Nashville Metro Council trying to keep HCP holders out of Restaurants

[Guest Jamie]

"The new state law does allow restaurant and bar owners to ban guns from their establishments, but some feel a proliferation of "No Guns" signs would cause tourists to think the city is full of firearms."

No not really because they are probably from one of hte 37 states that allow carry in resturants.

And hopefully will decide not to spend their tourist dollars in any establishment that doesn't allow a permitted person to carry... which in turn might makes some of those pesky signs disappear.

Which also makes being forced to put up a sign or lose your beer license even more of a losing proposition, I would think.

Nope, sorry... I just don't see where the Metro Council members or Metro business owners who were pushing for a forced ban have really thought this one through very well.

5 will get ya 10 that within a year of putting 'em up, most places that bother with signs banning carry will have yanked 'em right back down, due to lost revenue.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Jamie

[ngoeser59]

I just got this response from Jim Gotto with the Council.....

I do not support the efforts to ban guns from establishments that serve alcohol.

Jim

[Guest crotalus01]

"The new state law does allow restaurant and bar owners to ban guns from their establishments, but some feel a proliferation of "No Guns" signs would cause tourists to think the city is full of firearms."

This is America, EVERY city is full of guns...

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I just got this response from Jim Gotto with the Council.....

I do not support the efforts to ban guns from establishments that serve alcohol.

Jim

Im still getting responses back too... funny how most waited on Metro Legals Opinion before they decided.

[K191145]

Just heard on channel 2 news that the councilman who was sponsering the bill has decided to drop it.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

We shall see... I hope so, and hope this isnt a stallign tactic. This is the politically smart move after the politically stupid move they made before.

[K191145]

We shall see... I hope so, and hope this isnt a stallign tactic. This is the politically smart move after the politically stupid move they made before.

From channel 5's web site.

Councilman Will Withdrawal Push To Override State Gun Law - NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee -

Councilman Will Withdrawal Push To Override State Gun Law

Posted: June 9, 2009 05:05 PM CDT

Video Gallery

<1>

Councilman Will Withdrawal Push To Override State Gun Law

1:30

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A group of Metro Council leaders thought they found a legal loophole to override the passed gun bill, but it turned out an attorney told them it was illegal.

[Fallguy]

We shall see... I hope so, and hope this isnt a stallign tactic. This is the politically smart move after the politically stupid move they made before.

I can understand your skepticism Hex...I mean Glockmeister... but surely after all of the news reports of it being illegal and being pulled Tygard and the whole council would have to know how big of fools they would look to go ahead with it.

But I grant you, looking like fools didn't stop them from trying in the first place.

[K191145]

Sorry, I should have read Hex's post first before I posted mine.

Just got too exicted.

[JayC]

I can understand your skepticism Hex...I mean Glockmeister... but surely after all of the news reports of it being illegal and being pulled Tygard and the whole council would have to know how big of fools they would look to go ahead with it.

But I grant you, looking like fools didn't stop them from trying in the first place.

Yes because nobody told them before they submitted the bill it was likely illegal (quoting them the state code) and they didn't just go ahead anyway without first seeking information from the council's legal team? No that would foolish wouldn't it? Oh wait that's exactly what they did, my bad.

[Guest HexHead]

Yes because nobody told them before they submitted the bill it was likely illegal (quoting them the state code) and they didn't just go ahead anyway without first seeking information from the council's legal team? No that would foolish wouldn't it? Oh wait that's exactly what they did, my bad.

Here's why they thought they could get away with it....

Despite that fact, Nashville attorney Adam Dread believes he has found a loophole that can keep guns out of Nashville bars and restaurants.

Dread, a former Metro Council member, former member of Metro’s Beer Board and partner in the law firm of Durham & Dread, is contacting members of the Metro Council and encouraging them to take advantage of the loophole as quickly as possible.

Dread is pointing to Tennessee Codes Annotated section 57-5-06(a), which defines the licensing powers of cities, towns, and Class B counties, those with metropolitan governments.

"but cities, towns and Class B counties may impose additional restrictions, fixing zones and territories and provide hours of opening and closing and such other rules and regulations as will promote public health, morals and safety as they may by ordinance provide."

What that means, according to Dread, is that Metro Nashville, and for that matter any other city, town, or class B county, can pass an ordinance that would instruct its Beer Board not to grant licenses to establishments that serve beer and allow guns. They could not, however, pass an ordinance that would prohibit establishments that only serve wine and/or liquor because those entities are regulated by the state.

