Miranda rights for terrorists

[E4 No More]

Well, the British crown dubbed our founders as terrorists and tortured them and asserted they had no rights...just like you are doing now.

Again, simply stating someone is a terrorist doesn't make them a terrorist. You must have proof and this proof must be pondered by due process. Anything to the contrary is fascism and makes us just as bad as the people we call out enemies.

If understanding what is truth and what is fiction makes me a "numb-nut" then consider me the president of Numb-nutistan...

Too late! I already did.

[Guest KevinM]

Kevin...the boat to the island of those who care is leaving you might want to jump on.

Nope. I plan to defend The Republic from fascism until the day I take my last breath. To suggest that people can be deemed criminals or terrorists because some guy says so is absurd. Due process is the only thing that separates us from tyrannical government.

You have been refuted with facts so many times it's asinine. I understand you think a certain way, more than likely have been educated that way, and that's fine, but you really do not comprehend either the situation at hand or life in general.

I have seen no facts that contradict anything I have asserted. Some here seem to believe that simply stating something as fact makes it so. It does not. Educated in what way? To be able to read the Constitution and comprehend it? I think most here stopped reading after the "we"...skipped to the 2nd amendment and then quit. You have to read the ENTIRE DOCUMENT.

Have you?

I know you'll get angry at this and call me out and that's fine, but I think you are seriously misled and poorly overeducated.

This is simply wishful thinking on your part. You want to continue to live in a little bubble and that is fine...but it doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

[Guest KevinM]

Too late! I already did.

Thanks for proving my point.

[E4 No More]

How so? It's one thing to simply assert something....and another to actually elaborate and articulate a point.

How about this...your comment is a prime example of degradation of US education system.

See how silly it is to assert something without actually making a point?

SWJewellTN,

Read the Declaration of Indepedence. It seems that some here have not.

Believing that you get certain rights simply for being born on US soil and others don't is called FASCISM.

Note where it says "all men" and not "people born on this plot of land". Also note that the supreme court has ruled that indeed all people have certain inalienable rights. Ever heard of a guy name James Madison?

Also see:

Wong Wing v. U.S.

(1896)

Yick Wo v. Hopkins

(1886)

The Declaration of Independence came in relation to The Constitution of The United States when? The declaration was simply just that of the oppressed against their oppressors; not a statement for all peoples. For instance, they were not talking about the residents of France at the time, were they? They were talking about themselves.

Do you not know that The Supreme Court is made up of justices appointed by politicians not entirely for their political beliefs, and that there are dissenting opinions on every ruling that I can certainly recall? If Roe v Wade were to go in front of the court today the outcome would be different, so would that make the earlier decision wrong or the new decision wrong by your logic?

[Punisher84]

This is simply wishful thinking on your part. You want to continue to live in a little bubble and that is fine...but it doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

That's pretty much what I was saying to you. I think you're insane personally. You talk about defending things, but what are you doing to defend anything? Bitching on an internet forum? Great Kevin the defender of our liberties. Thank God for you buddy.

I'll stick by the people that have actually fought and died for something's opinions.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Punisher84

[Motasyco]

I'll stick by the people that have actually fought and died for something's opinions.

Perhaps if KevinM had served his country he would see things in a different light.

[Guest mustangdave]

Perhaps if KevinM had served his country he would see things in a different light.

I absolutely AGREE on this...way back in my teens (the 1970's) I was a whiney ass liberal anti everything cause it was the cool thing to be...GAWD!!! I even voted for Jimmy Carter. Then when liberal irresponsibility hit and I ran outa free money to go to liberal CALIFORNIA college. I joined the US Navy...what an EDUCATION I got in the REAL WORLD...I spent 20 years "serving" my country...and LOVED it.

[E4 No More]

I absolutely AGREE on this...way back in my teens (the 1970's) I was a whiney ass liberal anti everything cause it was the cool thing to be...GAWD!!! I even voted for Jimmy Carter. Then when liberal irresponsibility hit and I ran outa free money to go to liberal CALIFORNIA college. I joined the US Navy...what an EDUCATION I got in the REAL WORLD...I spent 20 years "serving" my country...and LOVED it.

