URGENT - POSSIBLE VETO ON PARKS BILL!!!

[rwt101]

Parks Bill -

State/National 'parks' are opening right as of today.

Cities and Counties can start to pass resolutions blocking local parks from carry starting today.

Local Parks which aren't subject to one of the above resolutions will be open to carry Sept 1st.

Long Guns -

Is law today, you can start to carry long guns tonight legally.

Senate amendment #3:

Good news!

I thought the National parks did not start until Feb of 2010?

Bob T

[Oh Shoot]

...

Is law today, you can start to carry long guns tonight legally.

..

You sure?

Version I just read shows July 1.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

I thought the National parks did not start until Feb of 2010?

Bob T

That is Federal Law.

- OS

[rwt101]

Right so State law will allow but Federal carry in National Parks would not start until Feb 2010.

Bob T

[JayC]

I thought the National parks did not start until Feb of 2010?

Bob T

You're right... but this was a key for National PArks in TN to be allowed... The current federal law on National Parks carry requires the state the park is in to allow carry in the National Parks...

So, this step was needed to allow carry in National Parks in Feb 2010...

You'll also note I quoted 'parks' trying to save from having to type out all the different 'areas' which are covered.

For example National Forests would go into effect today, there is a whole list of other sites which depending on the federal agency who runs them are open today, or will be open in Feb of 2010.

I'm going to call the LBL ranger office on Monday to confirm there are no Federal regulations/laws barring carry, but i think we should be able to carry there now, since out west it's state law that allows carry on NF run sites.

Edited June 13, 2009 by JayC

[JayC]

You sure?

Version I just read shows July 1.

- OS

The Legislature website can be confusing... Yes I'm sure...

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

You'll notice on May 26th of the House history where the House approved Senate Amendments 2+3 and the next day the bill was signed by the speaker.

Here is a link to Senate Amendment 2: (Amendment 3 is a non-issue in this discussion it only removes WMA's from the approved list.)

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0483.pdf

(a) For purposes of permitting municipalities or counties to elect to prohibit the carrying of handguns in parks pursuant to § 39-17-1311(d), this act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

( For purposes of it being lawful for persons authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, to carry in places owned or operated by the state or federal government that are designated in Section 1 of this act, this act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

© For purposes of it being lawful for persons authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, to carry in places owned or operated by municipalities or counties that are designated in Section 1 of this act, this act shall take effect on September 1, 2009.

Section 5b is the important one in this case, as you can see it states that carry in state/national areas defined in Section 1 (National Parks being the exception until feb 2010 because of Federal regulation) goes into effect the day the law is passed.

So with the Governor signing this bill into law, that means as of today State Parks are legal to carry in.

Edited June 13, 2009 by JayC

[Mike.357]

I was under the impression that state law about parks had no bearing on carry in a national park, In other words if I can carry while walking down the street in Gatlinburg, I could carry in the GSMNP. Did not matter if I could carry in a state park or not and that this does not take effect until sometime in February 2010

And I believe the long gun thing is July 1, not right now tonight.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Mike.357

[JayC]

I was under the impression that state law about parks had no bearing on carry in a national park, In other words if I can carry while walking down the street in Gatlinburg, I could carry in the GSMNP. Did nto matter if I could carry in a state park or not.

And I believe the long gun thing is July 1, not right now tonight.

It's my understanding the federal amendment to the credit bill will only allow carry in National Parks where not prohibited by state law...

Either way, hb0716 removes any roadblock to National Parks carry in TN once the Credit Card bill goes into effect in Feb of 2010.

As for the long gun bill, you're mistaken... Please see this post for the details:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/22583-urgent-possible-veto-parks-bill-13.html#post298235

Again, the long guns bill goes into effect today, not July 1st, not in 40 days.

[rwt101]

It is confusing. Also the road between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg is GSMNP. So traveling that 5 miles you really can't carry. I go to the Gatlinburg Sportsman Club and legally my hand gun should be locked?

Bob T

[JayC]

It is confusing. Also the road between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg is GSMNP. So traveling that 5 miles you really can't carry. I go to the Gatlinburg Sportsman Club and legally my hand gun should be locked?

Bob T

I agree it's confusing... but all of this mess ends in a few months... except local parks which we'll have to go back and remove the exception sometime in the future (hopefully next year)...

