Carry Question

[Parrothead]

I work at a company that states no guns or weapons on property in the employee handbook. This is NOT posted at any of the entrances. I would NOT want to carry on the clock or anything of the like. I am just curious IF i could leave my gun in the truck while i am at work. They do have the right to search a vehicle if they have a reason to belive you have a prohibited substance in the vehicle. But in my case they would not have reason to belive that.

Opinions welcome....thanks guys. And no i dont work at a post office or any other federal/state job.

[Guest slothful1]

Not being posted means you wouldn't be breaking the law... but they'd still be free to fire you if they found out.

[Wingshooter]

Is this a company owned vehicle or your personal vehicle? Is it a normal parking lot, or do vehicle searches occur?

If it is your personal truck in an average parking lot, I would just leave it locked up and hidden. That's maybe not the best legal advice (?), but that's what I would do.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Batman

[Parrothead]

Is this a company owned vehicle or your personal vehicle? Is it a normal parking lot, or do vehicle searches occur?

If it is your personal truck in an average parking lot, I would just leave it locked up and hidden. That's maybe not the best legal advice (?), but that's what I would do.

It is a personal truck and there has NEVER been a parking lot search in the ten years the policy has been in place. Its a international company and i think it is in there for some of the "rougher" area's of the country. I just wondered what your opinions were.

Also, would they have the right to search a locked box inside the vehicle?

[Guest redbarron06]

If it is not posted then legaly there is not any recourse they have other than they can fire you. In TN they do not need a reason for that. Now the only thing that stands out is that you say it is an international company. I work down the street from the Nissan plant in Smyrna and they are considered a forign trade zone. They have big signes all over the fence that say no weapons per federal law. If you work in a place similure to that then it might be a different issue.

[Smith]

There are a few threads that cover this in great detail. Mostly concerning the court cases in OK IIRC. I can't find it but I thought the ruling was that your vehicle is personal property even on someone else's property and thus protected under the constitution from unreasonable search and seizure? Of course we are in a no fault work state so they could fire you iregardless unless there are contract issues. It gets complicated my friend.

[Parrothead]

Thanks for all the help guys. I like this site already. I assume it is pretty addicting

[Guest Revelator]

Unreasonable search and seizure would apply only to the government and not a private employer. In the Oklahoma case, the employers tried to use an OSHA provision but the court ruled that guns locked up in cars did not fall under the type of danger that statute was designed to protect against. The employers also argued it was an unconstitutional taking of property, but the court said no to that too. Here in Tennessee this year, the legislature introduced bills prohibiting employers from prohibiting carry permit holders from keeping locked, out of sight firearms in their cars while on company property. I don't know what the bill's status is.

[Smith]

Unreasonable search and seizure would apply only to the government and not a private employer. In the Oklahoma case, the employers tried to use an OSHA provision but the court ruled that guns locked up in cars did not fall under the type of danger that statute was designed to protect against. The employers also argued it was an unconstitutional taking of property, but the court said no to that too. Here in Tennessee this year, the legislature introduced bills prohibiting employers from prohibiting carry permit holders from keeping locked, out of sight firearms in their cars while on company property. I don't know what the bill's status is.

and there you go! I knew I could get it all mixed up.

[Guest archerdr1]

someone at my work brought up a question. The building and parking lot that I am in is in Georgia. By law they cannot restrict me from carrying there, but GA is a right to work state, so could they not still fire me if they wanted to?

[Guest SUNTZU]

I thought if you have a bolted down locked box in your vehicle that it couldn't be searched by anyone short of being armed with a warrant? Can you clear up my misconception or lack thereof, Mr. Stegall?

[Guest Revelator]

I thought if you have a bolted down locked box in your vehicle that it couldn't be searched by anyone short of being armed with a warrant? Can you clear up my misconception or lack thereof, Mr. Stegall?

Generally that's true, although with vehicles there are all kinds of warrantless search exceptions. All I was saying before is that if it's your employer who wants to search, you don't get to use the 4th Amendment. You can tell them no, but as been said it'll probably cost you your job.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Thanks, I knew that about employer searches, especially in TN.

[Mike.357]

my only advice to the OP would be that if you decide to have the gun in your car do not tell anyone. Don't tell the first person, not you best friend at work, not your best friend anywhere. Tell no one period, and do not discuss guns with people you work with.

[Guest 270win]

Don't tell any friends at work or anyone period that you keep a gun in your car in the company parking lot. Even if your company can't fire you for keeping one in your glovebox in say Oklahoma or Georgia, they'll come up with some other garbage reason to fire you because most places are 'at will' employment. I wouldn't bring Guns and Ammo magazines to work either. If anything, just say that you hunt and leave it at that. I leave my politics at home and concentrate on work when i go to work.

[cadillacdude1975]

dont ask, dont tell.

[Guest bhoneycutt]

I work for a company that doesn't allow possession of firearms in the parking lot. I did not know the person but have been told that one time someone had their car broken into at work and their firearm was stolen. When the employee marked that it was stolen on the police report which was also provided to my works security the employee was fired for having a gun in their car. Just something to think about.

[mdmoseley]

I work for a company that doesn't allow possession of firearms in the parking lot. I did not know the person but have been told that one time someone had their car broken into at work and their firearm was stolen. When the employee marked that it was stolen on the police report which was also provided to my works security the employee was fired for having a gun in their car. Just something to think about.