Dread, who says he is a gun owner, a pro-Second Amendment Republican and former restaurateur, told NashvillePost.com, “I can’t think of anything more dangerous for the citizens of Nashville, our police officers, or tourism, than guns in bars. Guns and alcohol don’t mix, period.â€

“I’m not worried about the licensed gun owner,†Dread added. “I’m worried about the drunk idiot next to him that tries to take his gun. In a tourism-based economy, the last thing you want is people to think is that everyone in Nashville is walking around with a gun. Don’t think that liability insurance for restaurants isn’t going to go through the roof, and they are not going to eat that cost alone.â€

For his part, Nashville attorney Will Cheek, who leads the alcoholic beverage practice group for Bone McAllester Norton and provides licensing and regulatory compliance advice to restaurants, hotels, bars and clubs, thinks that Dread is onto something.

“It is a great idea,†Cheek told NashvillePost.com. “I am almost positive this would survive a judicial test.â€

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Sorry, but I have lobbied several bills thru the council... they can be very sneaky. However with them saying they are pulling it and it getting all this media I'd say were in good shape....

Btw Jason Mumpower thought all was good to go a few months back too... ???

[Fallguy]

Very good points....

.....and I'm usually a pessimist. Just trying positive thinking for a change...lol

[Wakethor]

Section 1. That Section 7.08.130 of the Metropolitan Code is hereby amended by adding the following provisions as subsection D.:

"D. To bring to cause, or allow to be brought a firearm onto the premises of any establishment with a retailer's "on-sale" permit. This prohibition shall not apply to on-duty law enforcement officers."

How would this affect those establishments who hire their own armed security?? Off-duty would not even be allowed then.

[JayC]

How would this affect those establishments who hire their own armed security?? Off-duty would not even be allowed then.

If it had passed it not only would have banned armed security... it would have banned owners from having firearms in the establishment to protect themselves...

Also, no more armed deposit service, or having ATMs in the establishment...

It was a bad idea, and not well thought out....

[Guest djack41]

I would not be celebrating. The preemption issue is far from over.

[titan14]

Nashville drops bid to keep guns out of restaurants

Published June 10th, 2009

The Tennessean is reporting that a city government proposal to ban guns in Nashville bars and restaurants that serve beer will be withdrawn because it would probably would be ruled illegal.

A group of Nashville council members wanted to thwart a new state law allowing handgun carry permit holders to take their weapons into bars and restaurants in Tennessee. But lawyers have determined the state's firearms statute supersedes the city's beer permit ordinance.

"These things happen, and I think based on the interest from both sides, there's a lot of misconceptions," Councilman Charlie Tygard said. "It would have been good to put experts in the room, have a good debate and a panel discussion … and then be able to make an informed decision. Unless something changes, that's not going to happen."

[Guest HexHead]

It was a bad idea, and not well thought out....

Knee-jerk reactions, especially by liberals, rarely are. They just let their emotions run wild.

[Guest HexHead]

I would not be celebrating. The preemption issue is far from over.

What do you foresee they have up their sleeve?

[BigPoppa]

Nashville drops bid to keep guns out of bars - WKRN, Nashville, Tennessee News, Weather, and Sports |

[G27]

"bars"

Always with bias...

[Guest Ghostrider]

I live in District 17 and wrote to Sandra Moore last week.

She has yet to grace me with any form of reply.

When are the council elections again?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

all i know is its time for Megan Barry and Jerry Maynard to hit the road. Charlie Tygard actually got caught up in something he didnt know anything about... so IMHO its time for him to go too. Tim Garretts seems to be our only friend in the council, at least on this issue. We shall see on the parks bill.

[Guest HexHead]

all i know is its time for Megan Barry and Jerry Maynard to hit the road. Charlie Tygard actually got caught up in something he didnt know anything about... so IMHO its time for him to go too. Tim Garretts seems to be our only friend in the council, at least on this issue. We shall see on the parks bill.

When I spoke with Tygard, he really struck me as not having a dog in the fight. He wasn't impassioned about this one way or the other. As he said, he has been traditionally pro-business in the council, and I think he got caught up in the whole "not wanting to scare the tourists" crap, thinking it would hurt the business owners.

IMO, Metro's wayyyyyy too concerned about tourists, at the expense of it's residents. I really don't give a flip about Tootsie's.

My only real gripe about Tygard, and it applies to many other council members, is "what part of term limits don't you understand?" Serving two terms as a district councilman, then as an at-large councilman, then back to the district again ad nauseam, only shows arrogance and complete disregard for the whole concept.

Edited June 10, 2009 by HexHead

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Hex, maybe you should stop delaying and run for city council yourself.