Torture Poll

[Guest sstouder]

Question: is torture sometimes justifide?

Nashville News, Tennessee News and Local Weather from WSMV 4 News current results 67% yes, 28% no

[Guest bkelm18]

Depends on what you define torture as. What they do to us is torture and in no way is it ever justified. What we do to them is pretty tame in comparison and I do believe it is justified.

[Smith]

Depends on what you define torture as. What they do to us is torture and in no way is it ever justified. What we do to them is pretty tame in comparison and I do believe it is justified.

Agreed. When you say torture most folks think of racks in medieval castles. That kinda thing, which is what they do to our guys, is not acceptable and one reason they need to be exterminated. What we do is hardly torture.

[Guest KevinM]

Torture is NEVER EVER justified. EVER. It goes against EVERYTHING this nation stands for...and yes, waterboarding is torture. If you don't believe me I will gladly prove it to you.

[Good_Steward]

Anyone who really rails aginst some of the techniques we used must not have a family. Someone take that persons wife or kids, give them a person that knows where they are, and the things they would physically do to that person to find his family would make Dick Cheney weak at the knees.

[Chucktshoes]

As a nation, we are all culpable for the actions of our government. If we we want to rise again to a position of true leadership and respect amongst the nations of the world we must act accordingly. Our actions at home and abroad must be above reproach and to be perfectly honest, it isn't as easy to keep things secret as it used to be, so the best policy is not to do it at all. Plus, our government considers it torture when an enemy nation waterboards our boys, So lets not be hypocrites.

"We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home." Edward R. Murrow

[Guest tlondon]

"torture" can and has saved American lives. If "torture" needs to be used to learn of a pending attack I say use whatever means necessary

[Guest justme]

Anyone who really rails aginst some of the techniques we used must not have a family. Someone take that persons wife or kids, give them a person that knows where they are, and the things they would physically do to that person to find his family would make Dick Cheney weak at the knees.

torture is wrong--you would not want it done to your family.

that said, you are also right--under the right conditions, mankind is all, without exception capable of the most heinous of things--and man proves that every day.

Edited June 9, 2009 by justme

[Guest justme]

"torture" can and has saved American lives. If "torture" needs to be used to learn of a pending attack I say use whatever means necessary

if they can do it to them--they can just as easily do it to any American they so designate as "an enemy combatant"...

[Guest kdpate]

Torture is sitting on the couch and being forced to watch Lifetime Movie network with your wife......:screwy:

[Good_Steward]

if they can do it to them--they can just as easily do it to any American they so designate as "an enemy combatant"...

And they do.

[Guest justme]

And they do.

and the people who commit the torture should all be jailed in gitmo in the general population for the rest of their lives....

[Punisher84]

If you gave me a choice between waterboarding and what the terrorists do to our guys...hand me my rag and get the bucket bubba.

[Guest justme]

when does it stop?

when we do these things and then dare to call ourselves a "civilized society"?

it makes us no better than the enemy....we bemoan when people who intentionally put themselves in the line of fire find themselves kidnapped and tortured by the enemy and used as pawns in the ultimate game of chess...and then we do it ourselves.

[Punisher84]

when does it stop?

when we do these things and then dare to call ourselves a "civilized society"?

it makes us no better than the enemy....we bemoan when people who intentionally put themselves in the line of fire find themselves kidnapped and tortured by the enemy and used as pawns in the ultimate game of chess...and then we do it ourselves.

This is honestly one of the topics that while I disagree with you (strongly) I do respect your opinion on it and you have a very strong conviction about it.

I look at it as a moral quandry. We're supposed to be the good guys right? So we shouldn't kill or torture. The problem is this puts us at a disadvantage to what our enemies will do. When I think of waterboarding and some of the techniques we have used it brings to mind the long established "anti-hero".

Follow me if you will, everyone loves Captain America and Superman. They are clean, they are noble, they stand for truth, justice, all that good stuff. That's great, but we don't live in that world. We live in a gray world. That's why Batman, The Punisher, Wolverine, etc are big turns offs to some people. They are more realistic in the sense of their natures.

