State / National Park Carry

[Guest Risky Ruger]

What is updated status on this? I am headed to Land Between the Lakes on the KY side and wonder if I could legally carry. I know KY allows TN licenses but what is current status on Parks both federal or state?

[Guest Risky Ruger]

Also, I have noticed a sign when entering LBL that says Guns are Prohibited, but it isn't as elaborate and "legal literature" as Ive seen at posted places.

[Guest Drewglynn]

Simplest answer would prolly be to call a ranger there and ask... Better safe than sorry... Good luck...

[Guest redbarron06]

LBL being federal does not have to post using the same restrictions as state and local under TCA. Also if I remimber correctly the national park does not go into effect until later this year or early next year.

From what I can find online LBL is a National Rec Area managed by the US Forrest Service which falls under Department of Agriculture.

A National Park falls under National Parks Service and is ran by the Department of the Interior.

The new law on US parks

( the new regulations--

(i) are under review by the administration; and

(ii) may be altered.

(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.

( Protecting the Right of Individuals to Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Now reading the new law I would say that no you can not carry in LBL if it is posted and it is not going to change when the new law takes effect. The law does not cover land managed by the Department of Agriculture.

Now that being said I think it is time for the critters to introduce a new bill so that land managed by the Dept of AG is no different then the land managed by Dept of the Int.

[DaveS]

The phone call I gave them prior to a recent camping trip ended in the word NO. However, I did not give them a reason to search my gear while there either!

[Guest bkelm18]

The status of TN House Bill 0716, the bill that would allow carry in TN state parks, has passed the house and senate and is awaiting the governor's signature. It was transmitted to the governor on the 1st of this month. So we should know within the next few days if he allows it to pass or vetoes it.

[Fallguy]

State park carry won't affect LBL, not a state park.

I don't believe National Park Carry will affect LBL, not a Federal Park.

As someone else said, LBL is under the control of the US Forestry Service. See their website

According to their General Rule 12: Possession, transportation or discharge of firearms, air guns, crossbows, bows and arrows or other weapons and explosives, including fireworks, is prohibited except authorized hunting equipment during set hunt dates.

[Guest HexHead]

LBL being federal does not have to post using the same restrictions as state and local under TCA. Also if I remimber correctly the national park does not go into effect until later this year or early next year.

National Parks goes into effect sometime in Feb. 2010, when the credit card bill it's attached to becomes effective.

[JayC]

I'm pretty sure LBL is a NATIONAL FOREST not a National Park. (As a matter of fact I'm sure LBL is part of the forest service not a national park) Big difference... National Forests appear to be covered by the parks carry bill, and should be allowed once that passes into law.

There is some confusion about carry in a NF that happens to also be a WMA... So we might need some clarification on that... once the bill becomes law.

[Fallguy]

I'm pretty sure LBL is a NATIONAL FOREST not a National Park. (As a matter of fact I'm sure LBL is part of the forest service not a national park) Big difference... National Forests appear to be covered by the parks carry bill, and should be allowed once that passes into law.

There is some confusion about carry in a NF that happens to also be a WMA... So we might need some clarification on that... once the bill becomes law.

I thought the National Parks bill only covered parks and WMA's and not National Forest?

I would be happy to be wrong....

[JayC]

I thought the National Parks bill only covered parks and WMA's and not National Forest?

I would be happy to be wrong....

Nope appears to be the exact opposite... HB0716 as transmitted to the Governor on June 1st... Includes 2 Senate Amendments 2&3...

This is Amendment #2:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0483.pdf

(J) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry such handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on property designated by the federal government as a national park, forest, preserve, historic park, military park, trail, or recreation area, to the extent permitted by federal law.

All that Amendment #3 does is remove WMAs from section 1i (because there is a WMAs bill working it's way through the legislature I guess).

So as I understand it... National Parks will be legal under TN law tomorrow (unless the Governor vetoes this bill) but we'll have to wait for Feb of 2010 for it to be legal under Federal law. So National Parks - Feb 2010.

National Forests generally follow the laws of the state it is within... So should be legal to carry in starting tomorrow.

The issue is what about NF's which also happen to be WMAs (since we're still waiting on the WMA bill to pass)... I'm not sure... It appears to me that the NF is first a NF and therefore would be legal to carry in, but that question has still not been answered.

Long and short, LBL should be legal to carry in starting tomorrow barring a veto, although you should contact the Ranger office and ask them to be certain, don't except a standard short no, ask them how HB0716 impacts the policy.

[Fallguy]

I thought we were talking about the amendment attached to the National Credit Card Bill, not TN State bill HB0716.

AFAIK the state bill simply says that carry is legal in certain places as per Federal Law.

However I thought the new Federal Law only covered Federal Parks and Federal WMAs and therefore will not help in LBL since it is neither.

Also, even though I haven't been able to find it myself, I keep hearing that TN has a law against carry in National Forrest.

[JayC]

I thought we were talking about the amendment attached to the National Credit Card Bill, not TN State bill HB0716.

AFAIK the state bill simply says that carry is legal in certain places as per Federal Law.

However I thought the new Federal Law only covered Federal Parks and Federal WMAs and therefore will not help in LBL since it is neither.

Also, even though I haven't been able to find it myself, I keep hearing that TN has a law against carry in National Forrest.

It's my understanding that National Forests are covered under state law not federal. You are allowed to carry in NF's out west, where as you can't carry in a NP anywhere.

My guess is that the public recreation language in 39-17-1311 is being used as the reason to prohibit...

Either way, HB0716 clearly repeals any such statute... since it says national forests and recreational areas are included.