[Guest lci419]

As I read it (and this applies to TN state law only) on Parks Carry:

"This bill authorizes any Tennessee resident who is in immediate possession of a valid handgun carry permit that is issued to the resident to possess a handgun within the boundaries of any state park."

and applies to:

"(1) A public park, wildlife management area, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof; and

(2) Property designated by the federal government as a national park, forest, preserve, historic park, military park, trail, or recreation area to the extent permitted by federal law."

Remember, the Federal law for National Parks carry doesn't take effect until February 2010.

Furthermore:

"For purposes of it being lawful for persons possessing a valid handgun carry permit to carry in places owned or operated by municipalities or counties as described above, this bill would take effect on September 1, 2009. For all other purposes, the bill would take effect upon becoming a law."

As it reads to me, carry in local municipality and county parks does not take effect until September 1, 2009. However, state parks carry is effective immediately.

Finally, it appears that WMA's are still not valid for carry per:

"AMENDMENT #3 removes authorization for any person possessing a valid handgun carry permit to possess a handgun within or on a wildlife management area."

As for Long Gun Carry

"Handgun Permits - As introduced, permits handgun carry permit holders to possess or carry a loaded rifle, loaded shotgun, or loaded magazine or clip therefore while in a motor vehicle."

"that a person who has a valid handgun carry permit is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately owned motor vehicle and the weapon does not have ammunition in the chamber. The exception will also apply if the rifle or shotgun has ammunition in the chamber, which ammunition was inserted in the chamber for purposes of justifiable self defense."

Thus it reads to me that we (valid permit holders) can carry in vehicle as long as a round is not chambered, though we are exempted from penalties should it be necessary to use the long arm in a self defense situation (i.e. the STHF and you chamber a round to use in self defense).

Since there is no effective date attached, I would presume that it is effective immediately.

Restaurant Carry, still goes into effect as we all know on July 14th, and plans are being made to introduce legislation to stop any local municipalities from getting cute and trying to bypass state law to stop us.

Any thoughts, or have I captured the essence of what is going on here?

[Oh Shoot]

It's my understanding the federal amendment to the credit bill will only allow carry in National Parks where not prohibited by state law...

Correct.

But we had no statute prohibiting it to begin with.

- OS

[Mike.357]

Correct.

But we had no statute prohibiting it to begin with.

- OS

Right, thats what my miss use of the english language was trying to say.

Even without this parks bill signed today, come next February we would be able to carry in a national park.

i am still apprehensive about the long gun thing.

[Oh Shoot]

The Legislature website can be confusing... Yes I'm sure...

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

You'll notice on May 26th of the House history where the House approved Senate Amendments 2+3 and the next day the bill was signed by the speaker.

Here is a link to Senate Amendment 2: (Amendment 3 is a non-issue in this discussion it only removes WMA's from the approved list.)

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0483.pdf

Section 5b is the important one in this case, as you can see it states that carry in state/national areas defined in Section 1 (National Parks being the exception until feb 2010 because of Federal regulation) goes into effect the day the law is passed.

So with the Governor signing this bill into law, that means as of today State Parks are legal to carry in.

You seem to have gotten off track.

I'm talking about long guns in cars.

All of that is about the new handgun stuff.

But you are saying the loaded long gun statute is in effect now, right?

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

..

i am still apprehensive about the long gun thing.

Whatcha mean?

The Gov. signed it.

Only question (to me, anyway) to be totally clarified is when it takes effect.

Just remember, can't have one in the chamber.

- OS

Edited June 13, 2009 by OhShoot

[JayC]

You seem to have gotten off track.

I'm talking about long guns in cars.

All of that is about the new handgun stuff.

But you are saying the loaded long gun statute is in effect now, right?

- OS

Sorry this post shows the text from Senate Amendment 3 on the long guns carry bill...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/298235-post122.html

It also goes into effect today...

[JayC]

Nailed it...

Just remember some of the federal land will be allowed right away, since it's not disallowed by Federal law. Depends on the agency who controls the land in question.

As I read it (and this applies to TN state law only) on Parks Carry:

"This bill authorizes any Tennessee resident who is in immediate possession of a valid handgun carry permit that is issued to the resident to possess a handgun within the boundaries of any state park."

and applies to:

"(1) A public park, wildlife management area, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof; and

(2) Property designated by the federal government as a national park, forest, preserve, historic park, military park, trail, or recreation area to the extent permitted by federal law."

