X-Treme OC: You Got The Cujones??

[The Rabbi]

OK, here I am with my new carry. How many of you OC enthusiasts want to carry like this?

[TGO David]

That's about right, but I usually cock my yarmulke to the side "Original Gangsta" style just so that the street cretin know I mean business and am ready to rumble.

[The Rabbi]

That's about right, but I usually cock my yarmulke to the side "Original Gangsta" style just so that the street cretin know I mean business and am ready to rumble.

You laugh. You've never visited Baltimore. Some of those Orthodox guys I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley...

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Bill, for the area in town in which you do business, I'd think that'd be de rigeur.

For the record, I routinely carry openly, but only in places I'm fairly certain won't get me hassled or scare the sheeple, and then only with a Para-Companion, not something such as an AR pistol.

I do, however, have a former Carry Permit student who owns a Kel-Tec PLR-16, for which he's having a leather shoulder holster custom made by the leathersmith at Guns & Leather. Knowing this guy, he'll carry it, frequently, and will probably have a loaded Beta Mag in the car for those extremely desperate times.

I am planning to write the State Attorney General, asking for clarification on what is permissable to be carried with a HCP. Currently, TCA defines a handgun as (parts not in quotations paraphrased) "pistol, revolver, or firearm of any description,"...which discharges a shot..."the barrel of which".."does not exceed 12 inches." Under that definition, the AOW's I build could be carried. Now, would I recommend someone strap a 12ga AOW on under their trench coat? No. But, reading the TCA literally, they should be able to keep one loaded nside their vehicle.

[TGO David]

You laugh. You've never visited Baltimore. Some of those Orthodox guys I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley...

I've been to Baltimore quite a few times, but never got jacked up by a man of the cloth.

[shaftbass]

never got jacked up by a man of the cloth.

You're also not an altar boy at a Catholic church

[Guest utarch00]

You're also not an altar boy at a Catholic church

Hey hey hey. I grew up in Baltimore, in the Catholic church and was an Alter boy.

Reef is right.

[shaftbass]

[Marswolf]

I'm betting that if you did carry that way, you'd get some looks but the public would figure you were OK. Might be different if you has MS 13 tattoos.

[The Rabbi]

I am planning to write the State Attorney General, asking for clarification on what is permissable to be carried with a HCP. Currently, TCA defines a handgun as (parts not in quotations paraphrased) "pistol, revolver, or firearm of any description,"...which discharges a shot..."the barrel of which".."does not exceed 12 inches." Under that definition, the AOW's I build could be carried. Now, would I recommend someone strap a 12ga AOW on under their trench coat? No. But, reading the TCA literally, they should be able to keep one loaded nside their vehicle.

Frank, you bring up a good question, and one people have asked me.

What is the law in regard to a Class 3 weapon on a carry permit? Can someone carry a Serbu Super Shorty, for example? Or a suppressed weapon?

[Guest ETS_Inc]

That is where the written law differs from the interperation of the law.

If you read the law, and interpret it literally, you could carry any firearm which discharges a shot, and has a barrel less than 12". That would include Serbu's Super Shorty, ETS 870 AOW's, SBR'd AR's, and even many full-auto weapons, including Uzi's and MP-5's.

Of course, we all know that that wasn't how the law was intended to be interperated, and that Officer John Q. Thinblueline isn't going to see it that way. The permit law was written to mean what most citizens would consider handguns, i.e. revolvers and semi-auto pistols. If you decided to carry an NFA weapon, and got stopped by the cops, you'd better be ready to spend A LOT of money and time in an attempt to keep yourself out of jail and get your NFA weapon back.

That's why I want to write the AG a letter, asking for clarification. An AR pistol is legal to carry, because it is a pistol according to BATFE. Well, the ETS 870 is a smooth-bore handgun, according to myself, the manufacturer, as well as BATFE, and fits the TCA definition of a handgun. As such, it should be just as legal to carry as an AR pistol.

[Cannon Fodder]

Any funny looks going to temple like that?

[The Rabbi]

Any funny looks going to temple like that?

Envy maybe.

I took both the rabbi and his mother in law shooting recently. Both had never done it before and both really enjoyed it. So I think they are long ways from being gun owners but every bit helps.

[molonlabetn]

I have no doubt that carrying like that would draw the ire of local LE in some (most) jurisdictions... possibly resulting in arrest in-lieu of a court decision on the legality of carrying a non-conventional 'pistol' (as ETS spoke about). At least, I would expect a lengthy conversation with an officer (or three). The only legal ramifications result from the ambiguity over the types of pistols covered by the HCP codes.

If a situation one was presented with made carrying a weapon of that nature practical... I expect that the authorities would be the least of the problems they might encounter!

