7.62 Nagant

[EMB145]

I'm not sure if I should post this in the C&R section or here, but being a reloading question, I will put it here.

I'm a big fan of history so I naturally aquire surplus military firearms. My most recent is a 7.62 Nagant revolver. I've read where people are useing .32-20 cases with the Lee die set and having sucess. My question is if anyone locally has tried this? I will purchase a few boxes of factory ammo, but I've read that the Lee die set will not work on factory cases. What are you folks with these Nagant revolvers doing for ammo? I want to shoot the revolver, but would like to do it economically.

[Guest goomba]

i read about this just last night, I dont have the link, but I googled it and found a page where the author goes into detail about what he did do reload using the 32-30 case.

hope this helps

[ttocswob]

First, TGO disclaimer, if you haven't read: read-before-discussing-any-information-about-reloading

Now, I'm not a reloader, and don't play one on TV, but here's a couple of links FYI:

M1895 Nagant Revolver Reloading Project

Real Guns - Handloading the Weird, the 7.63x38R Nagant

[Guest darth_jbell]

I'm not sure if I should post this in the C&R section or here, but being a reloading question, I will put it here.

I'm a big fan of history so I naturally aquire surplus military firearms. My most recent is a 7.62 Nagant revolver. I've read where people are useing .32-20 cases with the Lee die set and having sucess. My question is if anyone locally has tried this? I will purchase a few boxes of factory ammo, but I've read that the Lee die set will not work on factory cases. What are you folks with these Nagant revolvers doing for ammo? I want to shoot the revolver, but would like to do it economically.

I know this was a few years ago, but did you ever make any progress on it? I'm always looking for more info on this round.

[gjohnsoniv]

I have one too, and I would be interested in reloading for it. They say you can also use .32 longs in it or get a conversion cylinder.

[Guest darth_jbell]

I've got a conversion cylinder for .32 ACP, but it doesn't work superbly w/every revolver (won't always rotate).

When I get back to my notes I may publish some of my findings with the custom RCBS dies I got (with the appropriate legal disclaimers, of course).

:-)

[gjohnsoniv]

Awesome.

[Clod Stomper]

I have one too, and I would be interested in reloading for it. They say you can also use .32 longs in it or get a conversion cylinder.

I've tried the .32 Longs. The cases swell terribly. It's not a good fit.

Factory ammo isn't terribly uncommon, so I just use that. It isn't something I shoot very often anyway.

Have no experience handloading them, but I intend to try soon.

Will

[ttocswob]

Wow...since my comment above, I've gotten into reloading, and even attempted the Nagant. I have the Lee dies, a Lee .311 93 gr. bullet mold, and used it to load factory Hot Shot/Priv Partisan cases.

The Lee dies seriously oversize, and often crush, the factory cases. I now leave sizing until the last step; yes, size the loaded round, then only just enough to allow insertion of the round into the cylinder.

Case trimming is a problem. Once fired cases are too long and bind the cylinder. Lee doesn't make a 38mm trim gauge. My homemade version doesn't work very well.

I have loaded a .311 90 grain LRN over 4.0 grains of Unique, averaged 980 FPS. Same bullet over 3.2 grains of Bullseye averaged 916 FPS, with some keyholing observed - possibly because of 1) bullets too hard 2) lighter load 3) bullet too small from sizing in the case.

See reloading disclaimer above, YMMV!

[gjohnsoniv]

Shouldn't the round be pushing 1,000 plus FPS? I could have sworn that the mil load was really hot.

[ttocswob]

In the Unique string, 5 of 10 rounds were over 1000 FPS. Compared to factory Priv Partisan 98 grain bullet at an anemic 650 FPS, my loads were pretty good. I'm not pushing the envelope any further until I resolve the aforementioned case crushing/case trimming issues.

[gjohnsoniv]

In the Unique string, 5 of 10 rounds were over 1000 FPS. Compared to factory Priv Partisan 98 grain bullet at an anemic 650 FPS, my loads were pretty good. I'm not pushing the envelope any further until I resolve the aforementioned case crushing/case trimming issues.

Oh ok. Wow that Privi is really anemic.

[Guest darth_jbell]

First, TGO disclaimer, if you haven't read: read-before-discussing-any-information-about-reloading

Now, I'm not a reloader, and don't play one on TV, but here's a couple of links FYI:

M1895 Nagant Revolver Reloading Project

Real Guns - Handloading the Weird, the 7.63x38R Nagant

Glad you made it over to the Dark side of reloading!

Did you check out that Real Guns article and use any of their data? Their recipe is the only one I've had any good luck with. The 'alternative' cartridges (32 Long, etc) have never worked well for me. The 32-20 dies were no good at all. I didn't see any success until I started using the RCBS dies. It's going to take me a long time to make up the cost of that purchase w/boxes of ammo, but I couldn't just give up.

:-)

[ttocswob]

I referenced both of those linked articles; but developed my loads from H&R .32 mag data, backed up by this article from Bob Shell.

I'm itching to try Joe's/Real Guns H110 load, but haven't had the time, or the nerve, yet.

I started reloading on the dark side; 9x18 from 9mm Luger cases, and the Nagant. I did graduate to .38/.357 just to regain my sanity.

P.S. I just bought a few boxes of the Russian surplus from Aim. I'm going to chron a couple cylinders of these to see if the Ruskie stuff really is all that.