Not trying to compare torture to comic books, but if you look at human nature, our morals, our ethics, they are all subjective. I believe there are some things that MUST be done for the greater good and it takes a certain type of person to do them. Basically I believe these people walk the edge of the abyss, but through restraint, do not fall in.

I think there is a difference in what we do and what the terrorists do. I think that is not debatable as far as techniques go. Where we find debate in this, is in our souls. What would we do and what could we live with?

It is a moral and philosophical question that is not likely to be answered on a forum.

[Guest KevinM]

Anyone who really rails aginst some of the techniques we used must not have a family. Someone take that persons wife or kids, give them a person that knows where they are, and the things they would physically do to that person to find his family would make Dick Cheney weak at the knees.

I have an ENORMOUS family but some extreme hypothetical that has yet to take place doesn't change the principles our nation was founded on. And even IF it were to take place...doesn't make it right.

[Guest KevinM]

If you gave me a choice between waterboarding and what the terrorists do to our guys...hand me my rag and get the bucket bubba.

And? What if someone gave you a choice beteen communism and socialism? Hand me a rag and a bucket and I'll have you begging me to stop the torture...

[Guest KevinM]

And they do.

Right, so lets piss away everything our nations stands for in response.

[Punisher84]

And? What if someone gave you a choice beteen communism and socialism? Hand me a rag and a bucket and I'll have you begging me to stop the torture...

Opinions vary chief.

[Guest KevinM]

"torture" can and has saved American lives. If "torture" needs to be used to learn of a pending attack I say use whatever means necessary

Then you are helping to destroy everything our nations stands for.

Can you name an American whose life was saved by torturing someone?

"whatever means necessary"

Hum...sounds familiar. Are you a member of the Nation of Islam, by chance?

[Punisher84]

Can you name an American whose life was saved by torturing someone?

He might not be able to give you a name, but I bet there are quite a few people who could.

I understand your conviction, but I think you're being naive.

[Good_Steward]

I have an ENORMOUS family but some extreme hypothetical that has yet to take place doesn't change the principles our nation was founded on. And even IF it were to take place...doesn't make it right.

Maybe hypothetical for you, but there were a ton of people who had family in the twin towers. If there could have been information prior to the attacks attained through interrogation, don't you think those families would have, in retrospect, had a problem with one person being waterboarded to save 3,000+ people. I understand that it's all hypothetical as far as that goes, but what if that information could save thousands of lives in the future? War is hell, and if you intend to engage in war, be prepared to pay hell. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

I also understand everyone has a strong opinion on this issue, and that's mine.

[Good_Steward]

Then you are helping to destroy everything our nations stands for.

Can you name an American whose life was saved by torturing someone?

"whatever means necessary"

Hum...sounds familiar. Are you a member of the Nation of Islam, by chance?

I'm not, but whatever means necessary is the only thing that the terrorists seem to understand. I'm pretty sure we can't "nice" information out of 'em.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

The needs of the many sometimes outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

[Guest justme]

This is honestly one of the topics that while I disagree with you (strongly) I do respect your opinion on it and you have a very strong conviction about it.

And I respect your opinion--I just don't think we should be trying to proclaim that we are a champion of civil rights when we are conducting torture. We're either one or the other.

I look at it as a moral quandry. We're supposed to be the good guys right? So we shouldn't kill or torture. The problem is this puts us at a disadvantage to what our enemies will do. When I think of waterboarding and some of the techniques we have used it brings to mind the long established "anti-hero".

We are supposed to be the good guys--that is true. It is also a moral quandry--that is also true. The thing with killing--killing can be justified to an extent--someone breaks into your home at 3am and tries to harm your elderly parents or your wife or kids--few would hesitate to draw. The thing is--when you start knocking off knee caps, or breaking bones, or using electric shocks, or continued, prolonged physical beating just to find out if there are any other "bad guys" outside or waiting down the block for the signal to come in and help clean out the house or finish off the family--there is no call for that.

