Torture Poll

[Guest mustangdave]

War is uncivilized by its nature. I get tired of liberals trying to make it civilized, and then wonder why we lose. Perhaps it is they that we should send into combat first.

+1....its easy to rant about it when you're clean and dry and safe

[canadienmike]

then actually go to "war" and let's get over this bit of playing pattycake and start carpetbombing entire cities in Iraq into rubble and let loose the dogs of war and be done with it and let's do to Iraq what we did to Germany--with the exception of the Marshall Plan--let them rebuild themselves...and send a message to any who would be our enemy--don't mess with us, or all of your cities will end up like the ones we just obliterated....

war is called war for a reason--it is ugly, and we should not fight it often...

So you are all for the carpet bombing of thousands of innocent men, women and children, but take exception to the fact that we waterboard some combatants that we picked up on the battlefield? That makes a lot of sense

How about sending the message that if you are a terrorist and we pick you up on the battlefield, we're going to make your life a little unpleasant? Considering that these terrorists hide behind women and children I don't think the threat of us killing those women and children are going to change their minds a whole lot. Knowing that they themselves might be in for some rough times might.

[Guest gunslinger707]

whatever it take's to protect us !!!!!!! YOU damn sure won't get prefrential treatment if you get taken prisoner.Just ask the survivor's of "Hamoi Hilton" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Dean_JC78]

Depends on what you define torture as. What they do to us is torture and in no way is it ever justified. What we do to them is pretty tame in comparison and I do believe it is justified.

That is it in a nutshell. If I lived in 3rd world country and had no food to eat or money and lived under some sticks then you could waterboard me 5 times a day if you gave me nice meals, a nice bed, and a roof over my head.

Torture I would define as something that created long term damage. What the idiot liberals are calling torture does not even come close. Personally I think they should be given a taste of what some real torture would be... perhaps they could ask their buddy Castro, Chavez, Putin, or other sleeze who really know what they are talking about.

[Guest Dean_JC78]

we can't claim to be a civilized society and conduct torture at the same time./

Or slaughter innocent children but Abortion is still allowed here too even though murder is illegal.

[Guest justme]

So you are all for the carpet bombing of thousands of innocent men, women and children, but take exception to the fact that we waterboard some combatants that we picked up on the battlefield? That makes a lot of sense

I'm all for either fighting this illegal war in Iraq like a real war or pulling out and admitting that it is the farce that it is.

Iraq is not winnable--and neither is Afghanistan....The Afghans have beaten every nation who ever invaded them--and yet we think that because we are America--we are just going to win...it isn't that easy.

You can't fight a nation whose citizens who are not afraid to sacrifice themselves and die....I mean when one of them will strap explosives to his body and blow himself up....and they have always had that mentality...and we think we're going to change it?

How about sending the message that if you are a terrorist and we pick you up on the battlefield, we're going to make your life a little unpleasant? Considering that these terrorists hide behind women and children I don't think the threat of us killing those women and children are going to change their minds a whole lot. Knowing that they themselves might be in for some rough times might.

How about not try to claim we are a civilized nation and then turn around and torture--and then whine, cry and moan when the same thing happens to our people...you do remember the 5 BW mercs who were killed in Falluja yes? We cried, ranted and hissed vengeance over that--bemoaned the brutality of it--and then turn around and torture our prisoners...

Considering that we now torture--that throws the Geneva Convention on the treatment of war prisoners out the window--meaning when we finally do get into a major war with a real country like China or North Korea--the soldiers and mercs who are captured should expect no mercy--because the Chinese will expect none from us...

[Guest justme]

Whatever it takes to ensure our freedoms. Its easy to say that we are a more advanced and civil nation, we aren't. We as a nation are young, but extremely influential and powerful (1 of 2 true superpowers left). Our men and women fighting a war we did not start are not given any quarter and are tortured beyond anything that we ever do to them. Our torture is mostly psychological, theirs is more physical i.e...rape (both men and women), body part removal, killing, so on and so forth. We do not burn the bodies in the streets like they do and then put them up for display after dragging them through the streets. You can not fight animals with kid gloves and high ideas, you have to fight them like animals.

did you hear the sound of the Geneva Convention being tossed out the window....I certainly did...

[Guest justme]

Dresden? Berlin? It's a different kind of war, it's going to be fought a different way.

no...it was war...and war is meant to be bloody, it is meant to be ugly. We should treat this exactly like we did when we fought the Germans and the Japanese, or not fight it at all.

As for the "Keystroke Guevera" remark, that was equating Che as being a revolutionary, not as a communist. I was referencing that you seem to preach change constantly, but your only devotion to your ideals is to pump out rant after rant online, not through real world actions.

That's not an out and out insult, just how it looks from where I'm sitting.

actually I have contacted my Congressman numerous times. I have contacted my state legislators numerous times--on firearms legislation mostly...am I going to picket the soldiers who have no choice but to go or be sent to Leavenworth--no. Do I firmly dislike the things this government is doing in my name--absolutely.

And yes, Che was a Revolutionary...I naturally assumed you viewed him only as an alleged Communist. Sorry.

[poak]

no...it was war...and war is meant to be bloody, it is meant to be ugly. We should treat this exactly like we did when we fought the Germans and the Japanese, or not fight it at all.

