Less or Non-Lethal SD

[The Rabbi]

I hope no one here ever has to find out just how wrong that statement is.

And this coming from someone who admits he has no idea what the law in TN is.

[quote=DaveTN;24939

Again… I would have to see that simply being scared justifies the use of deadly force in Tennessee.

You will never see that because that isn't how the law reads. Nor is that what I wrote. Or even close to it.

If you have trouble reading material and interpreting it correctly ......

[DaveTN]

You will never see that because that isn't how the law reads. Nor is that what I wrote. Or even close to it.

If you have trouble reading material and interpreting it correctly ......

Okay… I’m apparently having problems with reading comprehension. How else can the following statement be interpreted.

But as I said at the outset, if it warrants using a taser then it warrants using bullets.

I said I’m not arguing Tennessee law. I’m looking to you for information and guidance oh great one. That statement is absolute BS in any state I’m familiar with and I am asking what in the Tennessee law would give any creditability to that statement.

Fill me in.

[nb forrest]

TN law states that you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force if you are in fear of death or serious bodily harm. You are not obligated to retreat first. If someone charges you with a knife you could taser him, use a baton or run but he still might cut you, I personally would eliminate the threat with two to the chest and take my chances in court. One might say you should run but what if you trip. one might say you should of tasered him or used pepper spray, but what they had no effect. There are to many variables that come into play. If I'm in fear enough to use pepper spray, a taser or a baton then the situation warrants bullets. Thats just my opinion though.

[The Rabbi]

TN law states that you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force if you are in fear of death or serious bodily harm. You are not obligated to retreat first. If someone charges you with a knife you could taser him, use a baton or run but he still might cut you, I personally would eliminate the threat with two to the chest and take my chances in court. One might say you should run but what if you trip. one might say you should of tasered him or used pepper spray, but what they had no effect. There are to many variables that come into play. If I'm in fear enough to use pepper spray, a taser or a baton then the situation warrants bullets. Thats just my opinion though.

That pretty well summarizes it.

[molonlabetn]

Thing is... there is a lower 'form' of fear or intention to commit bodily injury known as 'Assault'. Assault is a misdemeanor.

Also:

38-2-102. Resistance by party about to be injured. —

Resistance sufficient to prevent the offense may be made by the party about to be injured to prevent an:

(1) Offense against the party's person; or

(2) Illegal attempt by force to take or injure property in the party's lawful possession.

[/size][/font]

Only sufficient force required to prevent an offense is justified.

And:

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]39-13-102. Aggravated assault. —[/b][/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b](a) [/b]A person commits aggravated assault who:[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b](1) [/b]Intentionally or knowingly commits an assault as defined in § [color=#0000ff]39-13-101[/color] and:[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b](A) [/b]Causes serious bodily injury to another; or[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]( [/b]Uses or displays a deadly weapon; or[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b](2) [/b]Recklessly commits an assault as defined in § [color=#0000ff]39-13-101[/color](a)(1), and:[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b](A) [/b]Causes serious bodily injury to another; or[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]( [/b]Uses or displays a deadly weapon.[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]( [/b]A person commits aggravated assault who, being the parent or custodian of a child or the custodian of an adult, intentionally or knowingly fails or refuses to protect the child or adult from an aggravated assault as defined in subdivision (a)(1) or aggravated child abuse as defined in § [color=#0000ff]39-15-402[/color].[/size][/font]

Introducing a deadly-weapon into a confrontation which would be considered assault upon you, might be interpreted as Aggravated Assault by you... which is a Felony.

Would I commit a Felony to prevent a Misdemeanor?

Uh, that would be no...

[DaveTN]

That pretty well summarizes it.

So… you are driving down the street and someone cuts you off. In traffic, almost hitting you. You and the other driver have the typical road rage exchanges.

You pull into a gas station to get gas and the other driver pulls in. He gets out of his car yelling and cussing at you asking you WTH you think you were doing. You try to walk away but he grabs you by the shoulder and spins you back around, yelling “don’t walk away when I am talking to you!”

I suggest that if you believe he is going to hit you, you are justified in hitting him or using mace.

You are saying that under Tennessee law you can just kill him and call it a day. You just tell the cops you were scared and everything is okay?

Does that pretty well sum up your understanding of the Tennessee deadly force laws?

[The Rabbi]

So… you are driving down the street and someone cuts you off. In traffic, almost hitting you. You and the other driver have the typical road rage exchanges.

You pull into a gas station to get gas and the other driver pulls in. He gets out of his car yelling and cussing at you asking you WTH you think you were doing. You try to walk away but he grabs you by the shoulder and spins you back around, yelling “don’t walk away when I am talking to you!â€

I suggest that if you believe he is going to hit you, you are justified in hitting him or using mace.

You are saying that under Tennessee law you can just kill him and call it a day. You just tell the cops you were scared and everything is okay?

Does that pretty well sum up your understanding of the Tennessee deadly force laws?

If you have an actual scenario to ask about I'd suggest calling an attorney to discuss it.

[nb forrest]

So… you are driving down the street and someone cuts you off. In traffic, almost hitting you. You and the other driver have the typical road rage exchanges.