Edited August 3, 2012 by ttocswob

[Jonnin]

to trim the case, you can easily make one of the lee hand trimmers for a rilfe work, cut the "length" bar to get close then grind it a little at a time until it trims enough off. 303 brit & 7.65 mauser or something in 7.62 should be about the right case diameter so all you have to do is get the bar the right length. If the trimmer diameter is too big you can use sandpaper and the drill to reduce it just a little bit as well. I did that on my makarov trimmer so it would fit into 9mms more easily without a size before trim approach.

Not sure what to say about the cases, anyone try 327 mag?

Edited August 3, 2012 by Jonnin

[Guest darth_jbell]

to trim the case, you can easily make one of the lee hand trimmers for a rilfe work, cut the "length" bar to get close then grind it a little at a time until it trims enough off. 303 brit & 7.65 mauser or something in 7.62 should be about the right case diameter so all you have to do is get the bar the right length. If the trimmer diameter is too big you can use sandpaper and the drill to reduce it just a little bit as well. I did that on my makarov trimmer so it would fit into 9mms more easily without a size before trim approach.

Not sure what to say about the cases, anyone try 327 mag?

The Lee 7.62 x 39 guide rod is 1.528 I think. That'd be pretty close to get you started.

I guess getting the cases trimmed the same length is the only good way to get a consistent roll crimp, but I don't know if my Nagnt cases will last long enough to expand that much. What are y'all experiencing?

[ttocswob]

The big problem with case length is that it's already as long as the cylinder - any case stretching will bind up the action. Twice fired cases will need trimming. Also, crimps will cause splits in the thin brass, although I don't worry much about small splits above the bullet. Crimp is not really necessary anyway, since the bullet is seated so deep in the brass.

Couple of other issues:

The Lee shellholder doesn't work with the factory brass. A RCBS #1 is a better fit.

The Lee trimmer shellholder is a misfit, too.

Lee seater die doesn't seat the bullet deep enough without modification.

I've loaded 150 rounds or so, but still a work in progress for me.

Edited August 3, 2012 by ttocswob

[Guest darth_jbell]

Good info. I'm coming up on my second reloads for the Hotshot cases. I'll have to see hoe much they've expanded.

[Guest darth_jbell]

Good info. I'm coming up on my second reloads for the Hotshot cases. I'll have to see hoe much they've expanded.

That's "how" much not "hoe" much. Dang auto fill...

[ttocswob]

Well, got inspired yesterday evening.

Took the Nagant, ProChrono, and 4 flavors of ammo to the range. Fired 14 rounds of each:

Ammo______________Average______Std Dev

Priv Partisan _________645_________11.53___ slow but consistent

Russian surplus_______935_________24.03___ it ain't all that, no chips.

90LRN/Bullseye 3.2____923_________17.15___ purty good

90LRN/Unique 4.0_____992_________42.87___ inconsistent, read on.

The Unique velocities ranged from 912 to 1079! These were 2nd loading, had to "urge" the cylinder into position, might explain the variation.

The Bullseye is pretty consistent. I may increase that load a little bit, and soft cast some bullets to deal with the keyholing issue. Didn't notice any last night, but I was mainly trying not to hit the chronograph.

Power Pistol has possibilities, too...

Interestingly enough, the powder charges above are the same as I use for 9x18 Makarov, and yield similar velocities with a lighter bullet.

On the trimming issue: I have a 7.62x39 trim gauge, I may use it as a model to fab one from a bolt. 1 mm shorter should be perfect. And I may dremel a 9mm shellholder to fit, it's real close...I can squeeze the Nagant brass in, but it leaves a mark...on my thumb, too.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ttocswob

[ttocswob]

Here’s my latest procedure for reloading the 7.62x38mm Nagant; using Lee dies, factory Priv Partisan/Hot Shot brass, and a cast 90g LRN sized to .311, Alox lubed.

(This will blow the mind of reloading purists, as I've re-purposed every die in the kit, and broken all the "rules" in the process.)

Deprime with a universal decapper die, or any large rifle die.

Use your Nagant cylinder for initial sizing. Once you find a case that doesn’t fit, use that case to determine the tightest chamber – then lube that case, and press it in! Most of mine either fit, or pressed in with finger pressure. A few required a light rap on the bench top.

Trim any cases which extend beyond the cylinder face. I finally came up with a workable trim gauge and shellholder for my Lee trimmer. A few filestrokes on a 9mm shellholder did the trick.

Anneal cases. I use the oven method: chill a flat metal pan, stand cases upright, fill pan with 3/8 to 1/2 inch of cold water, then broil for 20 minutes or so. Allow cases to cool, adding more cold water if needed. Don’t quench the mouth of the case, this defeats the purpose – leave ‘em standing to slowly cool.

Prime cases. Use powder thru expander die, as little as necessary to seat bullet. (I only split one out of 50, using too much expander die.) Charge case.

Now it gets interesting. I used the sizer/decapper as a bullet seater/crimp die. How’s that for outside-the-box thinking? Remove decapper pin, screw die down onto a factory round, then another half-turn or so. There will be a gap of ¼ inch or so between shellplate and die. Then, with the round still in the die, reinstall the decapper pin upside down in contact with the nose of the bullet. (I went slightly deeper.) Now to the new reloads - more case lube (I forgot!) and seat/crimp bullet.

Last, remove the bullet seater from the crimp die, and use the die to roll the case mouth in enough to clear the forcing cone.

I did 50 rounds last night, three different loads. One split case, and a couple of bullets were loose in the case, until I readjusted sizer/decapper/seater/crimp die as above.

Range/chrono upcoming. Stay tuned…

Edited August 14, 2012 by ttocswob