War is still ugly, still bloody. Go take a Hummvee ride through Afghanistan or Iraq if you think otherwise...

To think we should be fighting an enemy with no state, in a war with no front lines, in the same way we fought WWII 75yrs ago is ignorant at best.

[Glenn]

So would the enemy rather be shot, bombed or napalmed in the field than taken prisoner, treated better 99% of the time than they live every day, and waterboarded once or twice? I would suspect they would chose the waterboarding. These people would cut your children's throat in a second. I have no sympathy for them. If someone breaks into my house I will shoot them. If someone wants to destroy my country they deserve no better.

Glenn

[Guest sstouder]

to me its a question of civil responsibility. Is it more civil to torture those that take part in trying to tear down our way of life with the result of that being a safer nation? Or to treat those terrorists in a civil manor and hope we can drug them to into talking or whatever with the result being a less safe nation? I for one am not interested in sitting in a room congratulating each other about how superior and civil we are as people and a nation and then have my family killed like those on 911.

[Guest KevinM]

War is still ugly, still bloody. Go take a Hummvee ride through Afghanistan or Iraq if you think otherwise...

To think we should be fighting an enemy with no state, in a war with no front lines, in the same way we fought WWII 75yrs ago is ignorant at best.

Disappointing. I figured with your avatar you would understand. The Brits have employed torture in The Republic of Ireland for the better part of 200 years.

I don't need to take a humvee ride through some foreign country to understand that our rule of law doesn't condone torture. All I need to do is read the Founding documents.

An overgrown federal government that is willing to torture people is far more frightening than some 3rd world caveman 5,000+ miles away who can't find America on a map...

[Guest mustangdave]

Torture for a Liberal would be another Bush or Reagan in charge...

[Guest KevinM]

These people would cut your children's throat in a second.

All of them? Wow... How do you know?

[Guest KevinM]

Torture for a Liberal would be another Bush or Reagan in charge...

That would be torture for anyone.

Bush was the biggest liberal to occupy the white house before Obama...

[poak]

Disappointing. I figured with your avatar you would understand. The Brits have employed torture in The Republic of Ireland for the better part of 200 years.

You don't think the IRA has ever employed torture on adversaries loyal to the crown? Interesting...

[Punisher84]

You don't think the IRA has ever employed torture on adversaries loyal to the crown? Interesting...

HUZZAH!

[Guest Astra900]

You don't think the IRA has ever employed torture on adversaries loyal to the crown? Interesting...

Well just because they are doing it doesn't make it right.

Maybe once the Amerikan public can accept torture we can move on to abductions for extortion, prisoner exchange or ransom. We can justify it by saying "Well:shrug: They do it

When we lower ourselves to the point of ignoring our own standards in order to further our own ends, we lose our right to claim to have a better way of life. It's all or nothing. If you're going to allow one thing, you may as well allow anything. Which is what's wrong with this country now. We had as close to perfect guide line as can be had; Now it's lost it's true value in translation.

[poak]

Well just because they are doing it doesn't make it right.

That I can agree with.

However, as far as waterboarding even being considered torture compared to what the other side is doing, well I'd say that's up for debate.

[Guest KevinM]

You don't think the IRA has ever employed torture on adversaries loyal to the crown? Interesting...

What's interesting? I don't remember mentioning the IRA/PIRA or in anyway endorsing them. In any case, them torturing loyalists or Brits doesn't make it ok for loyalists or Brits to torture suspected members it The Ra. Unless you are a moral relativist...like the libs.

However, as far as waterboarding even being considered torture compared to what the other side is doing, well I'd say that's up for debate.

It isn't up for debate. It is torture. Denying oxygen to the brain for hours at a time is torture. But it isn't the only method that has been deployed. Its just what is one paper. At Abu Ghraib, they BEAT MEN TO DEATH. They did much more that strip them down and make them form pyramids. Rumsfeld and Obama BOTH agree that certain pictures taken of tortured suspects should not be released to the public Now I wonder why that is? If they are guilty...put them on trial. That's the way its done in a society with any sense of morals.

Edited June 11, 2009 by KevinM

[Parrothead]

Torture is NEVER EVER justified. EVER. It goes against EVERYTHING this nation stands for...and yes, waterboarding is torture. If you don't believe me I will gladly prove it to you.

so we cant make one terrorist "uncomfortable" to save thousands of lives. If it was your family you would feel different

Oh and take if from me..some of our "special forces" take on more in training than these criminals do. Go graduate from army ranger school and get back to me

[poak]

It isn't up for debate. It is torture.

Cool, I'll take note to that... where would I be without the guiding light of a golden moralist such as yourself...

[Parrothead]

At Abu Ghraib, they BEAT MEN TO DEATH. They did much more that strip them down and make them form pyramids. Rumsfeld and Obama BOTH agree that certain pictures taken of tortured suspects should not be released to the public Now I wonder why that is? If they are guilty...put them on trial. That's the way its done in a society with any sense of morals.

Link please

[Guest SUNTZU]

[Guest sstouder]

saying its all or nothing is just setting up people for failure. Its saying hey if you step over that line by one inch you've lost your a horrible person doesnt matter why you stepped over that line, you should be man enough to figure out a different way. I dont buy that for a second you cant just put everything into a neat little box, there are circumstances, exceptions, variants to almost every rule and not realising that is just plain ignorant.