You pull into a gas station to get gas and the other driver pulls in. He gets out of his car yelling and cussing at you asking you WTH you think you were doing. You try to walk away but he grabs you by the shoulder and spins you back around, yelling “don’t walk away when I am talking to you!â€

I suggest that if you believe he is going to hit you, you are justified in hitting him or using mace.

You are saying that under Tennessee law you can just kill him and call it a day. You just tell the cops you were scared and everything is okay?

Does that pretty well sum up your understanding of the Tennessee deadly force laws?

I see no threat of serious bodily harm in your scenario, so no deadly force would not be apropriate. If you maced him you might be charged with assault. These kind of situations call for a little common sense.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

I see no threat of serious bodily harm in your scenario, so no deadly force would not be apropriate. If you maced him you might be charged with assault. These kind of situations call for a little common sense.

I would highly doubt that you'd be charged with assault. By him laying his hands on you, spinning you around, he has assaulted you at the least, and an argument could be made that he forcibly restrained you against your will. In both of those situations, you have a justification for using an appropriate amount of force. Notice I did not say deadly force.

Remember, it's all about how you articulate your position to the police. If there are witnesses present who can back up your story, all the better. But, you better be dang sure you can articulate a reason why you felt you were in some form of danger.

"Officer, I was attempting to leave, and this gentleman graabed me in an aggressive manner, spinning me around 180 degrees, yelling at me. I felt threatened and believed that if I didn't do something to stop the threat, he was going to escalate his attack on me. I am trained to use pepper spray, and keep some on my person. As I was being attacked, I defended myself by spraying the mace at my attacker. Once sprayed, he stopped his attack, so I called 911."

[towerclimber37]

Frank, I agree with you....I doubt seriously that any police officer would find you at fault if HE TOUCHES YOU FIRST...Neither would a Judge,IMO

You can yell at me all day long but you'd do better to sandpaper your tail and slide down a road flare than to touch me.

[Guest Phantom6]

Interesting conversation here. Does anyone know a good place to get trained to use a baton and where then to purchase one? Recommendations?

Also, I have heard their is training in using OC spray available, but have never seen such. Anyone know anything about this?

Len, if you can wait just a bit on that training, we are in the process of ramping up for a contract with a large company that has selected our organization as a vendor/contractor to handle all of their training which will require that our instructors be certified at trainers in O.C and the A.S.P. baton as well as NRA/DOS firearms instructors. Obviously we have the NRA/DOS firearms instructor stuff down pat but the O.C. and A.S.P. training must be up to date soon. I have been certified for a PR-24 baton for years and used to train LEO's on that wonderful little piece of equipment but the A.S.P. is a different animal and the techniques are quite different. I'll get back to you in about a week on this if you wish. Oh BTW, though we don't strike you with the baton or shoot you with the pistol, patrol rifle or shotgun, contamination is manditory with the O.C. training.

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For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle... The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; And there was peace.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

Oh BTW, though we don't strike you with the baton or shoot you with the pistol, patrol rifle or shotgun, contamination is manditory with the O.C. training.

Ouch!!!

[Guest Boomhower]

Ouch!!!

That pretty much sums it up........again:rofl:

[The Rabbi]

That pretty much sums it up........again:rofl:

Nothing compared to descriptions I've heard from people who went through Taser training. Can you say OUCH?

[towerclimber37]

now THAT would be a great weapon for a reVOLT!

[fury2neon]

now THAT would be a great weapon for a reVOLT!

Oh, bad pun, very bad pun...

[towerclimber37]

yah, I was using my PUNcil to post up...

[fury2neon]

Tower, you are on a roll tonight...

[Guest crytes]

I've never been hit whith a stun gun but can't understand how it can disable someone past contact. Ive been hit whith enough juice that it almost killed me and blew holes in my hands and was up again almost as soon as the power was cut. Besides sour muscles the only thing that really hurt was the burns, so how can a handfull of AAA bateries disable someone long enough to be defensive. Also as said before I wouldn't taser someone unless I feared for my life so why carry the extra less effective equipment.

Crytes

[Guest ETS_Inc]

crytes,

That's pretty much why those little stun guns you see at the gun show are worthless. The taser, on the other hand, is quite a bit more effective. The taser has probes which stick into the skin, and allow the operator to apply another shock, if needed, from several feet away. It's the fear of subsequent shocks that makes people compliant.

[Guest Len]

Thanks Phantom!

I had heard about the mandatory contamination. Can't wait to cry in front of many grown men...

Keep me posted.

-L

Len, if you can wait just a bit on that training, we are in the process of ramping up for a contract with a large company that has selected our organization as a vendor/contractor to handle all of their training which will require that our instructors be certified at trainers in O.C and the A.S.P. baton as well as NRA/DOS firearms instructors. Obviously we have the NRA/DOS firearms instructor stuff down pat but the O.C. and A.S.P. training must be up to date soon. I have been certified for a PR-24 baton for years and used to train LEO's on that wonderful little piece of equipment but the A.S.P. is a different animal and the techniques are quite different. I'll get back to you in about a week on this if you wish. Oh BTW, though we don't strike you with the baton or shoot you with the pistol, patrol rifle or shotgun, contamination is manditory with the O.C. training.

---------------------------------

For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle... The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; And there was peace.