handgun openly<o></o> if he or she is using the handgun to commit a crime, or is otherwise engaged in criminal activity while carrying the handgun.

<o></o>

3. No. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1352© states that a law enforcement officer may only<o></o> seize a handgun carry permit when directed to do so by the Department of Safety.

<o></o>

ANALYSIS<o></o>

<o></o>

1. The primary objective of statutory construction is to ascertain legislative intent. If<o></o> the language of the statute is clear and unambiguous, courts are supposed to ascertain that intent from the plain and ordinary meaning of the language. Honsa v. Tombigbee Transport Corp., 141 S.W.3d 540 (<st1:state w:st="on"><st1>Tenn.</st1></st1:state>2004)<o></o>.

The plain meaning of the statutes governing, or prohibiting, the carrying of handguns and<o></o> other weapons indicates that, in situations where the legislature has permitted the carrying of

<o></o>

Page 2

<o></o>

handguns, the legislature intended to authorize the carrying of handguns both openly and concealed. The statutes governing the wearing and carrying of firearms neither expressly prohibit the permit holder from carrying a handgun openly, nor expressly require the permit holder to carry the handgun concealed.<o></o>

Reading Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1351 in pari materia with §§ 39-17-1307 and 1308(a)(2) indicates that the legislature intended to allow carry permit holders to carry their handguns both openly and concealed. If the legislature had intended to require a permit holder to carry his or her handgun concealed, it would have done so by prohibiting the open carrying of a handgun and expressly requiring the concealed carry of a handgun.

<o></o>

2. As set forth in part 1, above, the holder of a handgun carry permit may lawfully carry his or her handgun both openly and concealed.3 Therefore, a permit holder should not be subject to arrest solely because the handgun is being carried openly. There is nothing, however, in any of the statutes cited in part 1 that would prohibit the arrest of a handgun permit holder for other crimes.4<o></o>

<o></o>

3. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1352© is the only statute which authorizes law<o></o> enforcement officers to seize handgun carry permits. It allows law enforcement officers to seize permits only at the direction of the Department of Safety, after a permit has been suspended or revoked. There are no statutes authorizing a law enforcement officer to seize a handgun carry permit under any other circumstances.<o></o>

Under rules of statutory construction, the expression of one thing implies the exclusion of<o></o> others. State v. Adler, 92 S.W.3d 397 (<st1:state w:st="on"><st1>Tenn.</st1></st1:state> 2002). The failure to authorize law enforcement officers to seize permits, except under the narrow grant of authority in Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1352©, indicates that the legislature did not intend to authorize law enforcement officers to seize handgun carry permits except at the direction of the Department of Safety, pursuant to Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1352©.

<o></o>

PAUL G. SUMMERS<o></o>

Attorney General

<o></o>

MICHAEL E. MOORE<o></o>

Solicitor General

<o></o>

LIZABETH A. HALE<o></o>

Assistant Attorney General

<o></o>

Requested by:<o></o>

Hon. Ben West, Jr.<o></o>

State Representative<o></o>

<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on"></st1:street></st1:address>

I wish TN was a CCW state instead. Would make life alot easier on those of us that just wish to carry quietly like it was in Oklahoma where I moved from.

So do us, and yourself, a favor and move back to Oklahoma. We'd get along just fine without you.

Edited September 7, 2009 by TN_Mike

[deerslayer]

An Attorny General's opinion of a law tells little of the motivation behind getting the law passed. I think keeping accidental "printers" out of harm's way was a big reason some lawmakers initially pushed for no required concealment. Having said that, I don't want a concealed-only law. I just wish more OCers were a little more aware and concious of (and concerned about) the image they that they provide for the sheep.

[Guest crotalus01]

I agree, Deerslayer. I do NOT OC in serving restaraunts in the current climate for the simple fact that OC might freak the sheep out. I continue to OC on the restaurants that I have been OCing in (ones that do not serve). I have had zero negative encounters with the owners of these establishments.

I agree with much of what TPS-TNRobocop has to say, but I really resent the accusation that because I choose to OC I am an attention whore. Let him try living in Memfrica for a bit - I bet he would choose to OC as well. Unless he likes to make daily donations to the super aggressive bums here...when they see a sidearm they magically veer either left or right which is the one of the main reasons I choose to OC.

The + (plus) side is the cops here are used to it, so there are rarely any hassels. I am sure that in a smaller town this would be an issue (harrasment or rather being stopped to check that you have a permit), but not here. Many MPD cops will tell you they LIKE to see citizens OCing as it often saves them calls to crime AND less paperwork. YMMV...

[Guest TN_Mike]

I really resent the accusation that because I choose to OC I am an attention whore. Let him try living in Memfrica for a bit - I bet he would choose to OC as well. Unless he likes to make daily donations to the super aggressive bums here...when they see a sidearm they magically veer either left or right which is the one of the main reasons I choose to OC.

The + (plus) side is the cops here are used to it, so there are rarely any hassels. I am sure that in a smaller town this would be an issue (harrasment or rather being stopped to check that you have a permit), but not here. Many MPD cops will tell you they LIKE to see citizens OCing as it often saves them calls to crime AND less paperwork. YMMV...

Agreed. I actually live out in the County and I can tell you that the Shelby County Sheriffs Office are trained very well that citizens can and do open carry. I have had several tell me that they like seeing us open carry. I have never had anyone freak out at the sight of my safely holstered XD.

I have also open carried down in Memphis proper and never been hassled by the MPD (who I have a much lower opinion of that the Sheriffs Department) and did even once get a thumbs up from an MPD officer while walking down Union in front of Huey's.

And I too have had the aggressive bums catch sight of my sidearm and turn and walk away. When I have either been cc or unarmed (because of work) I am usually hit up for money from these people.

Edited September 8, 2009 by TN_Mike

[Guest dart67eb]

Just drove by the TGI Friday's in Memphis on Winchester. They have already posted a blue and white "notice - no guns allowed" sign.

It's a shame. I liked most of their food too. My wife is just as steamed as I am about it.

I wonder if it is a corporate thing?

You need one there