Remember, the Federal law for National Parks carry doesn't take effect until February 2010.

Furthermore:

"For purposes of it being lawful for persons possessing a valid handgun carry permit to carry in places owned or operated by municipalities or counties as described above, this bill would take effect on September 1, 2009. For all other purposes, the bill would take effect upon becoming a law."

As it reads to me, carry in local municipality and county parks does not take effect until September 1, 2009. However, state parks carry is effective immediately.

Finally, it appears that WMA's are still not valid for carry per:

"AMENDMENT #3 removes authorization for any person possessing a valid handgun carry permit to possess a handgun within or on a wildlife management area."

As for Long Gun Carry

"Handgun Permits - As introduced, permits handgun carry permit holders to possess or carry a loaded rifle, loaded shotgun, or loaded magazine or clip therefore while in a motor vehicle."

"that a person who has a valid handgun carry permit is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately owned motor vehicle and the weapon does not have ammunition in the chamber. The exception will also apply if the rifle or shotgun has ammunition in the chamber, which ammunition was inserted in the chamber for purposes of justifiable self defense."

Thus it reads to me that we (valid permit holders) can carry in vehicle as long as a round is not chambered, though we are exempted from penalties should it be necessary to use the long arm in a self defense situation (i.e. the STHF and you chamber a round to use in self defense).

Since there is no effective date attached, I would presume that it is effective immediately.

Restaurant Carry, still goes into effect as we all know on July 14th, and plans are being made to introduce legislation to stop any local municipalities from getting cute and trying to bypass state law to stop us.

Any thoughts, or have I captured the essence of what is going on here?

[bubbiesdad]

Sorry this post shows the text from Senate Amendment 3 on the long guns carry bill...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/298235-post122.html

It also goes into effect today...

I think it's July 1st.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/HB0390.pdf

[rwt101]

HEHE who's on first?

Bob T

[Tnscooter63]

(Finally, it appears that WMA's are still not valid for carry per:

"AMENDMENT #3 removes authorization for any person possessing a valid handgun carry permit to possess a handgun within or on a wildlife management area.")

Does it not say that it allows for municipalities or counties to decide for wma's?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Tnscooter63

[Guest HexHead]

While it might go into effect tomorrow, it'll definitely be in effect July 1. What's two more weeks in the scheme of things, really?

It'll probably take that long for the cops to hear about the change so they don't hassle you. LOLOLOL

[JayC]

I think it's July 1st.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/HB0390.pdf

I'm sorry but no, it's today, I even posted a link to the Senate Amendment text changing the date from July 1st to as soon as the bill becomes law.

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1307, is amended by adding the following new subsection (e):

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately-owned motor vehicle, and the rifle or shotgun does not have ammunition in the chamber. However, such a person does not violate this section by inserting ammunition into the chamber if the ammunition is inserted for purposes of justifiable self-defense pursuant to §§ 39-11-611 or 39-11-612.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

Both state parks carry AND long gun transport became effective when signed into law by the Governor today. Edited June 13, 2009 by JayC

[JayC]

While it might go into effect tomorrow, it'll definitely be in effect July 1. What's two more weeks in the scheme of things, really?

It'll probably take that long for the cops to hear about the change so they don't hassle you. LOLOLOL

Both state parks carry and long gun carry go into effect today when it was signed by the Governor. Senate Amendment 2 on the Parks bill, and Senate Amendment 3 on the long gun bill.

I've provided both the text and links to these amendments in several posts.

No need for somebody going to a state park or the range tomorrow to choose not exercise carry under these laws...

You're right it might take awhile for law enforcement to become aware of these new provisions... carry a copy of the law and amendment in your vehicle wouldn't hurt... I still hear police officers who think it's illegal to carry into Krogers because they sell beer.

[Oh Shoot]

I think it's July 1st.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/HB0390.pdf

That's obviously not the final bill that passed, BubbiesDad.

No mention of "no shell in chamber" and the "defense to having shell in chamber".

- OS

[Guest SomeGuy]

Ya, all need to thank John Harris.... he's been up there all day long. Btw, this week of lobbying for our cause had probably cost his personal practice thousands!

We don't agree all the time, but on this I give you a big +1. John has sacrificed a lot for all our liberties, and to build the TFA so it can continue the fight into perpetuity.