Follow me if you will, everyone loves Captain America and Superman. They are clean, they are noble, they stand for truth, justice, all that good stuff. That's great, but we don't live in that world. We live in a gray world. That's why Batman, The Punisher, Wolverine, etc are big turns offs to some people. They are more realistic in the sense of their natures.

Not really--we live in a world of right and wrong--man created the moral grey areas himself. Man is what he is--and by nature, mankind is a sadistic, evil minded creation that will, if given enough time eventually destroy all life from this planet. Man created the moral grey areas--but originally there was right, and there was wrong....but now it is about what we can sacrifice for the "greater good"--we really don't need that prohibition against torture--let's just get rid of the 8th Amendment...

Not trying to compare torture to comic books, but if you look at human nature, our morals, our ethics, they are all subjective. I believe there are some things that MUST be done for the greater good and it takes a certain type of person to do them. Basically I believe these people walk the edge of the abyss, but through restraint, do not fall in.

there are some things that should not be done--and justifying the shredding of everything this nation stands for in the name of national security is abhorrent. You can be a free nation, or you can be a secure nation that has sold its collective soul in the name of some false sense of security that is just an illusion. You can not have both and expect to keep either for any length of time--look at what we have already lost. I mean the recent MIAC report classified even returning members of the military as possible "extremists"--and you are a possible "terrorist" now if you believe in the Constitution, or liberty...how much more can we afford to lose and still have any semblance of freedom left to us? How much of our collective soul can we sell before we have nothing left worth fighting for?

Where we find debate in this, is in our souls. What would we do and what could we live with?

As for what we can live with--it depends on the situation we find ourselves in--I readily admit, that given the right motivation we are all without exception capable of things that we now call heinous. It is a moral quandry--I agree--but to do it, and then try to act righteous and perfect and claim that we are a shining beacon for civil rights is pathetic beyond words--and that is exactly what this government claims.....why don't they simply admit they torture and leave no doubt about it?

I think there is a difference in what we do and what the terrorists do. I think that is not debatable as far as techniques go.

as for this--and don't take what I say wrong...BUT when the Russians invaded Afghanistan in 1979 we began arming the Mujaheddin in the early 1980s, and that includes Bin laden. The thing is--their tactics have not changed..they were "freedom fighters" when they fought our proxy war against the Russians--but they are "terrorists" now? Same techniques, same tactics, same people for the most part--sons, grandsons of those who fought the Russians, some of them ARE people who actually spent years fighting the Russians...so what has changed? We armed them and called them "freedom fighters" when they served our cause, and now we call them "terrorists"?

As for their techniques--I really don't see a difference. You can split hairs all day long--but when the day is done--torture is torture whether it is an Arab that does it to someone they just kidnapped in Afghanistan or an American does it to a captured enemy...the goal is the same--obtain information regardless of the cost--the tactics are essentially the same too--physical abuse, mental abuse, use of dogs, use of lights, chemical interrogation...sleep deprivation...there are not too many techniques that either side has not used during this so-called war.

a few years ago I read an account by an individual by the name of Khaled El-Masri who is of Lebanese descent but is a German national who had been kidnapped at a Macedonian border crossing while he was on vacation and handed over to the Americans and flown presumably to Afghanistan for interrogation...after about 6 weeks they realized they had an innocent person and turned him loose in Albania in the middle of the night--while he was in captivity he is supposed to have said that another detainee actually died under interrogation while he was being held and tortured...so they are using more than just water boarding...

when this man tried to sue the US in federal court, the government said "oops your honor--if you allow this to go forward this case will jeopardize national security" The government used a "state secrets" clause to stop the lawsuit and prior to that--when they realized they had the wrong person--were said to have asked the German government to help quash the story and keep it quiet...The court, in response to the government move to quash the suit--said "case dismissed".....the government then kidnapped a Canadian and was said to have sent him to Syria--he stated that the Syrians did torture him while he was in custody...

I can get you this stories if you would like me to find them--and will post from several sources if you would like. And while I admit that I don't believe every thing the news puts out--I do this.

how much more can we as a nation lose? These things should not be done in our name.

It is a moral and philosophical question that is not likely to be answered on a forum.

agree 100%

Edited June 9, 2009 by justme