[Fallguy]

It's my understanding that National Forests are covered under state law not federal. You are allowed to carry in NF's out west, where as you can't carry in a NP anywhere.

I agree

My guess is that the public recreation language in 39-17-1311 is being used as the reason to prohibit...

Very possible

Either way, HB0716 clearly repeals any such statute... since it says national forests and recreational areas are included.

Yep

[Tim Nunan]

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.

Legislative Action Committee

11 Jun 2009

The Tennessee House has moved to recall the parks bill from the Governor's desk.

http://tnga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=1639

Time code 3 hours 9 minutes

Rep. Nicely made a motion and it was approved to recall the parks bill HB0716 from the governor's desk.

Senate will go into session at 3:00 p.m. today and will likely address this issue this afternoon.

Efforts seem to be underway - in fear of a threat of a 2nd veto - to amend the previously passed parks legislation to strip out local parks. The veto threat likely is not just parks but all other firearms bills including confidentiality, wildlife management areas, etc.

This is evidence of clear intimidation by the governor's office to abuse his authority and discretion with the veto and may be some form of retaliation for the veto override on the restaurants.

The question is - does the legislature have the time and the votes to override multiple vetoes? Is the legislature willing to come back for a special session if the governor is not truthful and is just buying time so that he vetoes them anyway after session?

Call your legislators and let them hear from you. They need to know if they have the public support for overrides or if they need to just cut the best deal they can with the governor and come back another day on the issues that he stops.

The question is whether enough Tennesseans and enough gun owners can raise enough horning honking, emails and phone calls to push these bills past the governor or whether in fact we lack the votes and must compromise.

John Harris

Executive Director

[Fallguy]

It has already been recalled....

After thinking on it a bit and after getting over my intial reaction of being upset...I have to say since it seems so many local parks were going to opt out anyway....cutting local parks from the bill, to get state parks and other bills doesn't seem so bad.

I also sort of hated making an exception in 39-17-1314 for local parks, I was worried it could open the door for some larger local goverments to start asking for exemptions on other areas.

Maybe with carry in state parks legal and there are no incidents, the legislator will come back and make local park carry legal as well with no opt out part.....maybe....

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/22583-urgent-possible-veto-parks-bill.html

[Tim Nunan]

It has already been recalled....

After thinking on it a bit and after getting over my intial reaction of being upset...I have to say since it seems so many local parks were going to opt out anyway....cutting local parks from the bill, to get state parks and other bills doesn't seem so bad.

I also sort of hated making an exception in 39-17-1314 for local parks, I was worried it could open the door for some larger local goverments to start asking for exemptions on other areas.

Maybe with carry in state parks legal and there are no incidents, the legislator will come back and make local park carry legal as well with no opt out part.....maybe....

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/22583-urgent-possible-veto-parks-bill.html

I agree, drop the local parks part of the bill and keep the state parks. I don't see the House supporting a veto override on this one; they might even make it an opt-in instead of the opt-out. We can come back for the local parks later.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

but wasnt part of this deal done so we wouldnt have to face any more gun bill vetos?

[Guest redbarron06]

Possession, transportation or discharge of firearms, air guns, crossbows, bows and arrows or other weapons and explosives, including fireworks, is prohibited except authorized hunting equipment during set hunt dates.

I am not sure how rule number 12 contridicts the fact that they both a gun and bow range up there?

Any way LBL is a National Recreaction Area. Not national park or national forest. It is managed my Forestry Service.

[Guest HexHead]

Governor signed the Parks bill today!

[JayC]

I am not sure how rule number 12 contridicts the fact that they both a gun and bow range up there?

Any way LBL is a National Recreaction Area. Not national park or national forest. It is managed my Forestry Service.

You're right I should have stated, sites managed by the Forestry Service, vs calling it a National Forest... either way I believe it has been state law up until this point preventing us from carrying at LBL not a Federal law or regulation since hunting is allowed at LBL.

[jaysouth]

New point about traversing the LBL on existing hard surface roads:

Does the rule about "federally funded through-ways" apply here.

That is the rule applied to legalize carry in a vehicle on the Natchez Trace.

In LBL, since the property is federally owned, all the through-ways are federally funded. Or is that too hasty an application of common sense to fed regulations?

[Fallguy]

First AFAIK carry on the Natchez Trace Parkway is NOT legal. At least that is what the park rangers have told me. This is because the roadway itself is part of the National Park.

As far as LBL, isn't a state hwy that runs though the middle of it? If so, then I think, carry inside your car while on the state hwy would be legal, but if you got off the state hwy you would be subject to the laws that apply to LBL.

[netmindr]

Here is a link to the bill.

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

It's pretty difficult to figure out the final wording but if you follow through the ammendments you can put it together. What's pretty interesting is that House ammendment 2 requires at least 1 shooting range to be constructed within each state park.

Subject to funds being appropriated in the general appropriations

act, the commissioner of environment and conservation shall construct at least one (1)

shooting range within each state park.

See Senate ammendment 2 Section 1-I and 1-J for a list of areas that are included.

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1311(

(1), is amended by

adding the following new subdivisions thereto:

(I) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry such handgun

pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on a public park, wildlife management area,

natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other

similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or

instrumentality thereof, except as otherwise provided in subsection (d);

(J) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry such handgun

pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on property designated by the federal

government as a national park, forest, preserve, historic park, military park, trail, or

recreation area, to the extent permitted by federal law.

Notice the language "or other similar public place". Although ammendment 3 removes "wildlife management area". All state and federal land is legal as of the signing of the bill. Local parks take effect September 1 to allow local governments time to opt-out.

[justincase]

all this is so dam confusing i think the lawyers are probably even confused on the subject as the wording is specific and vague at the same time ...