And you didn't slit your wrists over that mistake?

[Punisher84]

Perhaps if KevinM had served his country he would see things in a different light.

See that's how I feel. People always say "So I'm not allowed to have an opinion if I haven't done A,B,or C?" Well here is my opinion on that.

Yea you are allowed to have an opinion, but it is not going to be held in the same regard as the people who have been there and done that.

My opinion on the field of nuclear medicine is equal to my experience in it. Zero.

My buddy put it extremely well yesterday, he said "It is everyone's right to speak freely, but that doesn't mean they are right."

[leroy]

.... You must have proof and this proof must be pondered by due process. ...

Blowing up the Twin Towers on 9/11 and other murderous acts around the globe constitute proof to most people of terrorist activity. Bin Lauen himself even testified on video; taking credit for the twin tower actions. Bearing arms against the US and killing U S citizens constitutes a hostile action im most people's minds. I do, however, understand that certian folks prefer not to believe certain objective truths and require more proof. 'Due Process" is not given in war by the judiciary-- never in civilized history has this been done. It is a fantisy of the pseudointellectuals who would hijack the objective truth of things for their own childish and foolish purposes that the judiciary should be given this power.

It is nothing more than a cynical power grab move by those who cannot get their silly ideas accepted by popular vote to take this position; or worse yet, a sinister move to subvert legitimate activities. The third possibility is that this is an exercise in pseudointellectual prattling by the childish.

In any of the cases ive stated above; there will never be enough proof to convince those who choose not to be convinced.

LEROY

[Guest mustangdave]

And you didn't slit your wrists over that mistake?

At 18 I didn't know any better...seriously how many high school graduates are politically savy...the same BS that worked on em last year to elect his Obamaness was in play in 1976....the "C" word...change

[Guest mustangdave]

See that's how I feel. People always say "So I'm not allowed to have an opinion if I haven't done A,B,or C?" Well here is my opinion on that.

Yea you are allowed to have an opinion, but it is not going to be held in the same regard as the people who have been there and done that.

My opinion on the field of nuclear medicine is equal to my experience in it. Zero.

My buddy put it extremely well yesterday, he said "It is everyone's right to speak freely, but that doesn't mean they are right."

And...I might add...well and properly informed

[Punisher84]

And...I might add...well and properly informed

Isn't that the truth?!

[E4 No More]

Perhaps if KevinM had served his country he would see things in a different light.

Don't we all form our opinions based on our experiences and training? I will not find fault for someone who has not served.

Kevin and his ilk think that the military is simply rounding up citizens of these countries, labeling them terrorist, and shipping them off to Guantanamo for the *****s & giggles of it. From appearances, he has no experience with what is going on, and is simply regurgitating what he's "heard" from "reliable sources" such as The New York Times. He has no experiences with reporters telling him to tell them what happened during the shooting of the suspect or they'll just make it up for you. He has no personal experience with a particular incident, and then reading a "news report" of said incident that presented only one side of what happened or that was total fiction. He takes a small percentage of nefarious conduct, (such as what happened at Abu Ghraib {SP?}), and applies that across to everyone. He has no idea of the process in which a terrorist is put through on the field of battle in order to be shipped-out as a terrorist.

Give him a break.

[E4 No More]

At 18 I didn't know any better...seriously how many high school graduates are politically savy...the same BS that worked on em last year to elect his Obamaness was in play in 1976....the "C" word...change

I'm with ya. I would have voted for him too if I was old enough to vote at the time. My first presidential election I voted for Ronnie Ray-gun, but I had a few years of Carter to learn from.

[Fallguy]

Let's try to keep comments about debate to the issues and not individuals.

Thanks....

[TGO David]

At 18 I didn't know any better...seriously how many high school graduates are politically savy...the same BS that worked on em last year to elect his Obamaness was in play in 1976....the "C" word...change

Sadly, because of the well-insulated world that so many live in these days, thanks due partially to how long some of our "younger" set can stay cocooned in the womb of academia for graduate and post-graduate studies, it is no longer just those fresh out of high school who operate on a vast supply of ignorance. Hence we have people well into their late twenties (and sometimes much further beyond) who subscribe to idiotic utopic theories of how the world ought to work and embrace that as their own little realities.