[The Rabbi]

The law does not distinguish between "conventional" and "unconventional" pistols. Being arrested for not committing a crime would invite law suit. The one actual case I know of, a person of my acquaintance, a 60 year old Vietnam Vet who's had a stroke, was carrying his AK pistol in Ashland City. The deputy rode up and told him he couldn't do that. My friend asked why not. The gun is a pistol. It says "pistol" on the side of it. Deputy said, sheriff ain't never seen nothing like that. My friend said that wasn't his problem and the deputy went away.

Alas it is now academic for me as I have sold the gun this afternoon.

[molonlabetn]

The law does not distinguish between "conventional" and "unconventional" pistols. Being arrested for not committing a crime would invite law suit. The one actual case I know of, a person of my acquaintance, a 60 year old Vietnam Vet who's had a stroke, was carrying his AK pistol in Ashland City. The deputy rode up and told him he couldn't do that. My friend asked why not. The gun is a pistol. It says "pistol" on the side of it. Deputy said, sheriff ain't never seen nothing like that. My friend said that wasn't his problem and the deputy went away.

Alas it is now academic for me as I have sold the gun this afternoon.

I agree that there is no specific legal distinction between 'conventional' and 'unconventional' (which is the crux of the 'assault weapon' argument, as well)... but my reference was to the likely perception of it by some LEOs (being uninformed). Depending on the opinion of the individual officer (as in your acquaintance's case), it may be a non-issue, or it may require the hassle of justification. It shouldn't, but one would be naive to assume that it wouldn't draw attention... Same issue as any kind of OC, really, just more high-profile.

I would carry that way, given a circumstance which would make it reasonable (but, you knew that), such as hiking in the territory of dangerous predators, for example... but it's not practical for my specific needs and activities (on weekdays anyways ). It would also be an interesting form of activism, however, OCing that way...

I think that I might need to get a Krinkov pistol in 5.45x39, or perhaps a MAC-10, for just such an opportunity!

[Guest Phantom6]

Shorten up on that sling just a tad or put it in a shoulder rig and I'd say that you're good to go. I used to carry a Ruger Mini-14GB (AC 556) with a side folding stock in a shoulder rig. Fitted nicely under a sport coat.

[Guest bluecanary25]

I think asking for the AG's opinion is a more sensible option.

Being confrontational would be personally expensive.

It may also contribute to the preception that gun owners are a public danger.

Think of how some new media would sensationalize it, to promote anti-gun sentiment among the sheeple.

Personally, I would like more HCP holders to OC. When it becomes "common" to see citizens exercising their rights, maybe my wife will quit frowning at me when I OC!!!!

Rabbi, it was good to see you again, last week.

I still work with computers, just don't sell 'em no mo'.

Bluecanary25/George

[The Rabbi]

I think asking for the AG's opinion is a more sensible option.

Being confrontational would be personally expensive.

It may also contribute to the preception that gun owners are a public danger.

Think of how some new media would sensationalize it, to promote anti-gun sentiment among the sheeple.

Personally, I would like more HCP holders to OC. When it becomes "common" to see citizens exercising their rights, maybe my wife will quit frowning at me when I OC!!!!

Rabbi, it was good to see you again, last week.

I still work with computers, just don't sell 'em no mo'.

Bluecanary25/George

It was definitely an "in your face" move. I wouldn't recommend anyone carrying a gun like that just because carrying a gun is a good idea. It was meant to be confrontational.

I don't know what the AG will have to contribute to this, since the law is clear that open carry of handguns is ok, and these fit the definition of handguns.

And nice to see you too George. Welcome to the forum. Now sit back and enjoy the recoil.

[Tim Nunan]

I think asking for the AG's opinion is a more sensible option.

Bare in mind that the AG's opinion is just that... an opinion. Which of us has the time and money to be the test case in court?

[Smith]

If I saw you like that, I would just assume you finally snapped and shoot you myself!

[The Rabbi]

If I saw you like that, I would just assume you finally snapped and shoot you myself!

Yeah, you and what army, big boy?

[Guest crytes]

In the case of being harassed by LEs that would open their department up to law suits. The oficers perception is irrelivant, their job is to know and enforce the law. And besides the poin whats a gun like that weigh? I look a bit heavy for general carry.

Crytes

[The Rabbi]

In the case of being harassed by LEs that would open their department up to law suits. The oficers perception is irrelivant, their job is to know and enforce the law. And besides the poin whats a gun like that weigh? I look a bit heavy for general carry.

Crytes

Good point there.

Weight wasn't really an issue. What was an issue was that the gun wasn't secured so bending over to pick something up made the barrel bang against things. Also driving with it was awkward. You definitely weren't going to forget you had that on.

[Guest crytes]

The problem was the same whith an M4 you couldn't do anything with the thing straped on.

Crytes