That would be 100% correct. I know the guy who was fired personally. Can't wait until TN passes a parking lot bill to get rid of BS like that.

[hkusp40cal]

Its about time TN follows FL on this issue.

NRA-ILA :: Freedom Restored In Florida!

Under the new law, employers and business owners:

• Cannot search a vehicle for a firearm;
  
• Cannot ask an employee whether he/she has a firearm or a Right-to-Carry license;
  
• Cannot condition employment on whether an applicant has a Right-to-Carry license;
  
• Cannot prohibit a worker from legally keeping a firearm locked in a vehicle;
  
• Cannot fire or discriminate against an employee who has a Right-to-Carry license, owns a firearm, stores a firearm locked in a vehicle or uses a firearm lawfully in self-defense;
  
• Cannot order a customer to leave a parking lot for having a firearm locked in a vehicle.
  

[JayC]

I work at a company that states no guns or weapons on property in the employee handbook. This is NOT posted at any of the entrances. I would NOT want to carry on the clock or anything of the like. I am just curious IF i could leave my gun in the truck while i am at work. They do have the right to search a vehicle if they have a reason to belive you have a prohibited substance in the vehicle. But in my case they would not have reason to belive that.

Opinions welcome....thanks guys. And no i dont work at a post office or any other federal/state job.

If this company is in TN, then you could not be charged with criminal trespass if they found a handgun in your vehicle. But as many have said, they could and probably would fire you.

There are very limited conditions where a private company can force you to submit to a search (or a search of your vehicle)... Simply put they can not force you to allow them to search your car, you can always refuse and leave instead.... Again they will likely fire you for refusing the search, but they can't force you to allow the search.

As people have stated, if they do force the search it would not be a civil rights violation (because generally speaking civil rights violations can only be committed by the government or entities working on behalf of the government) but it likely would be a lawsuit looking for a place to happen...

As a general rule, private businesses do not have the right to force you to submit to a search, you must consent to any search, otherwise they are likely breaking the law.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

my only advice to the OP would be that if you decide to have the gun in your car do not tell anyone. Don't tell the first person, not you best friend at work, not your best friend anywhere. Tell no one period, and do not discuss guns with people you work with.

I agree with this completely. Your employer is going to need a damn good reason to justify searching your car. If you don't give them a reason, then they won't do it. "most" employers are not going to want the potential legal hassle of searching an employees car. If you don't talk about guns, don't email about guns, don't pick fights at work etc... then you probably won't have any issue.

[Punisher84]

Where I do security work it's in the employee manual you sign off on saying you read it and agree to it. Basically, if it's company property and I want in, I'm getting in.

If it's your car and I ask to search there are 2 options:

1. I can have PC and search the vehicle or have PD assist with the search if they agree with the PC.

2. You can consent to a search or refuse. If you refuse you will more than likely be fired.

I think most places are like this.

[wjh2657]

I can't believe somebody is asking this question. You are going to work for a company, you are bound by their rules. If you feel the rules are illegal or unfair, don't work for the company! There is no consitutional right for any of us to work for any company! If emphasizing your 2dA rights is that important to you, I think you better acquire independent wealth real quick or learn to go without eating. My rights are important to me, but feeding my family and keeping my job ranked up there in first place! I spent 30 years on active duty in the Marine Corps and every base I was ever on was a "gun free" zone, unless you were on duty and in the work area. I then spent 18 years teaching High School and you know the rules there. I'm retired now, but I still follow "group" rules wherever I am.

[Parrothead]

I can't believe somebody is asking this question. You are going to work for a company, you are bound by their rules. If you feel the rules are illegal or unfair, don't work for the company! There is no consitutional right for any of us to work for any company! If emphasizing your 2dA rights is that important to you, I think you better acquire independent wealth real quick or learn to go without eating. My rights are important to me, but feeding my family and keeping my job ranked up there in first place! I spent 30 years on active duty in the Marine Corps and every base I was ever on was a "gun free" zone, unless you were on duty and in the work area. I then spent 18 years teaching High School and you know the rules there. I'm retired now, but I still follow "group" rules wherever I am.

sorry i asked. i realize that i am new here and i am also new to having my permit. I just wanted to verify the rules in this situation. I am not trying to go against the rules or challenge company policy. I had heard of a bill that was presented which would make these laws illegal in TN (has they are in many other states.) Just trying to learn and get the rules right

[BBill_TN]

It was a valid question. No harm in bringing something up again. It just becomes a very personal decision if you want to break company rules and risk being fired. Probably not the best economy to go looking for a job right now.

Where I work, there are no signs and if I happened to be a visitor or guest I could carry with no worry, but since I signed the employee rule book I choose to not have a firearm in my car. I am sure that other employees have chosen in the past to do the opposite, and I respect that decision; unfortunately I cannot justify it right now.

I am more fortunate than some in that I do not have bad neighborhoods to go through on the way to work; I have no "imminent" threats, and I live close enough to work that I can swing by the house to get my firearm before going out to eat, shopping, etc. If these conditions were different, I might have to take a harder look at carrying to/from work.

My company is based in GA and I have considered asking how the new GA laws are working out about firearms/cars in those locations, but if most of them are like us (we have private parking lot) then the GA law would not apply in that case either.

Hopefully in a few years we will have the legislation in TN to protect us at work as well.

Edited June 10, 2009 by BBill_TN