We've become a nation of over educated idiots.

[Good_Steward]

I'll stick by the people that have actually fought and died for something's opinions.

Agreed. It's easy for some people to play this game when they've never seen the dirty side of it.

[Tim Nunan]

Giving terrorists Miranda rights changes the mind set as well as the legal issue. They now become criminals instead of combat insurgents. This change is unnecessary as the military tribunals provided more defendent rights than many civilian courts/laws.

Terrorists are not covered in the Geneva Convention nor should they be.

[leroy]

Sadly, because of the well-insulated world that so many live in these days, thanks due partially to how long some of our "younger" set can stay cocooned in the womb of academia for graduate and post-graduate studies, it is no longer just those fresh out of high school who operate on a vast supply of ignorance. Hence we have people well into their late twenties (and sometimes much further beyond) who subscribe to idiotic utopic theories of how the world ought to work and embrace that as their own little realities.

We've become a nation of over educated idiots.

Well said!! This is a great truth. Never overlook the fact that some among us are educated well passed the ability to understand and apply that education with wisdom. Others simply choose not to understand. I believe it was George Carlin who said: "We posess great knowledge and have no understanding...".

Keep up the good work!!

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest SUNTZU]

I guess we'll all be getting some new neighbors when its all said and done. Now nobody try to keep up with the Jones'.

[Guest KevinM]

Perhaps if KevinM had served his country he would see things in a different light.

BWahahhaaa....playing the patriot card. How typical. Perhaps if you people read the Constitution you swore an oath to, I wouldn't have to spoon feed you. Getting paid/bribed into wearing a uniform doesn't magically turn you into some sort of super patriot. Fighting for the principles our nation was founded on...THAT is what makes a patriot.

The fact is...I serve my country each and every day.

Believe what you want and convince yourselves that those who have actually read the documents our nation was founded on are "uneducated"...it doesn't mean there is any merit to your point of view. Read the words of the founders. Read the founding documents. I would be willing to bet most here espousing that torture is ok and that locking people away for years without any sort of a trial (to PROVE that they are indeed guilty of a crime) have never read The Constitution.

What you people are espousing is EXACTLY what the founding fathers fought against. Simply reading the Declaration of Indepedence shows this quite clearly.

And to take all this a step further....I would be more than willing to debate this in depth over the phone to be uploaded to Youtube for all to hear...anyone game? It will only take a few minutes for people to hear who is familiar with our history and rule of law...and who merely THINKS they know what this country stands for.

America is a set of PRINCIPLES, not some borders drawn around a plot of dirt...

[Guest KevinM]

Well said!! This is a great truth. Never overlook the fact that some among us are educated well passed the ability to understand and apply that education with wisdom. Others simply choose not to understand. I believe it was George Carlin who said: "We posess great knowledge and have no understanding...".

Keep up the good work!!

Kind regards,

LEROY

It is "well said" only if you prefer rhetoric over actual substance...

[Guest KevinM]

I absolutely AGREE on this...way back in my teens (the 1970's) I was a whiney ass liberal anti everything cause it was the cool thing to be...GAWD!!! I even voted for Jimmy Carter. Then when liberal irresponsibility hit and I ran outa free money to go to liberal CALIFORNIA college. I joined the US Navy...what an EDUCATION I got in the REAL WORLD...I spent 20 years "serving" my country...and LOVED it.

So, you are suggesting Im some sort of liberal/communist because I believe tyranny isn't something that is compatible with the US Constitution? That's interesting...because communist nations have a very deep history of torturing people.

I'm not "anti everything", I am anti tyranny. Just like the people that wrote the Constitution and founded our nation on an explicit set of principles.

Oh, and torture...I am indeed anti torture. It goes against everything that sets our nation apart from nations like Cuba, China, Russia, etc...

[Guest mustangdave]

No... I am suggesting the for someone 29 years old you're extremely naive...as has been pointed out numerous times in at least this thread.